I would like some help with an experiment

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Maybe since I've done these types of things, I just don't feel the need anymore.
... and, perhaps, because I've never done this particular one, it sounds very appealing to me. My friend participated in it at a 3-day yoga retreat and loved it. She commented that you would never dream of how many ways those three simple words can be said and seemingly/actually meant. There was another woman there, at our coming-to-be-traditional Sunday evening dinner and rented [excellent :wink: ] movie at her house, and the three of us did it together rather briefly, with differing inflections... and I could hear the potential for it.

I'm not sure if the intention behind this exercise is akin to 'communication barrier breakthroughs,' but just as in the other exercise I did experience, by the end of it, she related there was a significant shift in the feelings for/attitude toward the other person and in a positive way that endured. I guess in the sense of typical, 'social' exchanges, this could be one of 'going down deep' when one just trusts the process and just goes with it... it seems it would naturally create a paradigm shift, as when one begins doing it, it feels something like awkward and maybe even embarrassing, but the more you relax into it, the more natural it becomes. It also involves sitting closer than 'normal' to the other person, at least what would be 'normal' with someone you don't know :wink: .


~ Lizzy
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~greg
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Post by ~greg »

(This post is mainly for Diane (from the point where I quote her.)
And for me, to help me get back on the one true track.

Its relevance to LC - I don't know.
Axel Jensen and Marianne Ihlen were into Gurdjeiff.
And Ira Nadel in Various Positions, on pg 122,
quotes from a letter that Cohen wrote to Layton
when he was breaking up with Marianne
(and writing "So Long, Marianne")
Everything breaking up here...
Gurdjieff was right when he shouted from his deathbed
to all his teary followers: 'Abandon the system!'
So Cohen did know something about Gurdjieff.
But how much he knew or what he thought about it,
I have absolutely no idea. Except that Nadel's quote
is suggestive, when you remember that the
"System Theater" is an important metaphor in Beautiful Losers.)
)

~~~

Left-brain right-brain pseudo-science
is the kind of thing that really rags my brother-in-law.
He is acting director of the materials division of the
National Science Foundation, and so he is the one
who has to decide who's research gets funded, and
who's gets the guillotine. But his disdain for pseudo-science
isn't due to him being an old school Republican,
worried about government waste. (He is definitely
not Republican.) He just happened to be born
the paraclete of the annihilation of all
nonsense-in-the-name-of-science,
"with extreme prejudice".

I, on the other hand, am a more amiable middle-of-the-road kind of guy.
Which means that whichever way the traffic is going at any particular
moment, I instinctively drive on the other side of the road, the side
less-traveled on. (But if you try this at home you'll find it isn't
necessarily the safest way to drive. Try defending Phil Spector
for example.)

So anyway this one time for some reason that I can't recall,
(or more likely just out of the blue for no reason at all,)
he said to me that he didn't believe in any of this stuff
(-meaning "this shit", except that he's British, so it would
had to have been "this bloody shit", except that he's
a bit anal, so it probably was just "stuff")
- meaning all the pseudo-science spawned on the sides
of the wake of Roger Sperry's lateralization of brain
function research.

And my brilliant retort was:
"you mean you don't believe in Broca's area?"

Which my sister either had to explain to him,
or, more likely, did anyway, because she is his wife,
and wives just love to do it to husbands.

My brother-in-law is what I would call "a reasonable person".
Which very few people are. So it is my highest compliment.
In this case it means that in the instant that I turned him on
to the definitive survey of the subject, which had just come
out around then, in the early 1980s, and which I had
just read, then our "argument", such as it was, was over.
And I don't know if he ever did actually read it.
But we were alike in that we aren't into "asymmetrical warfare".
Meaning that there is never any point in extended arguments
between people who aren't even on the same page.

~~

In this case there are only two valid pages you can be on.

The first one is the still definitive survey of the subject:
Left Brain, Right Brain:
Perspectives From Cognitive Neuroscience

by George Deutsch and Sally P. Springer
http://www.amazon.com/Left-Brain-Right- ... 771&sr=8-1
which I read it in its first edition, in the early 1980s,
And then again in a later edition or two.

It is currently in its 5th edition. And it is very readable.
And very rewarding. And I recommend it.
Very much.
(see the blurbs at the link.)

(I also recommend:
"The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind"
- Julian Jaynes ( see http://www.julianjaynes.org )
- which is a very doubtful thesis, but a hell of a lot of fun.)

~~

The only other valid page you can be on about this stuff
is to regard it all as pure entertainment and nothing more.
Which I am quite sure is the way that everybody does
regard it around here, including Jack.

And I, for one, am absolutely and definitively and quite
seriously in favor of any and all entertainment.

The fact that I can't bring myself to contribute in that vein
to this discussion is not because I am against amusements.
It is because there's another side to all this,
which I have been taking very seriously, -too seriously,
-since the early 1960s.

(I wonder if Jack remembers me in Montreal mentioning
the importance of NOT talking about the things that we take
most seriously? But I don't remember why I said it.)

What I am talking about is exactly this
(- bold and italic emphasises
added by me - )
Diane wrote: The experiment involved being shown words, many of which were 'neutral' words
like apple or tree, and some of which were more highly charged words like death
or longing (I don't actually recall what the words were, but that is beside the point).
And I sat there helplessly watching the dial shoot up, as my body reacted
to the second type of words and had no response to the neutral ones.
Friends took pleasure in saying the most outrageous things to see what happened to my dial.

A very interesting thing was that the machine had a way of measuring how long
in milliseconds after the words flashed up it would take your brain to read and
understand the word. The skin reaction always happened some time before
the conscious understanding of the word.

Being connected to that machine showed me that I know things without being aware of them,
and also that I have no conscious control over my 'true' reactions to things.
I would like to know myself the way that machine 'knew' me.
And then I would like to know someone else who knew themselves in the same way.
And then I would like to be connected to that person rather than the machine.
Blimey what a thought.

Blimey what a thought indeed.
It goes back to at least William James, 1890.
He used hypnotism.
(a "planchette" is a Ouija board)
William James wrote: In a perfectly healthy young man who can write with the planchette,
I lately found the hand to be entirely anaesthetic during the writing act;
I could prick it severely without the Subject knowing the fact.

The writing on the planchette, however, accused me in strong terms
of hurting the hand. Pricks on the other (non-writing) hand, meanwhile,
which awakened strong protest from the young man's vocal organs,
were denied to exist by the self which made the planchette go.[7]

--William James, Principles of Psychology, CHAPTER VIII,
'Unconsciousness' in Hysterics,
Anyone who can say:
I have no conscious control over my 'true' reactions to things.
I would like to know myself the way that machine 'knew' me.
is ready to read this:
Colin Wilson wrote:Gurdjieff's starting-point is the completely deluded state of man;
man, he claims, is so completely embalmed and enmeshed in delusions
that he cannot even be considered as a living being; he can only be
regarded as a machine. He has, in other words, absolutely no free-will.
...
A part of Gurdjieff's system is a method of observing oneself and other people,
and recognizing how many actions are habitual, mechanical.
( note: when Gurdjieff "shouted from his deathbed to all his teary followers:
'Abandon the system!" - he meant exactly this, -his own "system",
because he had seen it become just another mechanical way of existing
among his followers. )


Our conflicting motives should be seen for what they are.
They are different "centers" (--whole "personalities",
--different "consciousnesses",) inhabiting an "individual",
- each having its own distinctive more or less coherent way
of seeing and interacting with the world.
Each with it's own private will.

So an "individual" is not an "individual".
An "individual" is a committee.

Of course everybody gives nodding approval to statements like that.
Because they think of them as jokes. Familiar, good-natured gibes
at human foibles.

But nobody remains amused, when they get the full implication of it.
What they feel instead is frustration. And then they say things like:
"Helplessly watching the dial." And "No conscious control."
And the frustration can become acute and unbearable when we realize
that "Friends took pleasure in saying the most outrageous things to see
what happened to my dial"

-that is, when we realize that other people can and do do that
ALL THE TIME to us. All the frustration and anger and depression
we ever feel is just the machine we are always hooked up to ,
--the machine of ourselves, --showing us the dials of our own reactions,
while we are helpless to do anything about them.

Most people only realize this in extreme circumstances,
such as being literally hooked up to a machine.
This is because of the strong cultural bias against
recognizing, admitting, and dealing with, our own insanity.

"MPD", "Multiple personality disorder",
(or "DID", "Dissociative identity disorder", as it is currently called
in that schizophrenic political document, the DSM IV)
is not the exception. It's the norm. The only difference between ourselves
and certified DID cases is that DID cases have somehow publicly
demonstrated that they suffer from more unruly committees than
the rest of us do. Or that we allow others to see that we do.
Or that we even allow ourselves to see that we do.

