rusty old and beautiful

This is for your own works!!!
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

You're right that he was a very special man, Adam. As I read it, I kept having to remind myself that you are not the one who wrote it. It's enchanting and I love the way he brought these lines together to express this:
There is a moonlight
that passes through each of us,
you can't look it up
in the Shorter Oxford.
I also liked the way he expressed this:
Today I met a taxi-driver
who used to workshop the disabled
in art and craft.
It took a little to keep the layers of people straight, with who knew and was talking about whom, but it was worth it. Thanks for sharing this, Adam.


~ Lizzy
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mat james
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Location: Australia

Post by mat james »

"There is a moonlight
that passes through each of us, "

Great line. (who-ever?)

Maybe you didn't write it but you are in this poem somewhere Adam.

Of course, the Moon does not of itself glow. It reflects light from a source.
The Moon is a Poet and Moonlight is Art/Poetry/Music...reflections of creation.
And this does pass through each of us
And some reflect it.
I suppose a sonata could be said to be the voice of creation. The music and the Word.
Song.....

That's where I go from this insightful poem you posted Boss.
I get the feeling you want to say more about the origins of this work?

I'll get the beer first !!!
And you "compose yourself", so to speak.

Diane: " oops, oops 2" etc is a great poem. Ha! Ha! I wish I had meant it that way.

I think Katrin can no longer hold her beer. She seems to have curled up under a table somewhere.

What about another desert poem? Here goes.



The chair


I'm going to place a board
across the arm-rests
of my chair
on the red sand
by the fire
and I'll write by moonlight
by fire-light
and the full light of day
I'll sit and write
where your naked thighs
could not squeeze

where you straddled me there
on the chair.
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

A hot poem driven by the fire, Mat :D .


~ Lizzy
katrin
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Post by katrin »

I think the beer or certainly the schnapps gets to me. :?

Adam, I am moved by your poem about your brother. There are no words I can say to alleviat the pain one feels when loosing someone dear to you. I can only say that I know that pain, that missing, that longing, and not to want to accept it. The beautiful thing is, that the energy remains. I can only be there, to hold that space, and to send you loving thoughts. I am glad you are back and thanks for your poems, your sharing.

Mat, I don't get the oopps poetry!:? I agree with you Lizzy on the red sand, desert, fire poem: it's hot! 8)

Mat, you lover of mystery, lover of beauty, lover of poetry, why mystery, why not just being open, direct and without secrets/ mystery? It is not that I don't like the mystery, no I like it waayyy too much, too, but are there really any mysteries anyway?

Since the beer is getting to me and I am a lover of solitude and melancholy, and I am a slow traveller, I may get out of the ute for a while. I'll walk a couple of miles and maybe the same rosty, old ute is going to pick me up sometimes, somewhere again.

I'll see you later

(since I know this forum I start to understand teens, who sit in front of the computer all the time.) :D

Katrin
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

I just hope you won't be gone too long, Katrin :) . Enjoy your melancholy and solitude. The door to the old ute will remain perpetually open for you.

Yes ~ It does lend a different perspective to that teenager's back with the reflection on his face, doesn't it :wink: ?

Looking forward to you, again 8) . Try not to be too long :) . I'm a very-little drinker, too :wink: .


~ Lizzy :D
katrin
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Post by katrin »

Lizzy, THANK YOU! :) and hug

As I walk I hum :"I loved you in the morning,...your eyes are soft with sorrow,Hey, that's no way to say goodbye." ?
Before I understood any of LC's or other English lyrics, I listend to it, with just feeling it out of my stomach, heart. I love LC not only for his voice :lol: , no but for its rhythme, which flows right into my veins, the life in it, and also for its melancholy.

Hey English speakers, listen more often to music you do not understand the lyrics!

See you guys.

Katrin
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Go safely and well, Katrin... happy wanderings 8) .

You're right... and Leonard's songs sung in other languages sound sublime 8) . So long...


Love and hugs,
Lizzy :D
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mat james
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Post by mat james »

On my unbroken little legs (Part 1)

I was 5
and she was the lovely caring nun
talking of love
making my little heart smile.

We left the classroom
for assembly
and they talked and talked
and Patrick and I whispered.

She escorted me
alone
back to our room.
Dark and stark
she loomed above me

I looked up bewildered
as she beat the back of my legs
with the cane handle
of her feather duster

"never talk at assembly!"
she spat down at me.

