Here is an article from CNN. Not a right-wing news organization. I wonder. Do those who have said the Iraqi's should not be liberated have any comments to make? I know everyone has said that they do not like Saddam, that he is evil. Here is certainly proof of that. But you have also said that he should not be removed by military force of the United States and Great Britain. Well, Thank God, these two nations have removed him. How else would you get rid of this monster?Iraqis tour half-demolished jail 'of evil'
Secret police reported to have used jail for torture
Wednesday, April 9, 2003 Posted: 2:55 AM EDT (0655 GMT)
Correspondent Bill Neely was given a tour of a building British troops say was used by the Iraqi Regime to torture prisoners (April 9)
BASRA, Iraq (AP) -- Iraqis showed journalists a white stone jail where they claim Saddam Hussein's secret police for decades tortured inmates with beatings, mutilations, electric shocks and chemical baths.
The jail, known as the "White Lion," was charred and half-demolished Tuesday after two days of bombing by British forces fighting for control of Basra, Iraq's second-largest city.
People taken behind the jail's sandstone facade usually did not come out, residents said.
Hundreds of Iraqis came to see the now-empty jail, according to British press reports. Relatives of missing inmates checked fingerprinted files and lists of names found amid the fallen bricks.
"It was a place of evil," resident Hamed Fattil said.
Hamed told British reporters that Iraqi police locked him and his two brothers in a jail dungeon in 1991, and that he was freed after eight months but his brothers were still missing.
"They used to strap a leather cord around our head, hands and shoulders and hoist us two feet off the ground. Then they would beat us as we hung there," Hamed said.
"They did unthinkable things -- electrocution, immersion in a bath of chemicals and ripping off people's finger and toenails."
The jail basement was a warren of cells, chambers and cages where the ground was strewn with an insect-eaten gas mask and bottles, according to Associated Press Television News footage.
Hundreds of Iraqis came to see the charred building that locals say Saddam Hussein's secret police used as a jail.
For the cameras, two men re-enacted how jailers allegedly tortured prisoners.
One man, hands tied behind his back with a rope attached to a hook on the ceiling, bent over while another man pantomimed hitting him on the back and the face with his hands and a long, white rod.
One man shuddered while the other gave him a pretend electric shock.
Outside the jail, a man showed APTN his mangled ears.
Hamed took British reporters into a yard behind the jail into a set of white boxy cells, surrounded by red wire mesh with a low, wire roof.
He said some of the cells, which had red doors with large bolts, were used to hold women and children. He also said hundreds of men were kept in a single cell about the size of a living room, which had one rusted grate window.
Between the men's and women's cells was a long mesh cage. Hamed said here, jailers pressed prisoners against the mesh and squeezed hot irons against their backs or threw scalding water on them in front of other inmates.
hell bent on war
Do you know what is pissing me off most about this thread it is the wads and wads of cut and paste articles.
I don't read it does anyone else? It just clutters up the thread and I object to being told "you should read this".
If you don't have an opinion of your own please don't foist somebody else views on me. The media as we all know is not foolproof.
I can read and I read newspapers and I watch TV. I have no wish to be told what to read!!!!!!!
I don't read it does anyone else? It just clutters up the thread and I object to being told "you should read this".
If you don't have an opinion of your own please don't foist somebody else views on me. The media as we all know is not foolproof.
I can read and I read newspapers and I watch TV. I have no wish to be told what to read!!!!!!!
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Byron
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Paula ! ---- ditto------ Let's keep the media 'copy' out of the thread. I have copied and printed Lizzy's long report as she suggested we all do. As to the constant references to what we can see for ourselves on our own TV screens, let's leave them in the TV, and newspapers kept on the kitchen table.
I don't know about some others, but I get really p....d off when some bright young thing in a CNN studio takes 2 minutes to introduce someone who is already talking to camera, to the extent that we don't get to hear what the on-the-spot reporter is saying. It's the same as Paula's point. We have eyes and ears and don't need a teacher with a pointer showing us what to look at!! and what the other person is saying, but being drowned out.
