Anjani and Leonard in Europe, USA and Canada

[John Etherington]

Well, thanks Lizzy ...you must be psychic! The photo was taken at Brasenose College in Oxford, last year. I must say that it's a rather flattering one. The mirror may not lie, but the camera sometimes does.
I have been around the Leonard world a long time, you know...to attend 15 London concerts, and meet Leonard in 1976. However, because I still have some element of youthfulness, I think Adam Cohen thought I was joking when I told him (at his own first London gig) that I was also at his dad's first concert. I did attend the first Leonard convention at Lincoln UK, and met Jarkko and Eija at Kings Cross, en route (there's a report somewhere on this site). I tend to avoid fandom however, because it can be a dangerous thing! I enjoyed the spontaneous singalong at Lincoln, but once this sort thing becomes routine, it loses its magic for me. One after- show singalong that I saw on DVD (was it Berlin?) sounded quite pitiful. Also, I don't like to have Leonard wanabees inflicting their versions of his songs on me. Leonard's music is far too sacred and personal a thing to me. All that said, I will probably re-surface at some Leonard event!
All good wishes, John E

[lizzytysh]

Hi John ~

Well, thanks Lizzy ...you must be psychic!

Well, you're welcome... ... and sometimes I think I am, or more accurately, sometimes I am; however, I believe that everyone is or can be, with serious focus and reenforcement in that direction, it's there as a potential for everyone. In this instance, I don't know... I'm not always so spot on; in fact, I'm sometimes spot off... hence, my amazement this time with you. It seems I come close often enough, but not this close.

That's wonderful that you were at both Leonard's and Adam's first concerts! It made my eyes tear up just writing that... who knows why. And 15 concerts, yes... astonishing and you, so fortunate to have had so many opportunities. I think, too, that this is part of the reason that you're so baffled that I would fly to New York to see Anjani. You live in a country, as well as a city, that have the best of the best of the best appear there as a given. Your proximity requires virtually nothing of you beyond just showing up.

Even if you lived in another part of England during those earlier times, your travel to London is still brief, compared to our travel to our major cities which tend to be thousands rather than hundreds of miles apart... much less their being the major cities that the people we most want to see even appear at ~ if Anjani were ever to appear in Florida, well... some major performers do, but comparatively few.

One after- show singalong that I saw on DVD (was it Berlin?) sounded quite pitiful.

"After-show" ~ well... yes... alcohol and sing-a-longs... need I say more ? No idea how much of it preceded your "At Lincoln," but I know about Berlin, as I was there; yet, I know how some things can simply lose their magic... however, in my world, there is nowhere else that I can join in a singalong of Cohen songs, other than at an Event or a gathering... a singalong of two barely meets the definition. It's difficult enough to get more than two in any given place at any given time. The Events and gatherings do it naturally.

I don't like to have Leonard wanabees inflicting their versions of his songs on me. Leonard's music is far too sacred and personal a thing to me.

I understand this from a certain perspective. Leonard's music is far too sacred and personal a thing to me, too... but the exclusion factor doesn't enter in at the same juncture that yours does. The vast VAST majority of those singing Leonard's songs at Events and gatherings aren't Leonard wannabees... they/we know better than that; we know we're not destined to write, sing, record, and enjoy the worldwide acceptance and love that Leonard has... we know that.

What is true and what we do all understand, however, is how much and how deeply Leonard has touched us and how pivotal he has been in our lives. He is in our hearts, individually and collectively. It is sublime to be able to share with your friends what is in your heart, in an atmosphere of safety; and know you will be understood, and will not be rejected or judged. That is what happens at the Events and gatherings. We're not looking to replicate Leonard... we truly cannot come close... we're just looking to share what's in our hearts, as friends often do.


Love to you, John, and I hope you do come to an Event and/or gathering sometime and experience the unique dynamic.



Love,
Lizzy

[dick]

Opened my Time Out New York magazine this morning and there on page 16 is a great color photo of Leonard and Anjani and a contest offer for free tickets and albums at Joe's Pub for the April 24 performance.