We only notice it when our hands (or genitals,
or our levator scapula, suboccipitals, splenius capitis,
splenius cervsi,and semispinalis capitis muscles,
--which turn our heads) seem to act with a mind of their own,
as if we were zombies. Because it's then that,
if we happen to be on acid, we "freak-out".

(note: Sperry's research, and things like the experiment
that Diane was in, make it more dramatic that we do have
these conflicting centers of motivation, - which we should
already know from simple introspection. And the frustration
in realizing it dramatically can lead people to try to
"get it together", - to "will one thing", -in order to live better lives.
But this is very different from the obsessive pseudo-science
of trying to characterize people and aspects of personality
(the "centers") as left vs right brained. Which is much worse
than being just meaningless as science. It's a way of trying
to avoid dealing with the real problem. It's just 'titillation
- escapism.)


Now; I have also read Martin Buber's "Ich-Du"
(ie, "I and Thou"; --I am being pretentious.),
( --and yet it is hard to beat my favorite historical dame,
Lou Andreas Salome, for name dropping: she was
lover to Paul Ree, Rainer Maria Rilke, Sigmund Freud,
Friedrich Nietzsche, Carl Andreas, ... and Martin Buber,
among many others...)
and I have read Marurice Bucke's "Cosmic Consciousness",
and Alan Watts, and Thomas Merton, and Paul Tillich,
and Pierre Teilhard de Chardin, and Swami Vivekananda,
and Buckminster Fuller, and Carlos Castaneda, and Reinhold Niebuhr,
and Timothy Leary, and Richard Alpert. And Baba Ram Dass, too.
And Mao. And all the rest of the required reading list
of my time and season.

But none of that can help Diane with her desire
"to be connected to that person rather than the machine."

Only "the 4th way" can help.

(--but do not check out the news-group alt.consciousness.4th-way
It's got nothing to do with Gurdjeiff anymore if it ever did.)

Diane was made aware, by a machine, that she sometimes
seems to know things without being aware of them,
and sometimes seems to have no conscious control over her reactions.

We are aware of things like that from time to time.
But she was made aware of it in a dramatic way,
that left a lasting impression, and frustration.

Now, if Diane is ready to accept the reformulation of her wish
as:
"I would like to be connected ... as a person,rather than as a machine",

-and can see that it's just an accurate statement of the normal human condition
(and not some kind of personal insult to herself!)
--then she is ready to boogie the 4th way.

As I said, I was turned on to these things in the early 1960s.
By chapter 9 of Collin Wilson's book "The Outsider".
So I feel a fondness for that, and will quote it extensively
in a moment. But I have to say a few things first.

~~

When Colin Wilson writes (in the quote below
(my next post)) that "The 'philosophical' 'parts
may or may not be 'true'; it is impossible to say",
---he is joking.

He also mentions later that Gurdjieff also said
that the purpose of life on earth is to be fodder for the moon.
(You see; the moon eats "negative" human emotions.
So that, as we would say today: "please don't feed the trolls",
--without necessarily believing that the particular entity
we are referring to actually has "eyes as big as saucers and a nose
as long as a poker", --Gurdjieff would have said: "don't feed the moon,"
--without actually believing that the moon has a spoon.

When Gurdjieff said things like that
it was for the benefit of people who can't seem to live life
without somebody telling them what the "purpose" of life is.

Likewise if you've ever heard of "engrams", then you
really have to know that Gurdjeff made up all that kind
of rot purely for the benefit of the compulsive doodlers,
--in order that they have something to occupy their
doodling "centers" with.

( All of the 'centers' need to be occupied ( for the same
reason that we continuously need to be talking to ourselves )
or else they mechanically steal 'energy' from all the other
'centers' and thus interfere with 'self-remembering' and the
other kinds of "work on oneself". )

The "engrams" and the "octaves" and all the other "system"
toys like that are supposed to be used in exactly the same
way, and for exactly the same purpose, as mantras are used
in meditation. They are nothing more than that.
The Gurdjiefff "system" is not a philosophy.

This had to be said because there is an awful lot of writing
about Gurdjieff, and the majority of it seeks out the "sensational"
and "controversial", and can easily leave the impression
that "engrams" (which is a term also used in Scientology
and Dianetics) are important. Which they just aren't.
But if you think they are, then you will either be attracted
to Gurdjieff for the wrong reason, and therefore get nothing
out of it, or else you will be turned off to it for the wrong reason,
and therefore get nothing out of it. Which is the joke that
Colin Wilson meant by saying that "The 'philosophical' parts
may or may not be 'true'; -it is impossible to say".

It is not philosophy. It is more like exercises
in anti-method-acting. In method-acting you put
old emotions in new bottles.
In the 4th way you are supposed to observe
that we are doing that all the time anyway,
--automatically, mechanically. And that
this is what makes our lives feel so inauthentic.

'Self-remembering' is also like mantras in meditation
in another way, --in that you can't force it by dint of will-power.
The only thing you can do, -the only real 'discipline of the 4th way,
is to notice when you've lost the thread and "gone under", -"asleep",
-and when you "come out" of the spell, and "wake up".
You can only just gently redirect your attention back onto the thread.
And, as with meditation, the positive results can be dramatic.
And, as with meditation, it is very hard to do, but only because
it requires virtually no effort. It's just subtle and easy
to loose sight of.

~~
quote from Colin Wilson's "The Outsider" follows ...
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~greg
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Post by ~greg »

In 'The Outsider' Colin Wilson wrote: CHAPTER NINE

BREAKING THE CIRCUIT

In the vault of Axel's castle, Sara and the young Count Axel
stand clasped in one another's arms. Sara has just shot at Axel
with two pistols at a distance of five yards, but missed him both times.
Sara rhapsodizes about the 'world' which they now hold in their hands:
the markets of Baghdad, the snows of Tibet, the fjords of Norway,
'all dreams to realize'. But Axel, 'grave and impenetrable', asks her:
'Why realize them? . . . Live? No, our existence is full. The future?
Sara, believe me when I say it-we have exhausted the future.
All the realities, what will they be tomorrow in comparison with the
mirages we have just lived ? . . . The quality of our hope no longer
allows us the earth. What can we ask from this miserable star
where our melancholy lingers on, save pale reflections of this moment?
... It is the Earth - don't you see-that has become illusion.
Admit, Sara, we have destroyed in our strange hearts the love of life.
... To consent, after this, to live would only be a sacrilege against
ourselves. Live ? our servants will do that for us....
Oh, the external world! Let us not be made dupes by the old slave
. . . who promises us the keys to a palace of enchantments,
when he only clutches a handful of ashes in his black fist____'

Sara is convinced; they drink the goblet of poison together
and die in ecstasy. There can be no doubt what Nietzsche's
comment on this scene would have been; Axel, like his creator,
is the most extreme type of other-worlder, and other-worlders
are 'poisoners, whether they know it or not'.

Yet is this quite fair ? Nietzsche himself began as an other-worlder,
agreeing with Schopenhauer that 'Life is a sorry affair', and that
the best way to spend it is in reflecting on it. We began this study
of the Outsider with a man who spent his evenings looking through
a hole in his wall and 'reflecting' on what he saw. Van Gogh retired
from life when he spent his days painting in the yellow house at Aries;
Gauguin went to the South Seas pursuing the same dream,
'luxe, calme et volupte. And even Zarathustra councilled self-surmounters
to 'fly to solitude' and escape the stings of the 'flies in the market-place'
(i.e. other men). No, Axel is on the right path, even if killing himself
is a poor way out. 'What can we hope from this miserable star . . . ?'
But Sara has just spoken of 'the pale roads of Sweden' and the fjords
of Norway. A visionary like Van Gogh would find a great deal to hope
from such a world. It is the world of human beings that Axel
is condemning. Other people are the trouble.
...
...
The argument of this book has come almost its full circle.
It is not my aim to propound a complete and infallible solution
to 'the Outsider's problems', but only to point out that traditional
solutions, or attempts at solutions, do exist.

Before we turn to T. E. Hulme and his prediction of 'the end of humanism',
there is one more modern attempt at a solution which is far too important
to exclude from a study in the Outsider's problems. This is the 'system'
of that strange man of genius, George Gurdjieff.
...
...
Gurdjieff's system can be regarded as the complete, ideal Existenzphilosophie.
It is not interested in ideas for their own sake, but only in results. Therefore,
the 'system' itself consists of various disciplines and exercises, which,
at the moment, are known only known to Gurdjieff's pupils and followers.
It is only with some of the 'theoretical' part of the 'system' that we
are concerned here.

Gurdjieff's starting-point is the completely deluded state of man; man, he claims,
is so completely embalmed and enmeshed in delusions that he cannot even
be considered as a living being; he can only be regarded as a machine.
He has, in other words, absolutely no free-will.

This seems to be no more than the blackest pessimism, but this is not the whole.
Having emphasized that men are virtually asleep, mere sleep-walkers without
real consciousness, he goes on to state that man can attain a degree of freedom
and 'awakening': but the first step in attaining 'freedom' is to recognize that you are
not free. Since we have spent some nine chapters listening to Outsiders
emphasizing just this fact, this should present no difficulties to us.
A part of Gurdjieff's system is a method of observing oneself and other people,
and recognizing how many actions are habitual, mechanical.

One of the most interesting points in Gurdjieff's system, from our point of view,
is his exposition of 'three ways', the way of the fakir, the way of the monk,