"Now then viewers here is Mr Blair, who is the President, oops, I mean the Prime Minister of England, oops, I mean the United Kingdom, and he is talking about something which is very, very important right now, and we are going to go over to him and listen to what he has to say to us, so let's go over to the press conference right away......Oh dear, he seems to have finished!!"
I think you know what I mean? It's Paula's point exactly.
I don't know about some others, but I get really p....d off when some bright young thing in a CNN studio takes 2 minutes to introduce someone who is already talking to camera, to the extent that we don't get to hear what the on-the-spot reporter is saying. It's the same as Paula's point. We have eyes and ears and don't need a teacher with a pointer showing us what to look at!! and what the other person is saying, but being drowned out.
"Now then viewers here is Mr Blair, who is the President, oops, I mean the Prime Minister of England, oops, I mean the United Kingdom, and he is talking about something which is very, very important right now, and we are going to go over to him and listen to what he has to say to us, so let's go over to the press conference right away......Oh dear, he seems to have finished!!"
I think you know what I mean? It's Paula's point exactly.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
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Sore Loser
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Huzzah! The Clique strikes again!
Face it Candace, you and your views expressed in your cut and pastes are not welcome here. Don't you get it. If you are of the right political persuasion you may cut and paste with impunity. (In fact we are instructed to print out Liz's offerings for future reference and at least one forum member actually did so
). So, always follow the party line here and you will get along fine.
Sl
Face it Candace, you and your views expressed in your cut and pastes are not welcome here. Don't you get it. If you are of the right political persuasion you may cut and paste with impunity. (In fact we are instructed to print out Liz's offerings for future reference and at least one forum member actually did so
). So, always follow the party line here and you will get along fine. Sl
Good gosh! In the first place, I am either just as guility ~ or very close ~ of cutting and pasting here, as anyone else. In the second place, if Paula were going to be placed in a "party line," it would be on the "war" vs. "peace" one [general categories only, absent all the distinctions as to what each of those means]. In the third place, I feel the same aggravation as Paula/Byron, and entered my cuts and pastes with a certain trepidation, for that reason, "rationalizing" that at least I try to put some of my own words along with it and how I feel it applies, and have certainly done many a post without any cuts-and-pastes, or any thoughts of them. It is nice to hear from a person what their own views are, regardless. Would you argue that, SL?
Of course, at the same time that I was about to ask Candace, "So, what do you think?," two things almost concurrently occurred ~ I felt compelled to do a cut-and-paste myself; and she prefaced her cut-and-paste with a paragraph. Hence, no such question was asked of her. However, if blame is to be placed on this, I have to stand on the firing line amongst the rest. I know very well what Paula and Byron are saying....and agree.
This has absolutely nothing to do with any imaginary, arbitrary party line [or any "real" one, either ~ in case you're tempted to respond with that], SL, as much as you would like it to be so.
I am still very serious regarding the hope I expressed that others copy it as well, and my thanks for possibly listening....as this can only be realistically and fairly viewed by following future events. There wasn't an instruction[al dictate] within 1,000 miles, SL. In fact, Iraq is closer than anything of that nature.
Of course, at the same time that I was about to ask Candace, "So, what do you think?," two things almost concurrently occurred ~ I felt compelled to do a cut-and-paste myself; and she prefaced her cut-and-paste with a paragraph. Hence, no such question was asked of her. However, if blame is to be placed on this, I have to stand on the firing line amongst the rest. I know very well what Paula and Byron are saying....and agree.
This has absolutely nothing to do with any imaginary, arbitrary party line [or any "real" one, either ~ in case you're tempted to respond with that], SL, as much as you would like it to be so.
I am still very serious regarding the hope I expressed that others copy it as well, and my thanks for possibly listening....as this can only be realistically and fairly viewed by following future events. There wasn't an instruction[al dictate] within 1,000 miles, SL. In fact, Iraq is closer than anything of that nature.
