I think that a woman can never be depressed by a voluptuous voice of a man!
I love his humour, the alternation of his mood, the words that wink at me, his pure thoughts on cutting matters. I think he finally makes me smile.
Do leonard cohen fans favor sad songs?
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John Etherington
- Posts: 2605
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 10:17 pm
Sad/melancolic music
I think Yellowhe has a good point, here. My personal favourite artists include Leonard, Nick Drake, Scott Walker, John Cale, Procol Harum and the great and highly underrated Michael Chapman (who says his songs are more miserable than Leonards!) None of these could be described as particularly cheerful. However, I find sad/melancolic music cathartic and far from depressing. I also like Brian Wilson, whose best songs are where Sun and shadow meet - much of "Pet Sounds", "Surf's Up", "Till I Die" & "Love and Mercy". John E
Exactly. I'll forever remember the times of dancing in circles alone in my home... singing aloud to a high-volumed "Hey, That's No Way to Say Goodbye" and "So Long, Marianne," amongst others. The memories stuck, whilst the bitterness went its way without attaching to me. It's the only thing that seemed to work... so I did it over and over and over, again.. . . cathartic . . .
~ Lizzy
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st theresa
- Posts: 430
- Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2006 7:24 pm
- Location: Edmonton Alberta
His songs keep lifting me they keep on lifting me, lifting me higher and higher.
Finding someone who can put into words, the secret longing of our hearts, is not a sad thing. They tell me over and over, I am not alone--that all minds are joined and that we are ONE/.-- a hopeful joyous expression. I am filled with gratitude for the man and his songs.
Finding someone who can put into words, the secret longing of our hearts, is not a sad thing. They tell me over and over, I am not alone--that all minds are joined and that we are ONE/.-- a hopeful joyous expression. I am filled with gratitude for the man and his songs.
This discussion raises two points for me:
First, I realized only recently when someone lent me CDs by
a number of different Australian singers or singer-songwriters whom I had never heard before that the only songs that made any impact on me at all were the songs with very emotional highs or lows. It just seems that in the case of popular songs, the emotional lows are more common. The type of lyrics that just go something like "Hey, I love ya baby" over and over and over again do not stick with me at all.
Second, I also prefer Leonard singing his own songs to the cover versions. But, here then is the problem. Does that indicate that as a songwriter his songs cannot stand on their own? What if he had only written songs and never performed them. Would we will love the songs as Leonard Cohen as much as we do?
Sherry
First, I realized only recently when someone lent me CDs by
a number of different Australian singers or singer-songwriters whom I had never heard before that the only songs that made any impact on me at all were the songs with very emotional highs or lows. It just seems that in the case of popular songs, the emotional lows are more common. The type of lyrics that just go something like "Hey, I love ya baby" over and over and over again do not stick with me at all.
Second, I also prefer Leonard singing his own songs to the cover versions. But, here then is the problem. Does that indicate that as a songwriter his songs cannot stand on their own? What if he had only written songs and never performed them. Would we will love the songs as Leonard Cohen as much as we do?
Sherry
These are very interesting points, Sherry.
I agree on the emotional highs and lows. The melancholy is a blend of high and low... as it connotes the longing for something high; either never experienced, or experienced and lost.
On the covers vs. Leonard's originals vs. the songs' ability to stand on their own... these are my feelings. We're spoiled. We got all the eggs in one basket, without having to go gathering. The songs do stand on their own, except because of how they came to us [most of us ~ with some, they heard a cover, fell in love with it, and ended up finding us here, by searching out its writer], we cannot help but compare... as Leonard wrote about Annie's eyes.
However, it used to be that there were songwriters and there were singers... and never the twain shall meet. It was around the time of Dylan [and he may be considered the groundbreaker in this], that began to change. The writers began to sing their own material; the singers began to write theirs. Prior to that time, the search was a fastidious one to find the exactly correct singer for the song. Only in the exact match would the song have a chance for becoming a success [a hit]. There were people whose sole jobs may have been centered around this function. I've listened to programs discussing particular singers/songs/writers/producers... where a particular song was sung and it received little airplay, but when the song was finally recorded by so-and-so [the most recent example I've heard about may have been Diana Ross singing something that someone else had recorded first... neither of them having written it] that it skyrocketed to the top of the charts.
Of course, the charts haven't been what Leonard's songs are about or what he's pandering to, so there's always that element to consider. Many will sing his songs as time goes on... there are already some covers that people prefer to his; I don't happen to, so I can't name them for you from my perspective, but I've seen it done here. I know that if I'd never heard Leonard's "Anthem" or "Hallelujah" or "Bird on a Wire;" I'd have still wanted to buy Julie's and Perla's cover of "Anthem," and k.d. lang's or that Norwegian spontanous-quartet's "Hallelujah," and Johnny Cash's "Bird on a Wire"... and Perla's and Jennifer Warnes's and others' covers of "Famous Blue Raincoat;" and the list can be extended for each of these already-mentioned songs and more. NOW ~ JUST Now ~ I've had to return to add in Alistair Griffin's phenomenal cover of "Hallelujah"
!!! There seems to be something about the men's voices that are in the higher ranges that is particularly well-suited to this song in covers... when they don't try to really add to a song that doesn't need adding to or changing, and simply sing it sincerely for themselves... that it remains the heart-wrenching song that Leonard wrote... and as though, in these particular kinds of high-voiced, male covers, it's somehow the angel coming through.
Now, however, because singers simply have the freedom to cover other people's material because they like it, love it, and want to do it, and aren't concerned with whether or not it becomes a "hit," we end up hearing a lot of other singers' covers. They're not concerning themselves with whether or not it becomes a hit, but are paying homage to a singer, songwriter, and song that they love... and are bringing themselves into the mix. Some covers might make you question whether or not the song itself holds up, but my belief is that it's become a matter of singers singing what they love, whether or not they're best suited to it vs. studios deciding what will or won't be recorded and released based on wholly different criteria.