This is not Love
you silly woman
I thought
As I hobbled to the sunshine
and my friends
on my bruised but unbroken legs.



On my unbroken little legs (part 2 )

Mum left when I was four
returned when I was five
reluctantly
and for us kids it was never
again
a happy home.

At her parents place
that lovely weak man
that selfish old woman
that disenchanting world
full of hostilities
for little boys
...dad dragged me out
down the gravelled path
to the back of the green galvo shed
where he beat my little legs
till they bled.

One leg was grandma
the other was mum

I saw that stick
a knotted and rough
fruit tree pruning
broken and torn at his feet
...next to his heart...

my crown of thorns.

I hobbled back
along that Gethsemane way
sobbing
Dad sobbed behind the shed
we were both bruised and bleeding
and walking that gravelled path
there; among the crunching;
somehow I understood

I knew again;
adults are not wise...
...and my unbroken legs
would take me to sunshine.
Last edited by mat james on Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:45 pm, edited 5 times in total.
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Dear Mat ~

This is the second, recent time that you've provided your own examples, with your own words, the answer to Katrin's question, as well as to Vilmos's question in another section and thread, of 'how can one write with symbolism, et al, to be effective?' Katrin's question:
why mystery, why not just being open, direct and without secrets/ mystery?


Here, again, you have allowed the details to tell the story and deliver the message, with just a few, simple, more symbolic comments. It reminds me of "Diamond" and "The Chair." Sometimes, the scenarios are so graphic and moving, touching, or impacting in other ways that the message comes through from the depths, absent mystery and symbolism. That is how this one works, as well.

"On my unbroken little legs (Part 1, Part 2)" shows the clarity of a child's perspective that adults seem to 'outgrow,' at the same time that it shows the inherent hope and resilience in children. This is really beautifully constructed, Mat.

At once, you describe the man as well as his weapon in this verse:
I saw that stick
a knotted and rough
fruit tree pruning
broken and torn at his feet
next to his heart
Phenomenal closure:
I knew again that
adults are not wise...
...and my unbroken legs
would take me to sunshine.
Thank you so, so much, Mat, for sharing this incredible poem.


~ Lizzy
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Boss
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Post by Boss »

Lizzy is right Mat, it is "incredible". And so sad. You have guts to put stuff like that in the public arena. Concretizing the pain so many, many people know. For truth of this nature to be released in a coherent manner, with such flow and intensity, is so valuable to you the writer, and to your readers.

You're a master, mate.
Take care,
Boss
'In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me there lay an invincible summer' - Albert Camus
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh »

Yes... and it is sad... and evidence of how we humans have so much power to destroy each other.
For truth of this nature to be released in a coherent [and concrete] manner, with such flow and intensity, is so valuable to you the writer, and to your readers.
... and so true. I agree with all that Adam said to you, Mat.


Love,
Lizzy
Diane

Post by Diane »

You are right Diane, they have accepted it. BTW, I'm glad you had a good time in Ireland.

Thanks for those thoughts, Boss. You are a good man. Looks like your brother was indeed like you. The moonlight sonata, played well, is one of those simple and sublime pieces of art that does pass through you...

Katrin said:
I love LC not only for his voice , no but for its rhythme, which flows right into my veins, the life in it, and also for its melancholy.

Hey English speakers, listen more often to music you do not understand the lyrics!

Hi Katrin. Yes, and, on a related note; it is highly erotic to have a lover who does not speak your language, nor you theirs. Because then you have to really watch and listen to each other...
On my unbroken little legs (Part 1)

I was 5
and she was the lovely caring nun
talking of love
making my little heart smile.

We left the classroom
for assembly
and they talked and talked
and Patrick and I whispered.

She escorted me
alone
back to our room.
Dark and stark
she loomed above me

I looked up bewildered
as she beat the back of my legs
with the cane handle
of her feather duster

"never talk at assembly!"
she spat down at me.

This is not Love
you silly woman
I thought
As I hobbled to the sunshine
and my friends
on my bruised but unbroken legs.



On my unbroken little legs (part 2 )

Mum left when I was four
returned when I was five
reluctantly
and for us kids it was never
again
a happy home.

At her parents place
that lovely weak man
that selfish old woman
that disenchanting world
full of hostilities
for little boys
...dad dragged me out
down the gravelled path
to the back of the green galvo shed
where he beat my little legs
till they bled.

