College Student looking for information....

lightning · Post by **lightning** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:30 am

Linmag could you be thinking of "there's a special providence in the fall of a sparrow," Hamlet tells Laertes, Hamlet 5:2:157. Bob Dylan recalls this image in "Every grain of Sand" where he sings "I can hear the Master's plan... like every sparrow fallen, like every grain of sand" blending allusions to Blake and Shakespeare . (How could you go wrong?) Still we think of a fallen sparrow or fallen robin as a very trivial "thing" it takes a mystic to see signifcance in, the rest of the human world ignores the passing of small birds, even eats them in many places. To compare the great songstress Janis Joplin "a symphony of violence, the great southwest unbound" (Farina-Jans) to a robin is a mistake and an insult.

linmag · Post by **linmag** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:55 am

If that was what I was thinking of, Lightning, I had remembered it completely wrongly, and my interpretation would have to be turned on its head. Not that that would be a first. You could well be right, but I'm not wholly convinced, or, at least, I still hope for someone to come up with something more in line with what I thought I remembered. Thanks for taking the time to respond, especially as I get the distinct impression you don't care too much for this song.

Mr. Ed · Post by **Mr. Ed** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 2:30 am

From Jesus' discourse to the twelve disciples (right before he sends them out to preach in the villages and towns of Israel) as recorded by St. Matthew.

"Do not sparrows sell for a cent apiece? And yet not one of them can fall to the ground without your Father's notice.
Even the very hairs on your head have all been counted by God.
So stop being afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."

Matthew 10:29-31

Mr. Ed

linmag · Post by **linmag** » Wed Apr 23, 2003 3:18 am

Very close, Mr Ed, but not quite touching. I think it must have been a paraphrase of this that I was thinking of. You are one remarkably erudite equine.

Schmink · Post by **Schmink** » Tue May 27, 2003 6:32 pm

Dubbsy, why in hell'd you bother coming back just to diss everyone? I'm sure you can find far weirder forums to cast social comment on. The people on this forum from what I see have tried to help you and you just acted like an eight-year-old, kicking back at what you don't understand. I take it you do understand the concept of the internet, the idea that it connects folk who otherwise would not come into contact? Go with me on this one. Now, how are they to connect and such if not with some common interest? I'm no computer boffin but even I can relate to this simple idea. Perhaps you'd like to consider that when you posted your bitchy little message you were going to the same effort as anyone here does to maintain a rapport. We're not putting in that much effort, sweetie, we're just peopke who like LC. I think you feel embarrassed that you couldn't get your head around him. I'm of student age (nearly twenty) and if I were asked to write on LC I'd have been over the moon. Be thankful that you were given an exciting, modern artist to write your paper on and that the people teaching you are trying to expand your mind. You quite sure you're at college? For the record I love Leonard Cohen and have done since i was fourteen, and any fan knows it's not always easy to be open about it because as lizzy says he is so often misrepresented (Overlord of Gloom etc). So, after putting up with closedmindedness from other folk that we have to see in the flesh, I don't think your catty little strike out will bother anybody here one little bit. He's worth the flak. Come back when you've changed the face of modern literature.

tom.d.stiller · Post by **tom.d.stiller** » Tue May 27, 2003 6:57 pm

Schmink, welcome to the forum. May you feel more at home than dubbsy did, and may you stay with us for longer.

dubbsy had come in to ask for help with a paper. The original first post is unfortunately not visible anymore. Instead of it we read now that dubbsy wrote:

So what can I say...paper is done and handed in and I haven't been back in many moons.

Honestly, the atmosphere here scares me. The amount (can't find the word) time/life/etc you're all putting towards this man is, dare I say, overboard in my eyes.

bored and figured I'd come visit....
_________________
i came, I saw, and I'm running for the hills

I think nobody can be forced to feel at home with a bunch of people who sometimes call themselves "Beautiful Losers".

If you've been scared, dubbsy, to stay with people who set their mind to study the work of one of the most prolific poets/songwriters of the present - this is your decision. If you just came in because you had been confronted by your teachers with a task that was beyond your capacity - I hope we could help you, though you were "bored".