the way of the yogi. For these are the three ways we established in Chapter IV:
discipline over the body, the emotions, the mind. But what is most interesting
is that Gurdjieff claims that his system is a fourth way which involves all
the other three. Gurdjieff's 'school' in the South of France was called
'The Institute for the Harmonious Development of Man',
harmonious development of the three parts. Obviously, Gurdjieff's system
and the Outsider have the same aim.

In my own copy of Ouspensky's book, I have gone through the Contents list,
labelling various chapters 'philosophical' or 'psychological'. The 'philosophical' '
parts may or may not be 'true'; it is impossible to say. Such a statement,
for instance, as that the moon is a younger earth, and the earth a younger
sun, and that the planetary bodies are living beings, just as we are,
can be taken with a pinch of salt or not, according to the reader's inclination.
But there can be no doubt whatever about Gurdjieff's astounding penetration
as a psychologist; and it is here that he touches the field of this book.

Gurdjieff teaches that there are four possible states of consciousness.
The first is ordinary sleep. The second is the condition in which the ordinary
bourgeois spends his life, the state which is called - ironically, Gurdjieff thinks
- 'waking consciousness'. The third state is called 'self-remembering'
(which we shall define in a moment), the fourth, 'objective consciousness'.

From our point of view, 'self-remembering' is the most important state.
We have seen in the course of this study many Outsiders experiencing
this state. Perhaps the best example is Steppenwolf in bed with Maria;
Yeats in the 'crowded London shop' is another.

Ouspensky explains 'self-remembering' with great clarity.
Normally, when you are looking at some physical object,
the attention points outwards, as it were, from you to the object.
When you become absorbed in some thought or memory,
the attention points inwards. Now sometimes, very occasionally,
the attention points both outwards and inwards at the same time,
and these are moments when you say, 'What I, really here?':
an intense consciousness of yourself and your surroundings.
(A fine example in literature is Olenin's first sight of the mountains
in Tolstoy's Cossacks, a moment of complete self-remembering.)
Ouspensky says: 'Moments of self-remembering came either in new
and unexpected surroundings, in a new place, among new people,
while travelling for instance . . . or in very emotional moments,
moments of danger, etc' Self-remembering can be produced
by a deliberate discipline, but it is very difficult. Try, as an
experiment, looking at your watch, and then, while your attention
is concentrated on seeing the time, try to become aware
of yourself looking at the watch. A moment will come during which
you are aware of both the watch and yourself, but it will not last
more than a few seconds. You will either become aware only
of yourself looking, or only of the dial of the watch. That moment
of self-awareness, looking at the watch and at yourself,
is Gurdjieff's third state. (And, of course, people who are
incorrigible self-dramatizers, like the young Nietzsche,
are only trying to get themselves 'outside' the situation,
and to see themselves in the situation objectively.)

To express it in the Outsider's way: we identify ourselves with
our personalities; our identities are like the pane of a window
against which we are pressed so tightly that we cannot feel
our separateness from it. Self-remembering is like standing back,
so you can see 'yourself' (the window-pane) and the outside
world, distinct from 'you'. Ouspensky relates how deliberate
exercises in self-remembering produced strange intensities of
feeling. Obviously, he had found one solution that the Outsider
has overlooked. * {footnote}

* {footnote}
'I was once walking along the Liteiny towards the Nevsky,
and in spite of all my efforts, I was unable to keep my attention
on self-remembering. The noise, movement, everything distracted me.
Every minute I lost the thread of attention, found it again,
and then lost it again. At last, I felt a kind of ridiculous irritation
with myself, and I turned into the street on the left, having
determined to keep my attention on the fact that
I would remember myself at least for some time,
at any rate until I reached the following street.
I reached the Nadejdinskaya without losing the thread of attention,
except, perhaps, for short moments. Then I again turned towards
the Nevsky still remembering myself, and was already beginning to
experience the strange emotional state of inner peace and confidence
which comes after great efforts of this kind.
{ My {Wilson's} italics. }
Just round the corner, on the Nevsky, was a tobacconist's shop
where they made my cigarettes. Still remembering myself,
I thought I would call there and order some cigarettes.

'Two hours later, I woke up in the Tavricheskaya,
that is, far away. I was going by carriage to the printers.
The sensation of awakening was extraordinarily vivid.
I can almost say that I came to. I remembered everything at once.
How I had been walking along the Nadejdinskaya, how I had been
remembering myself, how I had thought about cigarettes,
and how at this thought I seemed all at once to fall and
disappear into a deep sleep.

'At the same time, while immersed in this sleep,
I had continued to perform consistent and expedient actions.
I left the tobacconist, called at my flat in the Liteiny, telephoned
to the printers. . . . On the way, while driving along the Tavricheskaya,
I began to feel a strange uneasiness, as though I had forgotten
something. And suddenly I remembered that I had forgotten
to remember myself
.'
{ Ouspensky: In Search of the Miraculous, p. 120.)

Gurdjieff also points out that man wastes an appalling
amount of energy in what he calls 'negative emotion', like
fear, disgust, anger, and so on. These emotions, he claims,
are completely unnecessary to the economy of the human
machine, and are as wasteful as tossing a match into a heap of
gun-powder. Negative emotion is just an accident that
sabotages the human energy-factory.

Man also has various 'centres':
an emotional centre, a 'moving' centre (which does all the work
connected with the body's movements) an intellectual centre
and an instinctive centre. He also has a sexual centre,
and two higher centres of which he knows almost nothing,
since they work deep in the unconscious mind
(although mere glimpses of these centres have been
the 'visions' of saints). Man tends to mix up all the centres,
and to use the energy intended for the moving centre on
emotions, or that of the emotional centre on intellect,
or that of the instinctive centre on sex; and, apparently,
all the centres tend to steal the energy of the sexual centre,
and give it in return a type of energy that is practically
of no use to it ('It is a very great thing when the sexual centre
works with its own energy,' Gurdjieff told Ouspensky).
An important part of Gurdjieff's system is his method
for observing the centres, and recognizing what should be
the distinctive work of each.

But the main difficulty which the system must combat is man's
tendency to sleep, to do things mechanically.
The world has no meaning for us because we do all things
mechanically. One day we are inspired by some poem
or piece of music or picture, and the whole world is suddenly
ten times as real, as meaningful, for us. The next day
we re-read the poem, or hear the music again,
and we have got used to it and hear it 'mechanically'.

But other actions in everyday life are best done mechanically.
I can type this page at a reasonable speed because the work
has been taken over from my intellectual centre (which did all
the work of learning to type) to my moving centre, which does it
far more efficiently. If all the centres did their own work there would be
no waste of energy, and maximum intensity of consciousness
could be achieved.

The final 'maximum intensity' would be the limit of man's possible evolution
(q.v. Ouspensky's slim volume, The Psychology of Man's Possible Evolution).
In its aim (higher consciousness) and the primacy it gives to the concept
of evolution, Gurdjieff's philosophy has obvious features in common
with Shaw's, the difference being that Shaw sets no limit to possible
development: 'As to what may he beyond, the eyesight of Lilith
is too short. It is enough that there is a beyond'. One day
'ages yet', pure mind 'might roll unchecked over the place
where the material world had been, and God would move
upon the face of those waters'. This is T. E. Lawrence,
and it is pure Shavianism, but it is not Gurdjieff.
Gurdjieff deliberately limits the aim: the first step
is to break the sleep of hypnosis under which all men live.
He has a parable to illustrate it:
There is an Eastern tale that speaks about a very rich
magician who had a great many sheep. But at the same time
this magician was very mean. He did not want to hire shepherds,
nor did he want to erect a fence about the pasture where the sheep
were grazing. The sheep consequently often wandered into the forest,
fell into ravines and so on, and above all, they ran away,
for they knew that the magician wanted their flesh and their skins,
and this they did not like.

At last the magician found a remedy. He hypnotized his sheep
and suggested to them, first of all, that they were immortal
and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned;
that on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant;
secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master
who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything
in the world for them; and in the third place, he suggested
that if anything at all were going to happen to them,
it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day,
and therefore they had no need to think about it.
Further, the magician suggested to his sheep that they
were not sheep at all; to some of them he suggested
that they were lions, to some that they were eagles,
to some that they were men, to others that they were
magicians.

After this all his cares and worries about the sheep came to an end.
They never ran away again, but quietly awaited the time
when the magician would require their flesh and skins.

This tale is a very good illustration of man's position.

{-P.D. Ouspensky, In Search of the Miraculous, p 219 }

And in an earlier passage, Gurdjieff speaks with the
authentic accents of mystical religion:
[ Man ] is attached to everything in his life;
attached to his imagination, attached to his stupidity,
attached even to his suffering - possibly to his suffering
more than anything else.

He must free himself from attachment. Attachment to things,
identification with things keeps alive a thousand 'I's' in a man.
