Group Therapy

[Manna]

I've never been in group therapy, so I don't have an experience to draw on; it's just that I got carried away with how I might write it. Sorry for that. However, when I consider the situation, and try to put myself into the clothes of someone who has been to group therapy, all those things - failure, hope, courage, and both the lack and presence of the latter two - instantly come to mind. I don't think it's absolutely unallowable to mention an emotion in a poem, and I agree, imagery can be overdone.

Some of the fun of poetry for me is that you have an opportunity to tell me something without telling me what you're telling me. But a few months ago I did rifle thru a book of poetry that was surprisingly straight forward and enjoyable. A published book. I forget what it was called and who the author was. Maybe M-9? (I guess it wasn't all that memorable, ha ha.) Is that a little fire cracker that a kid would set off to terrorize a neighbor? Anyway... I'm glad you don't take my review as Gospel.

[mat james]

I enjoy watching you react, Manna.
You are a passionate being.
Gypsy, we all stumble; and that is beautiful in itself.

[Manna]

golly, matj, thanks.

someone here somewhere once said something like, "why is it that the best responses come after my worst posts?"

[mat james]

When my heart crumbles with pain
and my starving spirit withers
and the fuel of anger is gone,
when I am weary of all that I know
and blind to anything new,
when I have been alone
in a wilderness
screaming silently and unnoticed
for so long
that I want to be dead

I come here
to see if you too know these things.

By the way ...gypsy, in my opinion, these two verses are the poetry in your poem. They flow beautifully and powerfully, like the emotion from which they sprang. It is "The Dark Night of the Soul" that many pass through to Unity.
Rabindranath Tagore, the great Indian Poet of last century, writes with a similar stamp. But the "you" you refer to in the last line, would be his god, not his therapy group! Both are useful

Let Me Not Forget

...When I sit by the roadside, tired and panting,

when I spread my bed low in the dust,

let me ever feel that the long journey is still before me

---let me not forget a moment,

let me carry the pangs of this sorrow in my dreams

and in my wakeful hours.

When my rooms have been decked out and the flutes sound

and the laughter there is loud,

let me ever feel that I have not invited thee to my house

---let me not forget for a moment,

let me carry the pangs of this sorrow in my dreams

and in my wakeful hours.



Sit Smiling

I boasted among men that I had known you.

They see your pictures in all works of mine.

They come and ask me, `Who is he?'

I know not how to answer them. I say, `Indeed, I cannot tell.'

They blame me and they go away in scorn.

And you sit there smiling.

I put my tales of you into lasting songs.

The secret gushes out from my heart.

They come and ask me, `Tell me all your meanings.'

I know not how to answer them.

I say, `Ah, who knows what they mean!'

They smile and go away in utter scorn.

And you sit there smiling.

Poems By Rabindranath Tagore


Below is a link to his most famous Work, (if you are interested)

http://www.schoolofwisdom.com/gitanjali.html

[lizzytysh]

And Rabindranath Tagore's piece reminds me of Leonard.


~ Lizzy

[raggletagglegypsy]

Hi Mat
Sorry to have ignored your comment. I've been away for a while. You make a similar point to Manna's about dropping the first stanza.
I think I have a problem. I can see that the tone of each stanza differs. When I try to show the workings of the mind and the workings of the heart in the same poem they don't sit comfortably together, the two voices are different. There must be a way around this. If I want it to flow, how can I show both thought and emotion in the same poem? Any suggestions, anyone? I'll have to think about this.
Thanks for your further reading recommendation.

[William]

I disagree with Manna and Mat (those old M &M's again)
I think the imagery in the first stanza is much stronger than that in the second.
In fact, dare I suggest, you may have said all you need or truly wanted to say in stanza one?

[raggletagglegypsy]

William -
I welcome your comments but I suspect you are being mischievous here!! Three of you agree on one thing - these verses don't sit well together. I bow to your better judgement but why can't I see what you guys see? I'll never get the hang of this poetry lark.

[mat james]

I'll never get the hang of this poetry lark.

Keep writing
don't worry about what we think
or the prejudices we bring to your work
It's you
not us.

[Manna]

I disagree with Manna and Mat (those old M &M's again)
I think the imagery in the first stanza is much stronger than that in the second.
In fact, dare I suggest, you may have said all you need or truly wanted to say in stanza one?

The only imagery in the first stanza is "familiar faces." If you see other imagery there, please tell me what it is. Imagery, as I understand it, is those bits of writing that appeal to the senses. Familiar faces are things I can see. The rest of S1 appeals to the reader’s ability to empathize – unfamiliarity, failure, hope, safety & lack of comfort in the situation. These are things the author has told us without the use of imagery in S1. You may like S1 better, and that is fine, but it is not because of imagery.
A crumbling heart is an image, a starving spirit, wilderness, silent screams – these are images.

Ragtag,
Don't you dare bow to our judgment! You have displayed talent, I can only hope that you continue to work at it and develop. For me, it's just for fun.

Hey, wanna play with a corpse?

[raggletagglegypsy]

Not really my idea of fun...........but......OK! At what stage of decomposition is it?

[Manna]

It's up to four lines. I'll PM you the current one so you can add yours!

[William]

Manna -
imagery may not be the word you would have chosen but I meant that there is much with which to empathise in stanza one-

How little we know of each other
or want each other to know.
(The statement, for me, is strong in its state of almost paradox. It's also a very definite opening remark, one that catches the attention, not the sole role of a poem but an interesting one, neverthless.)

Among these familiar faces
I know failure
because I cannot contribute.
(It seems to me that this is the kernel of what the writer is saying, this is the nub of the work, a sense of alienation even among those who are familiar to her/him. This was why I suggested that there may have been sufficient said in the opening section.)

I know hope
because someday I might.
(A wonderful statemet of optimism in the face of the pessimist within us all)

I know I must come out and be here
when it feels safer to stay where I am.
(Again,I believe this pushes the argument made in the lines above.)

These are the reasons for my favouring stanza one.

If I chose the wrong word to describe that empathy, I apologise. However, I find your statement: "You may like S1 better, and that is fine, but it is not because of imagery" a little on the harsh side in what is meant simply to be a discussion.

Youth may be wasted on the young, good manners are not!

Raggletaggle,
far from seeking to make mischief, I have outlined by reasons above.

[Manna]

It seems I was unnecessarily harsh. My only intention was to have the proper terms used in the discussion. I didn't mean it as a personal thing. I haven't gotten to know you at all, and I have no ideas about your personality. (Aside from that it seems you prefer good manners over the poor ones I displayed.)

[William]

Manna
The matter is "sorted" as they say.
I may have been a little hasty - old age and all that!
Good luck with your exquisite corpse -
from another (almost) corpse.