Don't have to be a subscriber, and contest is open to all US residents -- sorry to the rest of you --

See it here
http://www.timeout.com/newyork/static_c ... /index.php

I have already submitted the winning entry But you have until the 11th to enter a challenge.

[lizzytysh]

I have already submitted the winning entry But you have until the 11th to enter a challenge.

I'm challenging you now, Dick... unless you are winning, so as to share it with me .


Hugs,
Lizzy

[Andrew (Darby)]

One after- show singalong that I saw on DVD (was it Berlin?) sounded quite pitiful.

"After-show" ~ well... yes... alcohol and sing-a-longs... need I say more ? No idea how much of it preceded your "At Lincoln," but I know about Berlin, as I was there; yet, I know how some things can simply lose their magic... however, in my world, there is nowhere else that I can join in a singalong of Cohen songs, other than at an Event or a gathering... a singalong of two barely meets the definition. It's difficult enough to get more than two in any given place at any given time. The Events and gatherings do it naturally.

I don't like to have Leonard wanabees inflicting their versions of his songs on me. Leonard's music is far too sacred and personal a thing to me.

I understand this from a certain perspective. Leonard's music is far too sacred and personal a thing to me, too... but the exclusion factor doesn't enter in at the same juncture that yours does. The vast VAST majority of those singing Leonard's songs at Events and gatherings aren't Leonard wannabees... they/we know better than that; we know we're not destined to write, sing, record, and enjoy the worldwide acceptance and love that Leonard has... we know that.

What is true and what we do all understand, however, is how much and how deeply Leonard has touched us and how pivotal he has been in our lives. He is in our hearts, individually and collectively. It is sublime to be able to share with your friends what is in your heart and know you will be understood and will not be rejected or judged . That is what happens at the Events and gatherings. We're not looking to replicate Leonard... we truly cannot come close... we're just looking to share what's in our hearts, as friends often do.

I would echo Lizzy's comments here: I don't think too many of the sing-along performers are under illusions about their ultimate musical worth/destiny - it's more about what in some (religious) contexts is referred to as "fellowship"!:D Also, for me it doesn't detract from the sacredness of Leonard's songs, but pays homage to them in some small way! Having said this, I know there can be some fairly forgettable renditions of his songs. Again, it's a bit like the singing in church or at religious camps that I recall from years ago: there are definitely some interesting sounds that emanate when folk "make a joyful noise unto the Lord"!

Cheers
Andrew (Darby)

[lizzytysh]

Well, now, Dick... what shall we do about this little tidbit of info?

Prizes may not be sold, traded, transferred or refunded.

Considering that you're already attending the early show... and considering that you cannot give me your tickets... you can't use the winning tickets, nor can I use yours . Hmmm... conundrum.

Now, since I see I can only use mine... I can only hope for me to win. Perhaps, they'll just need to draw again, if you win, eh? Oh, wait!!! I know how this could work... you can use the winning ones, and then you can give me the ones you have now... never mind, you don't need to give them to me, I'll buy them from you.

Now, I'm back to hoping you'll win ... well, and hoping you'd let me be the one to buy them.



Hugs,
Lizzy

[dick]

Once one of is notified that we have won, we will address the details.

[lizzytysh]

That's a great analogy you've used, Andrew. "A joyful noise unto the Lord" and how our offerings pay homage to Leonard and his songs. Nor do these singalongs and performances detract in the least from their sacredness in my life.


~ Lizzy

[lizzytysh]

Well, Dick... I've already written down the SASE instructions with the "Get This Winners" address and my envelopes will be in the mail on Monday... or, today, if I'm near a mailbox.

Meanwhile, CONGRATULATIONS to whomever wins, here on the Forum, or elsewhere!


~ Lizzy

[lizzytysh]

Once one of is notified that we have won, we will address the details.

Oh, dear... this sounds so formally non-committal. Guess I won't count on anything here... . That's okay... I understand . I really shouldn't put something like that on here, as it puts you on the spot.