These 'I's' must die in order that the big I may be born.
But how can they be made to die? ... It is at this point
that the possibility of awakening comes to the rescue.
To awaken means to realize one's nothingness, that is, to
realize one's complete and absolute mechanicalness,
and one's complete and absolute helplessness. ...
So long as a man is not horrified at himself,
he knows nothing about himself.
{ Ibid., p. 218 }
And again:
One must die all at once and forever.. ..

St. John of the Cross expresses it:

Vivo sin vivir en mi
Y de tal manera espero
Que muero porque no muero.


I live, but there's no life in me
And in such a hopeful way
I die because I do not die.18

{ Poems of St. John of the Cross, p. 28 }
In All and Everything, Gurdjieff explains man's bondage
in a slightly more complex way, but it is significant for us
because it is obviously an attempt to recreate a legend
of Original Sin. He explains that some cosmic catastrophe
knocked two pieces off the earth, which became two satellites,
the moon and another smaller moon which men have forgotten
(although it still exists). These two moons, as part of the parent body,
had to be sustained by 'food' sent from the earth
(I have mentioned that Gurdjieff considers the heavenly bodies
to be alive), and this 'food' is a sort of cosmic ray manufactured
by human beings. In other words, the only purpose of human beings
is to manufacture 'food' for the moon.

But human beings were, not unnaturally, irritated by this
completely subject-role they were expected to play in the
solar system. As they began to develop 'objective reason'
(Gurdjieff's fourth state of consciousness), their chafing
became a danger to the existence of the moon.
A special commission of archangels decided to put a stop
to the development of objective reason. So they implanted
in man an organ, called Kundabuffer, whose special function
was to make men perceive fantasy as actuality.
And from that day onward men have been enmeshed
in their own dreams, and admirably serve their function
of providing food for the moon. Unfortunately, their inability
to see things objectively is leading them to selfdestruction
at an appalling pace. It is necessary for at least a few men
to develop a new type of consciousness, to develop it slowly,
painfully, instinctively, without understanding what is happening
to him. Would not such a man be a complete Outsider?

They are all asleep. This is the point to which Gurdjieff returns
again and again. They must be made to feel the urgency
of the need to wake up.
And after the legend of the magician,
to call the mass of contented bourgeois 'sheep' has a new
and terrible significance. At the end of All and Everything,
the grandson of the 'all-wise Beelzebub' (Gurdjieff's mouthpiece)
asks whether it is still possible to save mankind and 'direct them
to the becoming path'. Beelzebub answers: 'The sole means
of saving the beings of the planet Earth would be to implant
again into their presences a new organ ... like Kundabuffer,...
of such properties that everyone should sense . . . the inevitability
of his own death, as well as the death of everyone upon whom
his eyes or attention rest.'17
{ Gurdjieff, All and Everything, p. 1183 }

It is again the religious injunction:
Remember thy last things.... But we can see now
just how irrelevant is the idea of 'an allegorical abode
where existence hath never come'. It is existence that counts.
Man must live more; he must be more. And for this,
he must be endlessly conscious of the principle of limitation.
'There is a definite time, a definite term, for everything,'
Gurdjieff told Ouspensky. 'Possibilities for everything
exist only for a definite time.'
...
...

"Possibilities for everything exist only for a definite time."

- that's why I posted this.
User avatar
~greg
Posts: 818
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2004 9:26 am

Post by ~greg »

I got what I quote at the bottom here from a pdf file.
This is mainly an excercise in using Abbyy PDF Transformer,
and my Multi-Edit script for inserting BBCode.
(-select text, click a button, and it inserts both opening
and closing tags around the selected text. Works pretty well!)

But I post this just to make it a little more likely
that anybody who ought to read this, will.

~~

The authors, Martin and Deidre Bobgan, seem to me
to have a very healthy attitude against pseudo-science.
And on that level I have to agree with most of what they say.

But what is interesting to me is that they are
Christians attacking other Christians, and so
they feel that it's necessary to go on and on,
-and on and on and on and on,
-about why these things are pseudo-science.

Most of the writers I tend to read would never bother doing that,
because it just isn't necessary for their readers.
What's interesting is that mystics apparently do not feel
as threatened by science as they do by pseudo-science,
and other mystics.

~~

Oddly what I really disagree with Martin and Bobgan
about is their take on St Paul.

There are 13 epistles in the New Testament
that state the author as "Paul". But no one,
other than brain-dead fanatical fundamentalists,
actually think that they are all equally authentically
Pauline. (--called "inerrancy").

From somewhere on the web: ...
The authorship of the epistles is of particular importance
when studying what the Christian Scriptures (New Testament)
have to say about the role and status of women."
...
... Then, the only references left in the New Testament that
negatively affect feminine roles and status would be found
in Paul's 1 Corinthians. If one considers that some of the
1 Corinthians anti-equality passages in may have contained
later forged inserts, then one might argue that the valid
Christian Scriptures promote gender equality. "
- http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_ntb3.htm
In particular it is obvious to me that
1 Corinthians Ch 11 is a "later forged insertion".

Which is incredibly obvious if you read 1 Corinthians straight through.
The feeling you get is that this simply can not be the same author
- the same 'Paul' - who wrote what came before it. .

Thus in 1 Corinthians Ch 7 "Paul" writes:
1
Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me:
It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
2
Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife,
and let every woman have her own husband.
3
Let the husband render unto the wife due benevolence:
and likewise also the wife unto the husband.
4
The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband:
and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife.
6
But I speak this by permission, and not of commandment.
etc. i.e. -- Absolute equality between the sexes.

(aside:
item '6' there is very interesting.

Earlier, in a long difficult to follow tirade,
"Paul" is "clearly" condemning things like homosexuality.
But if you listen carefully, it's not nearly as simple as that.
And in particular he goes on to say that the real sin is
the judging of others, -even claiming it as commandment
not to judge others. And the overriding impression I get
is that he really means to include his previous statements
against homosexuality as exactly this kind of sinful judgment.
Which is the exact opposite of what many people
say he said. He certainly advises, for our own good,
against associating with certain kinds of people.
But he also definitely condemns against judging them!
This is what I always thought was meant by the
"original sin"- the "knowledge of good and evil".
That the real "sin" is the one committed by those
who claim to know the difference between good and evil
- the ones who judge others - because judgement
is for God only.)

The "Paul" of those quotes is insisting on the absolute equality
between the sexes - using the rhetorical device of parallelism
- "recurrent syntactical similarity. Several parts of a sentence
or several sentences are expressed similarly to show that
the ideas in the parts or sentences are equal in importance.
Parallelism also adds balance and rhythm and, most importantly,
clarity to the sentence. "
- http://www.virtualsalt.com/rhetoric.htm#Parallelism

And in general this particular "Paul" is an astonishingly good writer,
- who uses very sharp (if bizarrely un-Greek) logic.
He is a very reasonable and gentle fellow.

But the "Paul" of 1 Corinthians Ch 11 is a very different "Paul" indeed.
An extremely bad writer, - vague, -nonsensical, -illogical (-by any kind of logic,)
- quite clearly insane.
And pathologically misogynistic!
3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;
and the head of the woman is the man;
and the head of Christ is God.

4
Every man praying or prophesying,
having his head covered,
dishonoureth his head.

5
But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered
dishonoureth her head:
for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6
For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn:
but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven,
let her be covered.

7
For a man indeed ought not to cover his head,
forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God:
but the woman is the glory of the man.

8
For the man is not of the woman:
but the woman of the man.

9
Neither was the man created for the woman;
but the woman for the man.

10
For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head
because of the angels.

11
Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman,
neither the woman without the man,
in the Lord.

12
For as the woman is of the man,
even so is the man also by the woman;
but all things of God.

13
Judge in yourselves:
is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?

14
Doth not even nature itself teach you, that,
if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15
But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her:
for her hair is given her for a covering.

16
But if any man seem to be contentious,
we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
If this is really is the same person,
then it had to have been the earlier "Paul",
- "Paul" the persecutor.

(--His first three years of "ministry" were in Arabia.
So perhaps, -just perhaps, - these earlier attitudes
found their way from that "Paul", into Islam. )


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The following is the contents of the pdf found here:
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/bkchapt.html
http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/images/Pro2_14.pdf
Chapter Fourteen of Prophets of PsychoHeresy II

Gary Smalley and Dr. John Trent:
Right-Brain/Left Brain Pseudoscience

(The following is excerpted from the book Prophets of PsychoHeresy II
by Martin and Deidre Bobgan,
which is now out-of-print.)