With our own loyalties to our favourite singers, our perceptions of the covers will vary. A die-hard Nick Cave fan may love a Nick cover more than a die-hard fan of someone else will love it [say, for example, me
... I happen to prefer the originals, with Leonard's voice, tones, cadence, expression, et al... for me, he expresses in his singing the original intention of his words... ]; yet, it doesn't mean there's not room in my and others' listening hearts for some of the other covers, such as I've mentioned, and there are more... or that these songs, sung by others, don't hold up as great songs. I can listen to a late-great singer, Ray Charles, sing "Suwannee River/Old Folks at Home"... and I can listen to the woman across the street sing it... or to a 'Top 40 singer' sing it. I will love it by Ray Charles and be lukewarm to it by the two others... however, the song itself, [duh ] remains the same, great song [albeit a highly controversial one, with its original lyrics being demeaning to blacks]. I could come up with much better examples to make my point on this, but I haven't even had a cup of coffee, yet.
Thinking of "Suwannee River" reminds me, too, of how common it has been, historically, for one person to write the lyrics, another person to write the tune, another to arrange it, and another to sing it on the recording we hear. With Leonard's own brilliance with his writing, arranging, playing, singing, and recording, we get all three in one. There are many variables that get altered when others choose to cover the songs. Some make the cut and others don't; yet, the songs remain the same great songs .
~ Lizzy
I agree on the emotional highs and lows. The melancholy is a blend of high and low... as it connotes the longing for something high; either never experienced, or experienced and lost.
On the covers vs. Leonard's originals vs. the songs' ability to stand on their own... these are my feelings. We're spoiled. We got all the eggs in one basket, without having to go gathering. The songs do stand on their own, except because of how they came to us [most of us ~ with some, they heard a cover, fell in love with it, and ended up finding us here, by searching out its writer], we cannot help but compare... as Leonard wrote about Annie's eyes.
However, it used to be that there were songwriters and there were singers... and never the twain shall meet. It was around the time of Dylan [and he may be considered the groundbreaker in this], that began to change. The writers began to sing their own material; the singers began to write theirs. Prior to that time, the search was a fastidious one to find the exactly correct singer for the song. Only in the exact match would the song have a chance for becoming a success [a hit]. There were people whose sole jobs may have been centered around this function. I've listened to programs discussing particular singers/songs/writers/producers... where a particular song was sung and it received little airplay, but when the song was finally recorded by so-and-so [the most recent example I've heard about may have been Diana Ross singing something that someone else had recorded first... neither of them having written it] that it skyrocketed to the top of the charts.
Of course, the charts haven't been what Leonard's songs are about or what he's pandering to, so there's always that element to consider. Many will sing his songs as time goes on... there are already some covers that people prefer to his; I don't happen to, so I can't name them for you from my perspective, but I've seen it done here. I know that if I'd never heard Leonard's "Anthem" or "Hallelujah" or "Bird on a Wire;" I'd have still wanted to buy Julie's and Perla's cover of "Anthem," and k.d. lang's or that Norwegian spontanous-quartet's "Hallelujah," and Johnny Cash's "Bird on a Wire"... and Perla's and Jennifer Warnes's and others' covers of "Famous Blue Raincoat;" and the list can be extended for each of these already-mentioned songs and more. NOW ~ JUST Now ~ I've had to return to add in Alistair Griffin's phenomenal cover of "Hallelujah"
!!! There seems to be something about the men's voices that are in the higher ranges that is particularly well-suited to this song in covers... when they don't try to really add to a song that doesn't need adding to or changing, and simply sing it sincerely for themselves... that it remains the heart-wrenching song that Leonard wrote... and as though, in these particular kinds of high-voiced, male covers, it's somehow the angel coming through. Now, however, because singers simply have the freedom to cover other people's material because they like it, love it, and want to do it, and aren't concerned with whether or not it becomes a "hit," we end up hearing a lot of other singers' covers. They're not concerning themselves with whether or not it becomes a hit, but are paying homage to a singer, songwriter, and song that they love... and are bringing themselves into the mix. Some covers might make you question whether or not the song itself holds up, but my belief is that it's become a matter of singers singing what they love, whether or not they're best suited to it vs. studios deciding what will or won't be recorded and released based on wholly different criteria.
With our own loyalties to our favourite singers, our perceptions of the covers will vary. A die-hard Nick Cave fan may love a Nick cover more than a die-hard fan of someone else will love it [say, for example, me
... I happen to prefer the originals, with Leonard's voice, tones, cadence, expression, et al... for me, he expresses in his singing the original intention of his words... ]; yet, it doesn't mean there's not room in my and others' listening hearts for some of the other covers, such as I've mentioned, and there are more... or that these songs, sung by others, don't hold up as great songs. I can listen to a late-great singer, Ray Charles, sing "Suwannee River/Old Folks at Home"... and I can listen to the woman across the street sing it... or to a 'Top 40 singer' sing it. I will love it by Ray Charles and be lukewarm to it by the two others... however, the song itself, [duh ] remains the same, great song [albeit a highly controversial one, with its original lyrics being demeaning to blacks]. I could come up with much better examples to make my point on this, but I haven't even had a cup of coffee, yet. Thinking of "Suwannee River" reminds me, too, of how common it has been, historically, for one person to write the lyrics, another person to write the tune, another to arrange it, and another to sing it on the recording we hear. With Leonard's own brilliance with his writing, arranging, playing, singing, and recording, we get all three in one. There are many variables that get altered when others choose to cover the songs. Some make the cut and others don't; yet, the songs remain the same great songs
.~ Lizzy