Meanwhile, after I thought a second about "Once one of us is notified . . . ," I returned to read the rest of the fine print of the contest rules. I'd already scanned and found the SASE arrangement, and when I returned [even though they've obtained our email addresses], I didn't see anything about being notified if you win. Like many other contests that openly include a huge number of contestants, a person can access their prize only if they follow the "rules" and contact them to find out if they've won. So, you may want to do the SASE deal, Dick... just in case.

By participating in this contest, entrants waive any claims against Time Out New York arising out of use of the prize and related services, and agree to be registered to receive promotional e-mails from Time Out New York.

I hope my not having checked this box won't preclude me from winning ... you always wonder about that stuff, y'know. I didn't check it because New York isn't an ongoing, entertainment destination for me, and I get SO much other stuff that I need to just delete. HOWEVER>> if I win, I'll be more than happy to receive these promotional e-mails... who knows but what I may be prompted to fly to New York, again, for something else.

Don't have to be a subscriber, and contest is open to all US residents -- sorry to the rest of you --

Maybe they don't want a certain someone in London rolling his eyes about people taking an international/overseas flight to attend .



~ Lizzy

AHA! I was able to catch my own mail to get this sent ~ now I don't need to be near another mailbox today. Wish all the rest of my communications were so quick and easy as an SASE . I'd do SO much better in keeping up.

[gingermop]

Her support system is Leonard.

Lizzy - that was my point!

John was right in saying that my opinion is not a criticism of Anjani, and I agree with your points about their collaboration being mutually beneficial.

You seem to have taken my post personally but I was speaking about Leonard fans collectively : - that not ALL of them would follow Anjani, see her sing, or buy her CDs, if she was not connected to Leonard. You might, but I think it's fair to presume that most wouldn't. This isn't a "false premise", it's just my opinion, and one that probably can't be proven but is what I believe to be true.

Regarding the way the concerts are billed - it works the same way, people would be less interested if it was just Anjani and the industry knows it. Leonard is a strong 'brand'... Anjani isn't. Though that's not to say she won't be in the future!

Best,

Gina

PS I would be interested in the opinions of any people here who are Leonard fans, but who dislike Anjani's output. Just out of curiosity.

[lizzytysh]

Lizzytysh wrote:
Her support system is Leonard.

Lizzy - that was my point!

Hi Gina ~

That was your point?? Why didn't you just say that?? With a support system being a psychological/experience factor, I can't see how it would fit into a discussion of the public's or the industry's acceptance/perception of the reality or perception of Anjani's talent. Support system would relate to the initial period of Anjani getting her stage legs ['sea legs']... Carly Simon has social phobia and stage fright and Barbra Streisand has stage fright, too. Each of them have their personal, support system when it comes time to perform. Someone with whom they feel safe and secure, who they need to be there... it just so happens that Anjani feels that same kind of confidence-boosting relationship with someone who can be onstage with her and can perform with her the songs they've written with duets in mind.

The reason I took it personally regarding flying is that, as far as I can recall at the moment, I'm the only one who's mentioned this, with regard to New York.

The focus in your commentary didn't focus on the personal [support system], at all. It was about Anjani as an accomplished [or not] performer vs. Leonard as one who's already clearly established as such... and Anjani hanging onto Leonard's coattails for exposure and acceptance; and because she's not daft, she's doing it for her own benefit; with Leonard mutually 'using' her. None of your points related to the personal reality of support systems... they all related to the industry and industry assessments of 'real' and/or 'marketable' talent that 'makes it' vs. the 'perception' of talent, as a result of association [and in this case with the implication of] 'with someone who really is.'

It appears that, perhaps, you may be rather immersed in the industry, to the extent that this may be your mindset... one which has been the impetus for the mushrooming of indie labels and myspace exposure.

You might, but I think it's fair to presume that most wouldn't. This isn't a "false premise", it's just my opinion, and one that probably can't be proven but is what I believe to be true.