~~~~

Gary Smalley has a bachelor's degree in psychology;
John Trent has a Ph. D. in marriage and family counseling.
Both have gone to seminary and therefore serve as "good" examples of amalgamania.
Amalgamania is the title of one of the chapters of our book PsychoHeresy.1

By amalgamania we mean the zealous practice of integrating psychology
and the Bible in order to help people better understand their problems
and to provide solutions for them. Actually all of the psychologists we discuss
are amalgamators, but the ones who have theological training as well as
psychological training are most culpable.

Smalley and Trent have written a number of books.
One of their books, titled The Language of Love,2
is published and promoted by Focus on the Family.
This book is another example of what Dobson supports and promotes.
Smalley and Trent discuss this book with Dobson on his radio broadcast.
The title of the broadcast is "Learning to Communicate."3
On the broadcast Dobson strongly supports and endorses The Language of Love
and the work of Smalley and Trent. The information given on the broadcast
is similar to that in the book.

In The Language of Love Smalley and Trent present a technique
which utilizes "word pictures."
On the radio broadcast Smalley says:
It's a language method where, for example, a woman can say basically
whatever she wants to her husband and he'll not only understand her instantly,
but he'll literally be able to feel her feelings."4
If you read this last statement carefully, word for word, you will see
that it contains an extreme promise. Is the promise true?
We shall see.

Smalley and Trent tell us that to communicate effectively with others
we must paint a picture in their minds by using stories. They indicate
that word pictures are found throughout Scripture and that
"word pictures tap into the right side of the brain."5

Their system is based upon what they believe to be scientific information
about the two hemispheres of the brain. But, as we shall show, their techniques
are built upon a false foundation and should therefore be ignored.

Smalley and Trent's theme is that males are mostly left-brained
and females are mostly right-brained.
They say:
What occurs in the womb merely sets the stage for men and women
to "specialize" in two different ways of thinking. . . . The left brain houses
more of the logical, analytical, factual, and aggressive centers of thought.
It's the side of the brain most men reserve for the majority of their waking hours. . . .
On the other hand, most women spend the majority of their days and nights
camped out on the right side of the brain. It's the side that harbors the center
for feelings, as well as the primary relational, language, and communication skills;
enables them to do fine-detail work; sparks imagination; and makes an afternoon
devoted to art and fine music actually enjoyable.6
They also say:
If a woman truly expects to have meaningful communication with her husband,
she must activate the right side of his brain. And if a man truly wants to communicate
with his wife; he must enter her world of emotion.7 (Emphasis theirs.)
Many Christians believe in the right-brain/left-brain pseudoscience.
They followed in the wake of the first flush of false teaching generated
by incomplete findings having to do with persons with brain damage.
Then without further ado, they embrace the implications, label them science,
use them to support their own ideas, and bring them right into the church.