I cannot speak for others, but I wish you all the best in "the hills". Maybe some day, when you look back down on us, you'll discover that there is a way to overcome boredom: it's called "commitment". Without some kind of commitment you will always be disgusted by your own boredom. But maybe you are afraid of any commitment or engagement.

The only thing I'd wish is that you hadn't lied about your true motives. You'd have found the help you needed by treating all the good people who tried to help you with the honesty they truly deserve.

Have a good life.

Tom

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue May 27, 2003 7:14 pm

I couldn't figure out what you two meant by coming back just to diss everyone, and that his first post was no longer visible, so I backtracked to the first one, and saw where he edited it from asking for help to dissing.

The most I can manage at this point is ~

whatever

.

Schmink · Post by **Schmink** » Tue May 27, 2003 8:20 pm

Fair play to you, Tom, and to Lizzytysh.

Raspberries to Dubbsy, doubt he'll be back tho, probably in the hills listening to Christina Aguilera or something. At least we're all having a good time and letting Leonard's lovely tunage help us understand the world and ourselves a little better. I got the 'Ladies and Gentlemen...' video the other day and it meant a lot to me to see him at the same age and kind of stage in life as I am (ok, minus the fame, noteriety and 1960's Montreal bars), at the start of a life of writing, singing and general creativity in so many different arenas. I hope! Big love to everyone.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Tue May 27, 2003 8:41 pm

Hey, Schmink ~ Did I ever tell you I like your Profile? I think I did. Three out of six ain't bad....and Big love to you, too, Schmink! Yeah, go figger on Dubbsy....unlike tomato, he [truthfully] seemed to want us to do it for him, rather than get help.....and had no clue, and it would appear very little desire, about Leonard to begin with. Unfortunately, he appears to have willfully missed out on a great opportunity. Oh well. Not the first. Won't be the last. What seems different is that he came on his own "volition" [of sorts].....as in "pick a number" and follow up on it.

Schmink · Post by **Schmink** » Tue May 27, 2003 9:37 pm

Cheers Lizzy

I sure as hell wish I get to write essays on LC one day. It's really nice to just read all the stuff everyone's writing on here and know that his work means so many different things to all these Beautiful Losers. We are not alone! It's a shame you never hear any robins any more tho, we've got a lot of 'em in Warwickshire it seems. They remind me of going to school. May there be birdsong at all your windows

Schmink · Post by **Schmink** » Tue May 27, 2003 9:39 pm

Also if all LC was to Dubbsy as I fear a chance to look 'intellectual' or whatever then he has squarely failed in his task.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed May 28, 2003 12:48 am

Now there's an understatement.

And what a lovely wish to give someone....."May there be birdsong at your window." Yes, writing on Leonard would be such a pleasure....daunting as it may be. After so many years of feeling you were alone, it really is amazing to come to a site like this and see how many others there really are....and how he brings such similar and different things to all of us.

margaret · Post by **margaret** » Wed May 28, 2003 12:48 am

hello and welcome Schmink,

I remember buying the Ladies and gentleman video and thinking how young and confident L C appeared then, before he began a singing career. But he was actually turned 30 when that film was made and had become well known in literary circles in Canada for nearly 10 years. He'd done a lot of living and writing already by that time. I've just recently managed to get Ira B Nadel's biography "Various Positions" which is well worth reading. It's filled in a lot of gaps in my knowledge and gives a better understanding of his work knowing the influences and what was happening in his life as he was writing. I am told it's out of print and I had no luck trying to buy the book, but, as a last resort went to the local library, who searched their storeroom/archives and I now have it on loan. Try to read it if you can.

Margaret

Schmink · Post by **Schmink** » Wed May 28, 2003 1:09 am

My mistake

I can never find anything like that in Leamington. After you're done with Various Positions they can ship it down to me....when I pay my library fine that is

You're right though, if I'd done the maths I'd have figured that out I suppose. Sigh. I know they tried to give him awards and such in 1968 that he didn't want. The Favourite Game is more when he was my age. Set, that is. I concede to you Margaret, a truly clued-up lady.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed May 28, 2003 1:55 am

Just a suggestion [hmm...."questionable" as it may be]. If having the material in your hand for future re-reading and study might be an issue, a xerox machine could assist you in that

.