Congratulations to all the Israeli LC fans

[Womanfromaroom]

mirka,
don't know about that. I always try to remain polite, but still, I am entitled to an opinion, am I not?
Thanks.

[minibi]

Everyone,
It feels like this thread is taking a bad turn…

Rodin – What you wrote had a lot of truth in it, and as we have already seen in quotes - a lot of untruth…
I agree that some of the Israeli folks that came here, came for the sole reason of getting tickets, and had no intention of sticking around. In that process, SOME have posted unnecessary messages, and didn't bother to take a moment and look for what they came for.
Many others on the other hand, did take the time, found what they came for without making a fuss, and did show gratitude later on.

The problem as I see it is with the way you wrote your criticism, which felt offensive, even to me, as someone who agreed with some of what you wrote. You attacked Israelis as a people, and not the folks that actually did what you complained about.
If I understand correctly, this is not the first time this sort of thing happens with a pre-sale, and saying it is an "Israeli thing" is offensive.

Attacking Womanfromaroom for pointing this out, is just uncalled for.

I do hope we can get past this, before any permanent damage is done.
I personally wish to stay in this forum.
I first came across it a few months ago, when the Ramat-Gan show was first announced and I have been following it since - I love it.

I do wish you will someday come here to visit. Perhaps you will find it is not what you thought.
If you do, I will be more than happy to help out, give you pointers or even show you around Tel-Aviv. You and Mirka both.
You are more than welcome here.

[brightnow]

...You and Mirka both.

I wouldn't bunch Rodin with mirka. Rodin is just using this as an excuse to attack the Israelis whom he hates (as evident from his earlier posts). mirka truly cares about the forum, her complaint is sincere.

[eyaleyal2001]

Exatcly.

Rodin,

I didn't like your post because of form, not substance.
I agree that we have seen some rude posts these past couple of days, but if you want to constructively and effectively criticize behavior you should:
1. Address individuals, not groups
2. Make it about the action, not the person (part of the problem with addressing a group with criticism is that it automatically becomes criticism of the people, not just their action)
3. Find something positive to say along with your criticism, it helps people listen to you (in this case, "welcome to the forum" is the natural positive thing to say)
3. Be very careful to get your facts straight (I've seen several heartfelt "thank you" messages from Israeli fans since ticket sales has been announced)

Hope this helps,

Avi

[mirka]

If I understand correctly, this is not the first time this sort of thing happens with a pre-sale, and saying it is an "Israeli thing" is offensive.

Well, IMHO this type of manners showed in such numbers are new to this Forum.....
I understand that LC has a lot of long time fans in Israel, I sold one of my Vienna tix to a girl who with her mother travelled for the concert from Israel, and they weren't millioners for sure.
/Now that I think of it -- I sold another spare ticket here in the SF Bay Area to a Russian Jew /

I don't think however that all this justifies tolerating raiding the Forum the way it was done.
If such behaviour is condoned b/c of silly PC, pretty soon we'll have multitude of postings similar to those in this thread, Mods will have hands full of work, and regulars turn their attention to other, more pleasant parts of their life.
I've seen very good Internet Forums gradually vanishing this way.

I'm going on vacations anyway, so good luck with the tickets !
I'm curious if they will indeed magically appear in the public sale closer to the concert date (as it happened in other concerts of this tour), or there is another, country-specific explanation of 47k tickets sold within 17 hrs via a couple of phone lines and crashing servers...

[zvulun]

If I understand correctly, this is not the first time this sort of thing happens with a pre-sale, and saying it is an "Israeli thing" is offensive.

Well, IMHO this type of manners showed in such numbers are new to this Forum.....
I understand that LC has a lot of long time fans in Israel, I sold one of my Vienna tix to a girl who with her mother travelled for the concert from Israel, and they weren't millioners for sure.
/Now that I think of it -- I sold another spare ticket here in the SF Bay Area to a Russian Jew /

I don't think however that all this justifies tolerating raiding the Forum the way it was done.
If such behaviour is condoned b/c of silly PC, pretty soon we'll have multitude of postings similar to those in this thread, Mods will have hands full of work, and regulars turn their attention to other, more pleasant parts of their life.
I've seen very good Internet Forums gradually vanishing this way.

I'm going for vacations anyway, so good luck with the tickets !
I'm curious if they will indeed magically appear in the public sale closer to the concert date (as it happened in other concerts of this tour), or there is another, country-specific explanation of 47k tickets sold within 17 hrs via a couple of phone lines and crashing servers...

I'm sentimental, if you know what I mean
I love the country but I can't stand the scene.
And I'm neither left or right
I'm just staying home tonight..


a. couldn't get the ticket, lucky me.(. I was in BERLIN though, so I just let it be (as if)
b. to mirka, what you witnessed on these last days is propably called a 'cultural gap', but you're not the one to blame for this, trust me, I live in this place since I was born and I still didn't get over it.
anyway, best regards to those who got tickets, I'm here if anyone wants to sell one or two of them..

[reneny3]

I am so afraid that I listen to you,
Your sun glassed protectors they do that to you.
Its their ways to detain, their ways to disgrace,
Their knee in your balls and their fist in your face.
Yes and long live the state by whoever its made,
Sir, I didnt see nothing, I was just getting home late.

