WHAT DO WE DO NOW?

jmflash · Post by **jmflash** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 4:24 am

This thought now occurs to many of us who were disgusted with the election results on Tuesday. Feelings of anguish, helplessness, and depression grasp us. The thought of leaving the country now seems more appealing as worries about our future and what will happen to our freedom occupy our minds. But freedom is not something that is granted by a government, it is a choice that each makes within their own heart. President George W. Bush does not define me, he does not represent who I am, or what I believe. If you feel the same, then now is the most urgent time to stand up and declare who you are and what you are about. It is time to protest and mobilize. It is not time to run away or leave. Accepting an injustice is committing an injustice. I did not lead this life to be told what to do. I remember as a child being frightened reading about Nazi Germany and wondering what I would do had I lived there in those times. I remember hoping that I would have fought the totalitarianism there, and that I hoped in my life I would fight injustice anywhere I saw it no matter what the consequences. You must believe that your actions make a difference. Voting is only one small part of a democracy. We have freedom because we choose to have it. We can freely express our views and act on them to try and change others’. No matter that the conservatives have the Presidency, the Senate, and the House of Representatives, they do not have our minds and they cannot tell us what to do. If the government wishes to continue with war, we have the right to disobey them. A government becomes powerless when the people refuse to be governed. I believe that all life has value and worth, and that no matter if one is an Iraqi or Afghani or American, their life is intertwined with all life on this planet. It pains me to see 5,000 killed in New York and Washington, or 100,000 innocent Iraqi women and children killed in the War in Iraq, or the thousands of innocent Afghanis that were bombed by the US after September 11th, or the over one million Iraqi children killed by UN sanctions since 1991. We must now fight for peace with all of our hearts. Do not lose hope. Proverbs 13:12 “When hope is crushed, the heart is crushed...” We are in the belly of the lone superpower on Earth. Let us make this force one for peace and love, not hatred and greed. Our actions carry gravity, even though at times it may seem otherwise. In Camus’ “The Myth of Sisyphus,” the main character is forced to push a boulder up a hill, only to find that when he reaches the summit, the boulder falls back down. Nevertheless, he continues on. It wasn’t the top that mattered. It was the pushing. “The struggle towards the heights is enough to fill a man’s heart.” While I breathe, I hope.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 5:16 am

Dear JM ~

Thank you for your eloquent message of hope.

~ Elizabeth

bee · Post by **bee** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:57 am

[quote="jmflash"]. No matter that the conservatives have the Presidency, the Senate, and the House of Representatives, they do not have our minds and they cannot tell us what to do. If the government wishes to continue with war, we have the right to disobey them. A government becomes powerless when the people refuse to be governed.
JmFlash- the people are with this Senate, Presidency etc. ~ you are not~ too bad. Just keep crying , it is good for your soul.
Besides, Lizzy feels comforted, consoled by your message

bee · Post by **bee** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 10:00 am

quote="jmflash"].

No matter that the conservatives have the Presidency, the Senate, and the House of Representatives, they do not have our minds and they cannot tell us what to do. If the government wishes to continue with war, we have the right to disobey them. A government becomes powerless when the people refuse to be governed.

JmFlash- the people are with this Senate, Presidency etc. ~ you are not~ too bad. Just keep crying , it is good for your soul.
Besides, Lizzy feels comforted, consoled by your message

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 2:39 pm

You're being arrogant and dismissive, as well, Bi. You're capable of greater than the unattractive qualities you're exhibiting, in response to the genuine feelings of people, regarding these deeply-divisive years, and election, that this country is enduring. Please don't be embarrassed for me.

Byron · Post by **Byron** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 3:51 pm

Awsome

http://supak.com/bush.htm

truly awsome.

Some of you will be shocked to realise that the words spoken in the 'link' above, are not my own words. In fact, I don't think I need to say anymore about the man. He can do a much better job for me in his own words.

Midnight · Post by **Midnight** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 6:25 pm

Nice link...Albert.

Don't you know you're not showing us anything new. Michael Moore and his condescending ilk beat you to the punch long ago. It's just this kind of "we're so smart and bush is so dumb" mentality that lost the election for the Dems.

Byron · Post by **Byron** » Fri Nov 05, 2004 9:13 pm

Albert says "thank you" to Midnight. Albert and his friend were only given this 'link' yesterday and therefore found it to be illuminating.

We apologise for being behind the times and can assure you that we understand Midnight's summary of the causes for the election result.

However, what do we do now? seems to be a thread that can be of some use as a discussion site for what we can do now.

I have no idea what lays in the future, or as the politicians would say, "what lies in the future."