I'm curious why you would think that this is fair to presume that most wouldn't travel to see Anjani. I'm not quite sure at what point a "premise" becomes one, after having initially been something that's "fair to presume" ~ they seem awfully close and I'm not really sure what the tipping point would be, other than when you actually use it in a debate/argument/or any other forum for making it a point.

Now, I'm also really curious why you've ended your posting focused on the negative toward Anjani... wanting "just out of curiosity" the comments of people who "dislike" [pretty strong verbiage] Anjani's output. It appears to me that you may be one of them, and that you're hoping to prove your original points by coming from a different direction. It's just difficult for me to understand your wanting to focus on any negative that you feel might be out there, with regard to Anjani. It's not that you don't have the right, and you could account it to being a matter of 'balanced reporting' or whatever; however, I haven't really seen the positive that you've given that it would be in balance of [what I saw was more left-handed and back-door, somewhat 'underhanded' 'compliments'], and it begins to feel like a mission.


~ Lizzy

[gingermop]

Hi Lizzy

My meaning was: Leonard is Anjani's career support system.

We are obviously just going to go around in semantic circles with this discussion.... all I'm doing is stating my opinion, which you don't agree with, and that's fine. We can agree to disagree. There is no need to take my opinion personally. I think you are over-analysing my comments, somewhat

My last comment about wanting to know if there are any Leonard fans who dislike Anjani's stuff is exactly as I stated - I am just curious! I'm not on a "mission" to focus on the negative, I'm not one of the people who dislikes Anjani's output, nor do I need to provide a positive to balance things out, and I haven't, in my opinion, given Anjani any "left-handed, back-door, somewhat underhanded compliments" - eeek!

You seem to be extremely sensitive and defensive to comments that may be construed to be negative towards Leonard and/or Anjani in any way... take it easy, I like both of them! Do you? (just kidding!)

Best,

Gina

[lizzytysh]

Hi Gina ~

Yes... you're right that I'm sensitive, though I don't know that it would necessarily be overly, when someone says things about Anjani such as you have:

(1) If Anjani was not connected in any way to Leonard (ie, singing her own songs, with her own words), then her fanbase/those who bought her CDs would be massively smaller, even to the point of her being obscure, I think.

~ For me, the exposure that Leonard's collaboration with Anjani has brought her is so much a given that it doesn't even bear mentioning in the context of what it would be for her without him, as the latter implies that her talent alone would certainly not have gotten her to where she is now... when, in fact, anyone must become known through some means before their fan base can build and their CDs be bought. No one can buy a CD until they're aware of its existence. So, your making a point of this seems to come with negative intent, with words such as "massively," et al.

This is not to belittle her talents, as she is obviously talented, but she is not a stand-out artist unless she is a conduit for the work of Leonard, who IS a stand-out, in any capacity. I think fans of Leonard are kidding themselves if they thought they would still cross the country / globe for Anjani if she was completely seperate from Leonard.

~ When you comment that "she is not a stand-out artist unless she is a conduit for the work of Leonard," you have belittled her talents. There are many, including the popular and famous, who have sung Leonard's songs and have not done rendered them with nearly the quality and expression that Anjani has... she is the one responsible for the melodies and arrangements of Leonard's song on "Blue Alert" and that fact goes into her own, talent column. If she were to perform songs of others, as many popular singers have done, she could easily do the very same thing every bit as effectively, which is also a fact that goes into her own, talent column.

~ I'm curious as to why it concerns you whether fans are "kidding themselves" as to their interest in hearing Anjani, or how far they would travel to see her. I can confirm for myself that I didn't attend the New York Event to see Julie Christensen or Perla Batalla; however, their performances were worth the cost of the trip.

In all the interviews, who gets asked most of the questions? Do they ask anjani about her influences, her history, her future plans for her own music? Not really, because the media want and love Leonard, just like his fans do.