[mirka]

b. to mirka, what you witnessed on these last days is propably called a 'cultural gap', but you're not the one to blame for this, trust me, I live in this place since I was born and I still didn't get over it.

oh, I see what you mean, after all I lived half of my adult life in a country where the word 'balagan' is part of everyday language (seriously, this is a 100% Polish word, I was surprised to hear it's used in Israel)...
poor Leonard, it'll be quite an expericence for him to play to such an emotional audience...

...what makes things even more interesting is that I'm going to Israel anyway this year, not for the LC concert but in November for a few days...

[Rodin]

Rodin is just using this as an excuse to attack the Israelis whom he hates (as evident from his earlier posts).

Absolute nonsense.
In previous posts I have attacked the actions of the Israeli state (and I was appalled again by what they did in the last couple of days), but in this case I was annoyed with the lack of respect shown to the Forum by these people. BTW I didn't say all, I said the majority.
I do not hate Israelis, I only hate bad manners.


























I also hate Bad Manners

[ClosingTime]

Well, one thing you have to bring into account when you guys single out Israelis is how special the concert in Israel is.

First of all, we get a lot less international concerts in general (though the tide might be turning with Paul McCartney, Madonna and of course Leonard Cohen), so each one gets a lot more attention than it would in the US or Europe. I know people who live in cities where LC performed 3 nights or so back to back without them even having heard about it. Here the media covered the show extensively from the first rumors to when the tickets became sold out.

Moreover, people who live in the States and in Europe get a lot more chances to see Leonard Cohen. Since the tour began, Cohen passed through virtually every major city at LEAST once. And in the States and Europe worst case you can take a long road trip or train ride to a neighboring city, state, or country. We don't have that option; the closest place for us to see LC is 3-4-5 hours of flight away, mighty expensive.

So for many Israelis, this is truly a ONCE IN A LIFETIME opportunity. Literally. You guys probably never faced that sort of situation (no offense).
Can you really blame them for signing up to get tickets or "hoarding" the forum? My brother managed to get 2 tix. We are 5 in the family, all of us Cohen fans. Do you realize how much that sucks?

Now for the rudeness. Honestly, I think a lot of that comes from sincerely not understanding how this forum works. Most of the people saw it as some shtick to secure tickets. They didn't realize that this is something you guys worked hard to arrange. They think the mods are some sort of tech support. You have to bring into account here the wide audience Cohen attracts; many older folks don't really get how the internet works. And, they had many reasons to be upset at the production - which they wouldn't know to differentiate from you guys.

So please, don't be so quick to judge. Sure, there are a lot of d-bags in Israel. Some of them probably LC fans. But there's a lot of douches everywhere. And 1. Israeli douchebags Cohen fans for various reasons had better reasons to "hoard" the forum, and 2. a lot of the apparently rude people did so completely unintentionally. That's what I hope. Give us the benefit of doubt.


Cheers,
Oded.

PS
Mirka, Jarkko, and whoever else helped arrange the presale - while for reasons I regret I haven't used the presale, I thank you on behalf of the people who did. And please trust me, we Israelis aren't as ungrateful as you think.

[flytomars]

Hi all,
I am one of the "hoarders" who came just for the presale (and stayed, and read) and did not say "Thank you".
Oded said:

"Now for the rudeness. Honestly, I think a lot of that comes from sincerely not understanding how this forum works. Most of the people saw it as some shtick to secure tickets. They didn't realize that this is something you guys worked hard to arrange. They think the mods are some sort of tech support."

I can say this is definately the case with me - I did not know the presale was the work of the forum mods, I thought it "came down from above" ie the company who arranged this tour - at the begining before the sale was opened for Israelis, I thought it is a way to secure tickets for people coming from abroad to see what was previously hailed as the last show of the tour. It still makes sense to me that non-israelis who fly all the way to see the show should get this special treatment, but I am still very happy I tagged along otherwise I wouldnt have had a ticket, and that would have been a real bummer for me (as Oded said, for a regular guy with a normal day job and no time / money for long vacations from work, this is a truly once in a lifetime oppurtunity to see this living legend).
Only later did I understand that this was arranged by the forum members, so here is my belated chance to say a big heartfelt and honest "THANK YOU!!"

By the way, the reason the forum was swamped with new members from Israel is due to the fact that the 2 major news websites (walla and ynet) posted a link to this forum - and when I say major, I mean 2 sites that together surpass about 100% of the israeli people who have internet. I am sure this kind of exposure has dragged all kinds, good and bad, not all fluent in english, not all nice, BUT- when this all fades away, I am sure some will stick around and add good substance to the forum. All in all I think the forum will benefit from this - time will filter out all those who do not fit it, and the talk about the "demise" of the forum are over-dramatic and not really connected to reality, IMHO.
I, for one, promise to write a review about the show in Israel, though I dont have any reference points (apart for the London DVD).
But for the time being, im going back to the shades, to read the reviews and setlists and wealth of information that this forum has to offer, hope no one will mind me enjoying all the information that is already here- I thought this is what forums are all about, but if anyone has an objection I promise I will not continue reading
Thanks again to all who made this happen,
Erez

[Rodin]

Excellent couple of posts and a warm welcome to the forum.

[minibi]

I agree.
You both hit the nail on the head. Thank you for getting the message across...

[Womanfromaroom]

Yes, welcome, and please stay around - it is definitely worth it!

[bridger15]

I, for one, promise to write a review about the show in Israel.
Erez

And I, for one, look forward with great anticipation to reading your review. Please remember to include LC's Birkat Kohanim following, "Whither Thou Goest".

Enjoy the Forum!
---Arlene