Nobelist Dr. Roger Sperry says, "The left-right dichotomy . . .
is an idea with which it is easy to run wild."8
Sperry also says:
The more we learn, the more we recognize the unique complexity
of any one individual intellect and the stronger the conclusion becomes
that the individuality inherent in our brain networks makes that of fingerprints
or facial features gross and simple by comparison.9
Dr. Michael Gazzaniga, in a book titled The Social Brain,
has a chapter titled "Left-Brain, Right-Brain Mania: A Debunking."
He says:
Where does all of this conjecture come from?
How did some laboratory findings of limited generality
get so outrageously misinterpreted? Why were they picked up
so hungrily by the press and then embraced by every sort
of scientific dilettante?

There are several reasons. The left-brain/right-brain dichotomy
was simple and understandable and provided a way to talk about
modern brain research and how it applied to everyday experience.
Certainly no one was going to argue that people have artistic-intuitive skills
and logical-linguistic skills. Prima facie there are manifestly different activities
of mind. So science is used to prove that one set of skills is in the left brain
and another in the right, which in turn proves that mental skills are different,
and therefore able to be differentially trained. The image of one part of the brain
doing one thing and the other part something entirely different was there,
and that it was a confused concept seemed to make no difference. . . .

The runaway fervor for such ideas relates, in part, to the difficulty
in communicating scientific ideas to the general public.
To really understand concepts arising out of experimental data
is a serious business, and most people do not have the time
or interest to assess information at that level. There is an extensive
and usually foreign vocabulary to learn. The necessary qualifying
remarks and constraints on the ideas prove to be too much of a burden
for the potential audience. So scientific journalism purveys its stories
on simple-to-understand claims that most people can relate to,
preferably at a personal level. This wouldn't matter for the present story
except for the fact that the distortions get in the way of why split-brain patients
are truly interesting. And the oversimplifications and outright erroneous information
have also tended to trivialize the complexity of the integrated processes
of our minds
.10 (Emphasis added.)
In conclusion to the chapter, Gazzaniga says:
By the late 1960s and early 1970s the realization was spreading that the
simple dichotomies of that time did little to advance knowledge about how cognitive
systems work. Neuropsychology was at risk. Isolating mental systems or claiming
that isolated mental systems process information differently does not really
illuminate the nature of cognition.11
Christians as well as non-Christians use the hemispheres
to describe personality types. The so-called left-brain person
is thought to be linear, logical, analytical, and unemotional;
and the right-brained person is thought to be spatial, creative, mystical,
intuitive, and emotional. While such adjectives may describe people
to various degrees during various activities and in different work or social
situations, this certainly is no basis for knowing or understanding an individual.
However, personality typologies are always popular
even though they are as spurious as the astrological signs.

While brain research has shown some particular areas of strengths
of one hemisphere over the other, Dr. Georg Deutsch of the University
of Texas Medical Branch in Galveston says that "differences within
a hemisphere account for more than differences between them."12
Neurologist Dr. John Mazziotta at the UCLA School of Medicine says:
Even on the most trivial tasks our studies showed that everything in the brain
was in flux----both sides, the front and back, the top and bottom. It was tremendously
complicated. To think that you could reduce this to a simple left-right dichotomy
would be misleading and oversimplified
.13 (Emphasis added.)
And while each hemisphere may specialize in certain activities,
the only clear-cut function which only one side seems to have is related to speaking.
The left hemisphere seems to control the muscles of the vocal tract.
And that has to do with muscle control instead of emotional or cognitive functions.14

While Smalley claims that emotions are right-brain activities,
they involve both hemispheres, though each hemisphere
"seems to be more in control of different subsets of emotions,
the left hemisphere being biased toward the positive and
the right toward the negative emotions."15

Dr. Jerre Levy, a biopsychologist at the University of Chicago, contends:
The two-brain myth was founded on an erroneous premise:
that since each hemisphere was specialized, each must function
as an independent brain. But in fact, just the opposite is true.
To the extent that regions are differentiated in the brain, they must
integrate their activities. Indeed, it is precisely that integration that
gives rise to behavior and mental processes greater than and different
from each region's contribution. Thus, since the central premise
of the mythmakers is wrong, so are all the inferences derived from it
.16
(Emphasis added)
We are not surprised when the whole world is deceived.
Nor are we shocked when New Age promoters use the pseudoscience
of brain hemisphere dichotomy to give a semblance of substance
to their desires to market intuition, creativity, visualization, and mystical experience.
What we are concerned about is Christians embracing and enthusiastically teaching
myth as fact. We are alarmed when those who purport to speak for God
use such "science falsely so-called" (1 Timothy 6:20)
and "philosophies and vain deceit, after the tradition of men,
after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ" (Colossians 2:8).

In his article titled "Neurobabble," Dr. Laurence Miller says:
Brain research will continue to make genuine contributions to the quality
of life, but it will be by way of an understanding and respect for the complex
facts of neuroscience, not through the simplistic and potentially misleading
efforts of the current crop of whole-brain half-wittedness.17
Rather than checking the accuracy of statements about right and left brain research
and conclusions, too many have moved into the never never land of fantasy.
Not only are their assumptions erroneous from a logical point of view;
they have no support in Scripture.

Specifically Smalley and Trent not only promote left-brained, right-brained pseudoscience,
but they also declare that men are mostly left-brained and women are mostly right brained.
They say: "Specifically, medical studies have shown that between the eighteenth
and twenty-sixth week of pregnancy, something happens that forever separates the sexes."18
Their footnote refers to a book by Dr. Richard Restak titled The Brain, page 43.
In checking this out we found nothing on page 43 which would support this statement.
We are not saying that the statement does not exist, only that it does not exist
where they say it does. However, Restak, the author of the book quoted by Smalley
and Trent, does say: "Although distinct anatomical differences between the brains
of men and women are strongly suspected, no convincing proof has been found."19
(Emphasis added.)

In addition Restak says:
. . . . no one has as yet convincingly demonstrated an anatomic difference
between the brain structures of human males and females. These behavioral
differences may be the result of chemical changes in brain function resulting
from the influence of sex hormones in early prenatal development.20
Compare the above statement with what Smalley and Trent say.
Restak is saying that there may or may not be "an anatomic difference
between the brain structures of human males and females."
Also, sex differences may or may not "be the result of chemical changes
in brain function resulting from the influence of sex hormones in early
prenatal development."

Beryl Lieff Benderly is a contributing editor of Psychology Today
and author of The Myth of Two Minds: What Gender Means and Doesn't Mean.
In a section titled "Making too Much of Too Little," Benderly discusses the fact that
the gender differences in spatial and verbal abilities are small.
She says:
Anne Fausto-Sterling, a medical sciences professor at Brown University,
notes that male and female spatial and verbal abilities in fact constitute "majorly
overlapping curves. It is absolutely false, just wrong" to claim that either
sex's performance is always better than the other. "More than half the time
there's no difference."