Even though this initially might seem to suggest that it's a skewing by the interviewers, you end up 'justifying' this by suggesting that it's not only the media who has skewed this, but that the fans are perfectly happy with the way they've done it, as they want it that way because they also want to hear from Leonard and don't really want to hear from Anjani, either. In fact, I can speak for myself and say that I would love it if the interviewers could take their questions off Leonard a little more and focus on Anjani. I loved it when she had her say... and would like to hear more from her. In fact, you're not even complaining about the heavily-weighted focus on Leonard, with your perceived slighting of Anjani. As for the questions themselves, it's pretty clear who her strongest influence has been, and she could get away with simply pointing to him and smiling... or saying, "He's here with me today." Being asked about her future plans, when she's just come out with a collaborative album with Leonard; is 'living with' Leonard; and is continuing to work with him on an upcoming album of his, as she's also actively involved there, is something near superfluous. These things could get some media attention, even so... and her history, including Leonard and pre-Leonard, could, as well. It's an unfortunate oversight by the media that they're not asking. Ignoring Leonard, of course, would be the elephant in the living room phenomenon. They both need addressing in interviews.

Anjani's not daft. She's rightfully enjoying a career by hanging on to the coat-tails of an enduring star.

~ "Anjani's not daft" ~ This so much has the feel of a "gold digger's" judgement about someone... except the "gold" isn't money, in the typical sense of that term, which generally has a connotation of cars, jewelry, furs, and spending money, rather than a career. It has the feel of "She's no fool... she knows a good thing when she sees it... she . . . [whatever else one might say when they're being assessed as taking advantage of someone, which is a value judgement diminishing her as a person]."

"hanging on to the coat-tails of . . ."

~ this is a phrase that gets used to diminish the person's ability to do whatever is happening on their own.

"She's rightfully enjoying a career . . ."

~ do you really feel she's "rightfully" enjoying? In the context of your other comments, it doesn't seem that you feel it's right, or that you feel her career developed in a rightly fashion. It seems that you feel her career is somehow fraudulent.

" . . . as he gets to have his work heard without the associated slog of touring and recording."

~ I've already talked about this; yet, it bears mentioning, as it has the impact of being the reverse side of the "gold-digger" equation... and it's not even accurate.

However, to say that we'd all love Anjani sans Leonard is a fallacy.

~ This is a premise and it's a premise that's in error... that it's a fallacy that we'd all love Anjani sans Leonard. The only reason that I wouldn't love Anjani sans Leonard is that I probably wouldn't have had the good fortune of encountering Anjani without Leonard, as she has not focused on pursuing/promoting her career. Your comment, however, doesn't relate to how we came into contact with her; but having done so, whether we'd love her, if Leonard weren't alongside her. This comment diminishes Anjani and her talent.


If you want to say it's merely a matter of semantics, you can; I think it's a matter of a paradigm difference. We can at least agree that it was semantics with the term "support system." I meant it one way, and you meant it another.

Your opinion was stated as though everything you said was actually a given. Even though you used the words "I think" in the beginning, you increasingly stated things as absolutes, and summed everything up [including everything you'd said and qualified with "I think"] with your final sentence [the last thing I quoted, above].

Anjani any "left-handed, back-door, somewhat underhanded compliments" - eeek!

~ We can agree to disagree on this, Gina, as I do believe that even though you said some decent things about Anjani, you undermined them in one way or another, or reversed them, anyway... except for the "eeek!" and I completely agree with that !

. . . to comments that may be construed to be negative towards Leonard and/or Anjani in any way . . .

This didn't take much construing, Gina... and the "any way" was more a matter of 'many ways.'

I'll give this a rest, too... and to say that we disagree is massively an understatement.


~ Lizzy

[Kush]

I would be interested in the opinions of any people here who are Leonard fans, but who dislike Anjani's output. Just out of curiosity.

Hi Gina,

I wouldnt say I dislike Anjani's music but I did not find it special in any way and was quite indifferent to it. In fact I am not sure where my copy of Blue Alert is at the moment.
I agree with the opinions you expressed here...

p.s. I will add that in my opinion like Norah Jones, Anjani benefits with a male duet performance rather than solo. Its a different matter altogether that Norah Jones popularity is somewhere above the ozone layer or whats left of it....