I was a young man when the Cuban missile crisis had us terrified and fearful for any future at all. 2 global giants stood face to face and played Mexican Roulette. We knew who our enemy was then. Long sentences and reasoning could follow that last sentence of mine. The enemy now is a devout, religious believer in G-d and the safe haven of a Heaven. Economic systems were in conflict in my younger years. 'Isms' were the causes that men were prepared to die for.

Religiosity is the new (and very old) battleground of our current times. What do we do now? Pray.

smile · Post by **smile** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 4:26 pm

Being in the UK we feel bad also I live by the 2 largest USAF bases in the UK and there is an atmosphere that I have never seen in the 20 years living here. I feel for all the people caught up in all this as we are all only pawns.........

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:42 pm

I express my sorrow to the husband, relatives, and people of Iraq, England, and Ireland regarding the death of Margaret Hassan. It's unthinkable, and yet it's happened

. She was so good to all concerned.

~ Elizabeth

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:14 pm

Margaret Hassan should have been spared. Ken Bigley and others went in with their eyes open they took danger money and ran the risk. Margaret Hassan lived and breathed Iraq. It will stop all care agencies going in to help.

jurica · Post by **jurica** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:21 pm

there's something to what Bee said. the people have spoken. it's Bush that they said. if you disobey the goverment, you are disobeying the American people.

in democracy, you ought to obey the majority, if not, anybody could say: i do not agree with this law. why would it be bad to kill people. i'll just disobey and kill a few people and then it will be my way at the end.

THAT's how bloody mess politics are. not as simple as: i'll do what Ghandi did.

lechehombre · Post by **lechehombre** » Wed Nov 17, 2004 10:56 pm

It is never the duty of a citizen to disobey a higher law in order to follow a lower law. Laws are made for the good of the people - people are not made for the good of laws. Always remember that Justice supercedes Obedience.

Jo · Post by Jo » Thu Nov 18, 2004 2:11 am

A passing thought....the Germans elected Hitler.
And let's not forget that for decades white South Africans continued to elect the Nationalists.
I wonder how the world would be now if the minority of white South Africans who stood up for justice in spite of prevailing opinions and the minority of Germans who saved the lives of many Jews had all followed their leaders as blindly as the majority of Americans appear to be doing now?
While the majority of humanity continue to behave like sheep and follow the loudest voice the world will stay as fucked up as it is. Perhaps schools should introduce a new course - How to achieve Independent Thinking through Analysis of Facts

Jo

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Thu Nov 18, 2004 9:28 am

jurica wrote:there's something to what Bee said. the people have spoken. it's Bush that they said. if you disobey the goverment, you are disobeying the American people.

Governments, or administrations, are but the dress democracies wear for the present day. Opposition is the spine of democracy. Without a self-conscious and active opposition, democracy couldn't be but a totalitarian dictatorship by the accidental majority on election day. It's always been anti-democratic governments that tried to silence opposition (see below for an example).

jurica wrote:anybody could say: i do not agree with this law.

Usually the law system is much more stable than majorities or governments. Even introducing new legislation doesn't change the general course of Law as much as politicians love to believe. Though bound by legislation, judges have to interpret legislation, and they do this by flexing the new legislation consistently into the total body of Law.
If someone considers obeying a specific law a crime, he will disobey, and judges will take care of him. He will take his punishment. And judges might find that a certain legislation is unconstitutional and therefore nought. This is not a decision to be made by politicians or majorities.
For those reasons legislative power is rarely as dangerous as executive decision.

jurica wrote:in democracy, you ought to obey the majority...

Majorities change, and elections don't always count them correctly, though there is some indication that these days a very thin majority of Americans supports Bush. This might change very soon with the next load of "boys coming home in a box", or with the next TV rendering of the reality soap "Our Christian Soldiers butchering some families in Iraq". Some time in the 1960's a thin majority supported the war in Viet Nam. Then this majority quickly vanished. Were those opposing the war wrong in opposing while the majority supported the military-industrial-political complex?

Jo wrote:A passing thought....the Germans elected Hitler.

Actually they didn't, but he came into office in a democratic way. Hitler came to power by a change of coalition. Some non-fascist, conservative parties, believed they could keep him and his party more easily under control when they shared government with him and his sidekicks.
Then he made the "Reichstag" pass a law by which the parliament handed over near-total power to Hitler. (Of course he had to emprison part of the Reichstag MP's to succeed, and those who voted against this law went to the Concentration Camps.)
For all practical purposes opposition had been silenced from early 1933 until 1945. Judges who preferred Constitutionality over obeyance to the "majority/government" were quickly silenced as well.

Tom

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