What's more, "the variation from one woman to another woman,
or one man to another man, is much larger than the average difference
between the sexes," says University of Chicago biopsychology professor
Jerre Levy, whose main area of research is the differences and interactions
between the left and right sides of the brain. "Naturally occurring individual
differences among people are just huge."21
Dr. Anne Fausto-Sterling examines some of the purported differences
between men and women in her book Myths of Gender.
She says that the differences in verbal and spatial skills are quite small.
In explaining that she says:
. . . if one looks at the variation (from lowest to highest performance)
of spatial ability in a mixed population of males and females, 5 percent of it
at most can be accounted for on the basis of sex. The other 95 percent of the
variation is due to individual differences that have nothing to do with being
male or female.22
Because of more differences existing between persons within one gender than
between males and females, Dr. Ruth Bleier, in her book Science and Gender,
says:
. . . whatever characteristic is being measured, the range of variation
is far greater among males or among females than between the two sexes.
There is, in fact, far greater scientific and perhaps social justification for exploring
and trying to understand the vast variance among individuals than the elusive,
tiny variances between the sexes that elicit far greater attention and expenditure
of research resources than they merit."23
And, Benderly makes a valid statistical point when she says:
And, finally, a finding of statistical significance doesn't mean that
a difference is large enough to have any practical effect; it merely discounts
chance as a cause.24
Dr. Sally Springer and Dr. Georg Deutsch, in a book titled Left Brain, Right Brain,
discuss the various research studies and available information on split-brain research
as it applies to the two hemispheres of the brain.
They say:
Our review of data from split-brain subjects has led us to the conclusion
that hemispheric specialization is not an all-or-none phenomenon but, rather,
falls on a continuum.25
In their conclusion regarding sex differences, Springer and Deutsch say:
There is a great deal of overlap in the distribution of ability across
men and women. Some women have better spatial abilities than most men,
while some men have better verbal skills than most women.26
Dr. Elaine Showalter is the author of The Female Malady. She says,
"Surely the rising star of body parts in the 1980s is the right brain."27
Further she says: "The right-brain school represents post-Aquarian
fascination with alternative, especially Oriental, ways of knowing,
and with androgyny." She refers to how some have accused
Western society of being left-brained and overlooking the
"intuitive mystical right brain" and says:
In the 1980's, pop psychologists have capitalized on these
metaphysical speculations to market the right brain as a new target
of opportunity like the G-spot. However out of shape, they tell us,
your right brain can be pumped up in mental aerobics.
The whole-brain pop industry is still perpetuating outrageous
stereotypes in pseudo-scientific vocabulary.28
An example is a recent advertisement for a book titled Right Brain Sex.29

Because of the exploitation connected to misinformation promoted in such
"pseudo-scientific vocabulary," Showalter believes that people need to be
warned that "the functions of the brain's hemispheres, like other kinds
of division of labor, are likely to be far more complicated than the simple,
seductive division into left and right can explain."30 Unfortunately for many
Christians, when Smalley and Trent employ "pseudo-scientific vocabulary"
they give credence to ideas and practices that oppose the truth of God's Word.

There is no indication in Scripture of a woman's brain being superior
to a man's brain. Furthermore, the man is to be the head of the woman
just as Christ is the head of the church (I Corinthians 11:3).

{my emphasis. ~greg}
While this is not a position of a superior brain; neither would it be
a position of an inferior brain. It is also amazing to imagine that
the Psalms could have been written by men who were, by Smalley and
Trent's reasoning, affectively defective. The Psalms and Song of Solomon
reveal a great variety of the feelings both felt and expressed by men.
After interviewing several researchers in the field, Kevin McKean says:
The problem arises when the right-brain movement implies that its
conclusions are based on hard fact, rather than an essentially metaphorical
interpretation of scientific discoveries. The differences between
the hemispheres are still not well understood, and Gazzaniga, like Springer,
says that the newest research tends to emphasize the way the two cooperate
with one another during the normal functioning, rather than how they differ.31
McKean also says:
Scientists are understandably annoyed when they see careful
but often inconclusive work popularized and exploited so glibly.
As Deutsch puts it: "I get bothered by people saying,
'This is all based on neurological theory, therefore it's true.'
It's not legitimized by neurological theory. There is no evidence
that people favor one portion of the brain or the other
----that's pure speculation
."32 (Emphasis added)
This same right-brain female/left-brain male nonsense is promoted by Dobson
in an interview with Dr. Donald Joy. Smalley and Trent credit Joy as being
the source of their right/left brain information. Joy is introduced as
"a good friend and frequent visitor to Focus on the Family." The title
of the program is "The Innate Differences between Males and Females."
During the broadcast Joy promotes some of the same pseudoscience.
Joy says:
The female brain is a brain that's not damaged during fetal development
as the male brain is. . . .The damage occurs to the male brain during the sixteenth
to the twenty-sixth week of fetal development. At that time a chemical bath is given
to the left hemisphere and the connecting link between the two hemispheres
that reduces the size and number of transmission passages that exist there
for what's called lateral transmission. So males simply can't talk to themselves
across the hemispheres in a way that a woman does.33
A similar statement is made by another one of Dobson's favorites,
H. Norman Wright, on a different Focus on the Family interview.
Wright is a former pastor turned psychologist who packages and
prolifically promotes psychology. In the interview Wright says:
One of the unique differences between men and women
is that women use both sides of their brain at the same time
because of the thousands of additional nerve connectors that are there.
Men have to shift from one side of the brain to the other.
They're working out of the analytical, the left side, and if they have to move into
the emotional area they drop that and move toward the right side. . . . Men tend
to be single minded. They get involved in one thing. And women have more of
a capability of juggling.34
What Joy and Wright say is similar to what Smalley and Trent say:
The human brain is divided into two halves, or hemispheres, connected by
fibrous tissue called the corpus callosum. The sex-related hormones and
chemicals that flood a baby boy's brain cause the right side to recede slightly,
destroying some of the connecting fibers. One result is that, in most cases,
a boy starts life more left-brain oriented.

Because little girls don't experience this chemical bath, they leave the starting
blocks much more two-sided in their thinking.35
In contrast, researchers Dr. Melissa Hines and Dr. Roger Gorski, from the Department
of Anatomy at the University of California at Los Angeles, say:
As is true of most behavioral and neural sex differences in people,
sex differences in asymmetries are small. . . .. . . sex differences in neural
asymmetries appear to be very complex. One sex is not simply more lateralized
than the other. Rather, males seem to be more lateralized than females in some
respects; females seem to be more lateralized than males in other respects;
and the sexes seem to be equally lateralized in still other respects.36

What has happened with Smalley and Trent, as well as with Joy and Wright,
is that they dichotomize differences in a way that the research does not permit.
Smalley, Trent, Joy, and Wright, with Dobson's support and advertising, promote
the type of left-brain/right-brain popular pseudoscience that the researchers
oppose. They claim differences that do not exist and they ignore overlapping
distributions that do exist. The misinformation and disinformation by such
popularizers of right-brain/left-brain mythology are a disservice to the church.
Hemisphericity and gender differences are far more complex than the
pseudo-pop-neurology propagated by Smalley, Trent, Joy, Wright, and Dobson.

Dobson's support of such error is one more link in the chain of his psychoheresy.
Brain research and the results of research are in a constant state of flux.
In reading the research, we see more suggestions of possible
conclusions than assertions of actual conclusions, more "it appears as if" than "it is so"
proclamations, as made by Smalley, Trent, Joy, Wright and Dobson.

Some feminists seem bent on proving that there are no differences.
And, other popularizers of pseudoscience, such as Smalley, Trent, Joy, Wright,
and Dobson, seem bent on propagating differences that have not been proven.
Underlying their unjustifiable conclusions seems to be a female brain superiority
which certainly appeals to the women who follow them.*
While the research seems to support some differences, they are
not the ones Smalley, Trent, Joy, Wright, and Dobson are promoting.
Notice our expression "research seems." Whenever individuals speak
with the certainty of these men in such an uncertain area, caveat emptor!
(Buyer, beware!)