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Byron
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Dear Sore Loser, I think that if you had a brain you'd be dangerous. It is as clear as day to everyone who follows this forum that you are begining to struggle. I have many private messages (some from prominent world leaders who I am sworn to secrecy to keep from revealing) expressing similar views and have decided not to cut and paste them into this thread for reasons of common decency to yourself. Should you wish to indulge in infantile mud chucking, may I suggest that you ensure that you are standing on firmer ground than the slimy stuff you tend to throw about.
I am not crazy and I do not belong to a clique. If you had the decency to inwardly digest all of my previous pieces you would see that these two childishly expressed observations by you are complete and utter twaddle.
I remain, your sincerely, 'Angry' of Essex.
I am not crazy and I do not belong to a clique. If you had the decency to inwardly digest all of my previous pieces you would see that these two childishly expressed observations by you are complete and utter twaddle.
I remain, your sincerely, 'Angry' of Essex.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
Dear Sore Loser - it was your posting about the shredding machine that really hit home to me about the situation in Iraq. I am sure you read it somewhere but you took that kernel from the article and posted that. You didn't post the whole of the article.
Trying to wade thru mountains of information to get to the core is bloody annoying. Especially if whoever posted it doesn't bother to put their own perspective on it.
Trying to wade thru mountains of information to get to the core is bloody annoying. Especially if whoever posted it doesn't bother to put their own perspective on it.
Dear Byron and Paula,
I am so sorry to have offended you with my cut and paste. No one has complained about others doing the same thing. I took a look back and many have done the same thing (with very little comment of their own included). I look at my member profile and I have posted very few cut and paste compared to other members. I have not been negative to any one on the Forum in my posts.
I will name those who have cut and paste in this thread:
Lizzytysh, Andrew McGeever, Kush, Linda, Sore Loser, and Vern Silver.
Lizzytysh has extreemly long cut and pastes. And Vern Silver has almost as many cut and pastes as Lizzytsh. Vern Silver not only cuts and pastes but in addition provides countless links to CBC.
In my last cut and paste. I did give opinions of my own. And asked questions as well. But no one answered. Which is fine. No one has to answer my last post. But should I be accused of not posting an opinion when I did do so.
Also when I looked back to see if I somehow was confused over the right to post articles I noticed that when Linda complained about the cut and pasteing by Lizzytysh to support the anti-war arguments and that she (Linda) didn't have time to spend going all over the internet to find articles supporting the pro-war side, Linda was laughed at. And her one cut and paste from her local paper was also laughed at. Because it was from her LOCAL paper.
I have posted from the Guardian, CNN, Daily Mail, etc. Varied sites
One of my posts was long, but the others are short articles. THey were not mountionous. Lizzytysh and Vern SIlver have both posted longer articles than mine. ANd I think they should post whatever they would like. And I think I should post what I would like to post. Please scroll on by my post when you see my name if you don't want to read it.
I still think that my post about torture jails in Iraq is not too long and should not be bloody annoying to anyone.
I am so sorry to have offended you with my cut and paste. No one has complained about others doing the same thing. I took a look back and many have done the same thing (with very little comment of their own included). I look at my member profile and I have posted very few cut and paste compared to other members. I have not been negative to any one on the Forum in my posts.
I will name those who have cut and paste in this thread:
Lizzytysh, Andrew McGeever, Kush, Linda, Sore Loser, and Vern Silver.
Lizzytysh has extreemly long cut and pastes. And Vern Silver has almost as many cut and pastes as Lizzytsh. Vern Silver not only cuts and pastes but in addition provides countless links to CBC.
In my last cut and paste. I did give opinions of my own. And asked questions as well. But no one answered. Which is fine. No one has to answer my last post. But should I be accused of not posting an opinion when I did do so.
