Jesus

jmflash · Post by **jmflash** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 5:49 am

There's something I've never been able to understand. Why did Jesus cry out, "Eli, Eli, lema sabachtani?" when he was on the cross. This means, "My God, My God, why did you abandon me?" What is the Christian explanation for this?

Elsie · Post by **Elsie** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 3:31 pm

Jesus was in great pain - and feeling very alone. He was about to fulfil his father's will, in order to save those who believe. His cry just proves that he was, in this situation, only human.

My Christian belief is very simple. I've always found this scene very strong and touching.

Sohbet · Post by **Sohbet** » Wed Oct 01, 2003 4:28 pm

That God as God sent God as Jesus to earth, to suffer horrible pain and death as a substitute for such punishment happening to humans, is known as the substitutionary theory of the redemption. It is a very old way of viewing the Christ event and enormous numbers of people still adhere to this view. However, it is not the only way to view the crucifixion. If this interests you, welcome to a lifetime of theological study!
In my view, Jesus dwelt among us to experience the totality of life as a human being. We humans in our dreadful inadequacy killed him. Committed to us to the end, Jesus didn’t save himself. This example of total commitment and love is what he left us, not a nasty plan in which an innocent person was killed to somehow save others. Think about it; is this a God you can imagine? Despite the beauties of the liturgy, which I love, I do not believe God had this savagery, to plan such an event. It’s really a rather primitive view, isn’t it?
Insofar as his cry from the cross, I think this was the moment when, in the horror of his death, he so wholly abandoned himself to being only human that he lost his consciousness of God. It’s very touching , to me.
I have used the masculine pronoun to refer to God as Jesus since that is historical fact. I do not believe that God is only male. Victors write the history books.

jurica · Post by **jurica** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 1:46 pm

well, if you ask me, Jesus never existed. but i don't think you were after THAT kind of an answer.

but if i'm wrong - http://www.infidels.org/library/histori ... _live.html or http://www.atheists.org/church/didjesusexist.html could help you to learn more.

but! be sure to read the Bible - i did. it was a great inpiration to many writers before, and there's so much more there to inspire writers to come.

Sohbet · Post by **Sohbet** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:05 pm

Dear Jurica, This looks like an excellent article, with much interesting information about interpretation, etc. I can see from skimming it that much of the information is sound but much remains to be said about what in this possibly historic figure has been so attractive. I have saved the article to read later. You may be interested in the work of Crossan, who has led a team who have divided the supposed words of the Jesus-figure into three categories: (1) What Jesus almost certainly said, (2) What he may have said, (3) What sounds like the type of thing he may have said but probably didn't. I think this is called the Jesus Project, but I may be wrong. I am only an amateur theologican. Insofar as historical evidence as to his existence, remember that to the authorities he was only an illegitimate peasant trouble maker! This alone could be a good reason to love him!

Heretic · Post by **Heretic** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:51 pm

Jesus who?

Makera · Post by **Makera** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:13 pm

Jmflash~

What a wonderfully innocent and open-hearted question! Whenever anyone asks earnestly in such a way (i.e. truly wanting to know) the answers always come. If this is so for you, keep asking and seeking,for it must come to you in the way and form you need, to understand it.
Don't accept any 'pat' answers from any established creed or dogma. The mystics have always known this, (like St Francis, Gandhi, Martin Luther or Joan of Arc).

A good place to start would be the records of the Edgar Cayce A.R.E: the Association for Research and Enlightenment. This was established to provide access to the information contained in readings given by America's most famous (and truly authentic) seer, aka the "sleeping prophet":- http://www.edgar-cayce.com It is not a church.

These readings contain the most comprehensive (and comprehensible) collection of details about the life,education,origin,purpose and crucifixtion
of Jesus, straight from the source. (Cayce was not a 'channeler', by the way)
An example: The established Christian churches won't acknowledge that Jesus not only taught the deeper meanings of reincarnation, but that it was a widely accepted fact at the time.(The Hassidim know this).

May your God bless and guide you on your journey of discovery.

~Makera

ps Edited to correct web address, wasn't linking properly

Makera · Post by **Makera** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 4:55 pm

Elsie wrote: Jesus was in great pain - and feeling very alone. He was about to fulfil his father's will, in order to save those who believe. His cry just proves that he was, in this situation, only human.

My Christian belief is very simple. I've always found this scene very strong and touching.

This is a lovely example of how simple (innocent) belief with compassion
will "See the face of God". The sweetness of such words never go unheard.

God bless you, Elsie.

~Makera

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:18 pm

......of Nazareth, Partisan

. As I'm recalling, this stood in place of what we consider a surname.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:24 pm

Jurica ~

I don't question the existence of Jesus. There seems to be documentation to that effect. The only thing I question is his ascribed status as the one and only son of G~d. The site you've given the link to sure sounds relevant in sorting through some of what's attributed to him!

~ Elizabeth

jmflash · Post by **jmflash** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 6:31 pm

I guess another part of my question would be why the discrepancy between the Gospels. In Luke and John this incident does not seem to occur. There does not seem to be any breakdown whatsoever.

John the Shorts · Post by **John the Shorts** » Thu Oct 02, 2003 11:44 pm

The general theory is that each of the gospels looks at the life of Jesus from a different perspective (as did several other gospels not included in the (King James) bible)

For example John, apparently, looks at the life of Jesus from a spiritual point of view, Luke (I think) looks at his life from a physical point of view outlining his birth and youth (something none of the other gospellers do), and so on.

There are not many things repeated in all of these gospels.

JTS (An agnostic raised as RC)

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 1:00 am

I am agnostic but I love the bible and I love the imagery in it. I don't know if anyone remembers David Kossof's bible stories which used to be on the telly but he brought the bible to life. The greatest story ever told.

linmag · Post by **linmag** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 3:20 am

I saw David Kossof live one evening. I had seen him on TV and enjoyed his approach to religion enormously, but was not sure whether I could listen to him for a whole evening. I need not have worried, he held a whole theatre full of people spellbound for well over two hours.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Oct 03, 2003 4:00 am

Sohbet ~ Do you have a link to the work of Crossan that you referred to here? His sounds like a made-up name with "Cross" in it.

~ Lizzytysh