* Al Dager has written a Media Spotlight Report titled "Gary Smalley:
The Psychology of Matriarchy." In the report Dager discusses Smalley and Trent's
book The Language of Love as well as two of Smalley's books titled
If He Only Knew and For Better or for Best. The Special Report
is available upon request from Media Spotlight Ministries,
P.O. Box 290, Redmond, WA 98073-0290.

1. Martin and Deidre Bobgan. PsychoHeresy:
The Psychological Seduction of Christianity. Santa Barbara, CA:
EastGate Publishers, 1987.
2. Gary Smalley and John Trent. The Language of Love. Pomona, CA:
Focus on the Family Publishing, 1988.
3. Gary Smalley, John Trent and James Dobson, "Learning to Communicate,"
Focus on the Family Radio Broadcast, CS 423.
4. Ibid.
5. Ibid., side 2.
6. Smalley and Trent, The Language of Love, op. cit., p. 36.
7. Ibid., p. 42.
8. Roger Sperry, "Some Effects of Disconnecting the Cerebral Hemispheres."
Science, Vol. 217, 24 September 1982, p. 1225.
9. Ibid.
10. Michael S. Gazzaniga. The Social Brain: Discovering the Networks of the Mind.
New York: Basic Books, Inc., Publishers, 1985, pp. 48-49.
11. Ibid.
12. George Deutsch quoted by Kevin McKean, "Of Two Minds: Selling the Right Brain,"
Discover, 1985, p. 38.
13. John Mazziotta quoted by Kevin McKean, ibid.
14. Terence Hines. Pseudoscience and the Paranormal. Buffalo:
Prometheus Books, 1988, pp. 298-299.
15. Ibid., p. 300.
16. Jerre Levy, "Right Brain, Left Brain: Fact and Fiction."
Psychology Today, May 1985, p. 43.
17. Laurence Miller, "Neurobabble." Psychology Today, April 1986, p. 72.
18. Smalley and Trent, The Language of Love, op. cit., p. 35.
19. Richard M. Restak. The Brain. New York: Bantam Books, 1984, p. 245.
20. Ibid., p. 244.
21. Beryl Lieff Benderly, "Don't Believe Everything You Read. . . ."
Psychology Today, November 1989, p. 68.
22. Anne Fausto-Sterling. Myths of Gender. New York: Basic Books, Inc.,
Publishers, 1985, p. 33.
23. Ruth Bleier. Science and Gender. New York: Pergamon Press, 1984, p. 109.
24. Benderly, op. cit., p. 68.
25. Sally P. Springer and Georg Deutsch. Left Brain, Right Brain.
New York: W. H. Freeman and Company, 1985, p. 64.
26. Ibid., p. 185.
27. Elaine Showalter, book review of Medicine, Mind, and the Double Brain
by Anne Harrington. New York Times Book Review,
October 11, 1987, p. 39.
28. Ibid., p. 69.
29. Carol G. Wells. Right Brain Sex. Prentice Hall Press.
(Advertised in the Los Angeles Times/Book Review.)
30. Showalter, op. cit., p. 69.
31. Kevin McKean, op. cit,., p. 40.
32. Ibid.
33. Donald Joy interview, "The Innate Differences between Males and Females,"
Focus on the Family Radio Broadcast, CS-099,
1984, 1986.
34. H. Norman Wright interview, "Understanding the Man in Your Life."
Focus on the Family Radio Broadcast, CS 374.
35. Smalley and Trent, The Language of Love, op. cit., p. 35.
36. Melissa Hines and Roger Gorski, ""Hormonal Influences on the Development
of Neural Asymmetries." The Dual Brain. New
York: The Guilford Press, 1985, pp. 79, 80.

Copyright © 1990 Martin and Deidre Bobgan
Published by EastGate Publishers Santa Barbara, California
Web site: http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org
Diane

Post by Diane »

This post is mainly for Diane (from the point where I quote her.
Blimey Greg, I've only scanned the top part of your offering so-far. I'll attempt to read and digest what you say over the coming days, although I was wondering if you have a paperback edition I could read, make it easier?
Left-brain right-brain pseudo-science
Yes, I know. Let's take 'right brain' and 'left brain' to be gross oversimplifications, or metaphors for certain types of thought. I realised a long time ago that psychology is impossible to understand; far too many variables. I wish I had studied physics, much lower down in the complexity of things, but sadly I never had the brain for it, right or left.
( --and yet it is hard to beat my favorite historical dame,
Lou Andreas Salome, for name dropping: she was
lover to Paul Ree, Rainer Maria Rilke, Sigmund Freud,
Friedrich Nietzsche, Carl Andreas, ... and Martin Buber,
among many others...)
As an aside, have you read When Nietszche Wept, by psychiatrist Irvin D Yalom? It's a novel exploring an imagined relationship between Neitzche and Josef Breur (one of the founders of psychoanalysis). The novel begins with Lou Salome begging Breuer to help treat Nietzche's suicidal despair. Quite a good yarn.
But none of that can help Diane"
Nothing can help me, Greg. It's a beautiful day when you realise that! What was it Leonard said, finally you stand and say 'I don't know a fucking thing, Hallelujah!' That doesn't stop me lapsing into deluded hope on a regular basis, mind you. So I look forward to reading your entertaining words.

Diane
Manna
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Post by Manna »

If I don't control myself, who does, and how can I kill him?
Golly, I never knew I was so creepy.

:lol: :wink: :lol:
lazariuk
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Post by lazariuk »

Manna wrote:If I don't control myself, who does, and how can I kill him?
Golly, I never knew I was so creepy.
You are just not being friendly. Thats hardly creepy.
Last edited by lazariuk on Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Hi Manna ~

I believe I'm missing something here... what is your most recent posting referring to? Is it something buried in Greg's lengthy postings, which I haven't had time to read, yet? If so, could you 'earmark' here what it is, so I'll be sure to watch for it? I've scrolled quickly three times, looking for your name, but didn't see it... so, I can see it's going to require closer inspection.

Thanks.


~ Lizzy
Manna
Posts: 1998
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 6:51 am
Location: Where clouds go to die

Post by Manna »

Jack,

Am I not being friendly, and also not being something else that isn't creepy? Please explain. Sorry, I thought I was just being goofy and maybe silly.

I can't find it quickly now, but I thought I read something here about how people don't have any control over anything, I don't remember the exact words - we're all a bunch of pupets- that kind of thing. idunno.

(Had to correct my typos. The space bar on this machine is not very responsive.)
Last edited by Manna on Tue Apr 03, 2007 1:50 am, edited 3 times in total.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Hi Manna ~

Are you talking to me or to Jack? I can't tell... and don't want to keep asking questions about this if it doesn't relate to me at all.

Thanks.


~ Lizzy
Manna
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Location: Where clouds go to die

Post by Manna »

I edited. Gotta run.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Oh, whew... thanks, Manna. Now, I can just let it go and let Jack answer. I'm sure you're fine and that he thinks you're fine... but, I'll sit back and let him tell you all that :D . He seems to have already begun :) .


~ Lizzy
lazariuk
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Post by lazariuk »

lizzytysh wrote:Oh, whew... thanks, Manna. Now, I can just let it go and let Jack answer. I'm sure you're fine and that he thinks you're fine... but, I'll sit back and let him tell you all that :D . He seems to have already begun :) .
I, like Manna, was being goofy and silly. Didn't mean to panic anyone. I think that everyone here is fine, even ~Greg.
lazariuk
Posts: 1952
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Post by lazariuk »

I edited too
Manna
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Location: Where clouds go to die

Post by Manna »

OK. I thought maybe that's what it was, but it's hard to tell the tone of voice when you're just reading. But I'm glad we're all cool. We are cool as... Oh, I can't think of anything good.
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