Also when I looked back to see if I somehow was confused over the right to post articles I noticed that when Linda complained about the cut and pasteing by Lizzytysh to support the anti-war arguments and that she (Linda) didn't have time to spend going all over the internet to find articles supporting the pro-war side, Linda was laughed at. And her one cut and paste from her local paper was also laughed at. Because it was from her LOCAL paper.
I have posted from the Guardian, CNN, Daily Mail, etc. Varied sites
One of my posts was long, but the others are short articles. THey were not mountionous. Lizzytysh and Vern SIlver have both posted longer articles than mine. ANd I think they should post whatever they would like. And I think I should post what I would like to post. Please scroll on by my post when you see my name if you don't want to read it.
I still think that my post about torture jails in Iraq is not too long and should not be bloody annoying to anyone.
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George.Wright
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George.Wright
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vern.silver
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Sore Loser
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Dear vern,
Believe it or not I've read all of your "cut and paste" articles. I was annoyed to no end by the political views expressed in them. I even went to the CBC links and the opinions there drove me up a wall. But who cares? At least you got one pro-war person to read them. The cut and paste is another way to buttress one's argument. Keep the scissors and the glue.
SL
Believe it or not I've read all of your "cut and paste" articles. I was annoyed to no end by the political views expressed in them. I even went to the CBC links and the opinions there drove me up a wall. But who cares? At least you got one pro-war person to read them. The cut and paste is another way to buttress one's argument. Keep the scissors and the glue.
SL
Lizzytysh, who started cutting and pasting in the first place? And who started this Bush bashing under the disguise of discussing the war and being pro peace? Posting articles that were not even accurate.
l feel very strongly that this was not the place for what you have been doing Lizzytysh, I regret ever responding to you in the first place on this issue and should have let it go, but I couldn't disagree with you more, and this is a democracy.
l feel very strongly that this was not the place for what you have been doing Lizzytysh, I regret ever responding to you in the first place on this issue and should have let it go, but I couldn't disagree with you more, and this is a democracy.
Linda
Linda ~
Ambivalence. That's the word that applies when you do something about which you have mixed feelings. It's a fairly common phenomena. That's how. Your invectives take all forms, don't they?
Let me see, it must be that I started this Bush bashing?....However, it's been going on for a long time, many other places [and still is], if it was. Maybe I felt at greater liberty, with it being my country. Perhaps you wouldn't feel this way had I come on this thread saying I felt Bush was the greatest president of the greatest country in the world. However, I don't happen to feel that, and I have no intention of saying it.
Under the "disguise" of discussing the war and being pro-peace? WoW, Linda. You're beginning to drool your venom. You accuse me of being disingenuous with my stance and my purpose? You somehow think that my opinion of Bush is mutually-exclusive with the topic of this war and being pro-peace?
Posting articles that were not even accurate? Whereby did you determine what articles to not be so?
Did I say or suggest that you couldn't disagree with me? Did I suggest that this is not a democracy? As I recall, I'm quite aware that it is and feel that expression of being pro-peace is a dynamic manifestation of that fact in the face of war.
Ambivalence. That's the word that applies when you do something about which you have mixed feelings. It's a fairly common phenomena. That's how. Your invectives take all forms, don't they?
Let me see, it must be that I started this Bush bashing?....However, it's been going on for a long time, many other places [and still is], if it was. Maybe I felt at greater liberty, with it being my country. Perhaps you wouldn't feel this way had I come on this thread saying I felt Bush was the greatest president of the greatest country in the world. However, I don't happen to feel that, and I have no intention of saying it.
Under the "disguise" of discussing the war and being pro-peace? WoW, Linda. You're beginning to drool your venom. You accuse me of being disingenuous with my stance and my purpose? You somehow think that my opinion of Bush is mutually-exclusive with the topic of this war and being pro-peace?
Posting articles that were not even accurate? Whereby did you determine what articles to not be so?
Did I say or suggest that you couldn't disagree with me? Did I suggest that this is not a democracy? As I recall, I'm quite aware that it is and feel that expression of being pro-peace is a dynamic manifestation of that fact in the face of war.