One leg was grandma
the other was mum

I saw that stick
a knotted and rough
fruit tree pruning
broken and torn at his feet
...next to his heart...

my crown of thorns.

I hobbled back
along that Gethsemane way
sobbing
Dad sobbed behind the shed
we were both bruised and bleeding
and walking that graveled path
somehow I understood

I knew again;
adults are not wise...
...and my unbroken legs
would take me to sunshine.

Mat, I agree totally with Boss and Lizzy's comments. The unspoken pain that many children endure is not often the subject of poetry. Thank you.

Diane
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mat james
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Location: Australia

Post by mat james »

Fellow troubadors, thanks for you comments and support.
We all have those moments in our lives that test us a little.
But most of my life is sunshine; I suppose 'cause I keep chasing it.
I'm not brave enough to sit too long in the shadows.


This pub's a bit quiet Diane. Perhaps they are a bit worried about the condition of Lizzy's ute (truck) and the rough look of Adam Ben Boss!?

There are people over in the corner who have been listening and singing along, but they seem a little shy or perhaps dis-interested;
I'm not sure why ?

Do we travel on?
Stay awhile and listen to some local stories
or call it a day?

It's anybody's call...
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
Diane

Post by Diane »

Hi Mat,

If you want to hear a Welsh story, let me read for you the story of the legend of Beddgelert/ Bethgelert. It's not that local, cos we are in the Brecon Beacon mountains in South Wales close to Boss's aunt's house and this is from North Wales. But it is a captivating and very sad story. The first time I heard it it made me cry.

http://www.red-dragon-wales.com/Mythsan ... Gelert.htm

(See link for photos)
The Death of Gelert the Wolfhound

In the Glaslyn Valley high in the mountains of Snowdonia in north Wales is the little picturesque village of Beddgelert, not a hive of industrial activity like Cardiff, Swansea, or any such like place in the south; but a place that is heavily dependent on its tourists. Among its attractions today, on the outskirts of the village, is the grave of possibly this country's most famous dog; Gelert. Thus was how the village begot its name:- Beddgelert - Grave of Gelert

To tell you of Gelert I must take you back to the times of another of my Country's great princes, Llywelyn ap Iorworth or Llywelyn The Great. Llywelyn was a grandson of Owain Gwynedd and grandfather to Llywelyn ap Gruffudd (Llywelyn the Last). He was born in the year 1173 in the beautiful Lledr valley, on the eastern side of Snowdonia. His home of Castell Dolwyddelan stood on a knoll on the southern slopes of Moel Siabod, guarding the way west over Snowdonia from the Conway valley.

Prone to the fortunes of the weather, rising mists and cold bitter winds the castle was an unforgiving place. Care not taken whilst on guard duty atop of the tower during gale force winds, meant sudden death from being blown into the valley below. The castle was also a cold place in the time of snow, but snow was to its advantage for it helped to seal the valley against those that on many an occasion wished they could break the stranglehold of Snowdonia by the Prince of Wales.

Much of Llywelyn's mature life was spent in the Organisation and defence of Wales. On his succession to the throne of Gwynedd he swore in 1201 an allegiance to King John of England and in 1205 he married his illegitimate daughter Joan. However, Llywelyn never intended that himself or Wales should remain subservient to the English throne.


Llywelyn enjoyed hunting, for it not only gave him the thrill of the chase, but provided meat for the table. So whenever he could, he would leave his court of Aberffraw and cross the Mennia Straits and head for the mountains of Snowdonia. Once there and unleashed, the great Irish Wolfhound pack led by their leader Gelert would be heard baying; as they picked up the scent of a stag and began the chase. Many times they would lose one, then pick up another, only to lose that one too. By then Llywelyn would find himself way to the south, indeed there were occasions when he was as far south as Mawddach river causing him to encamp in his newly built castle of Bere in the the Desenni valley, this resulted in him being away from Joan for several weeks at a time.

After Gruffudd his son was born, Joan was having none of this and demanded that he should build hunting lodges so that she could accompany him. So throughout Snowdonia they were built, but it is the one that was built near today's Beddgelert that concern us; for this is where my story of Gelert the Irish Wolfhound comes from.

The great bounding wolfhound was a favourite of all that came across him. He was as gentle as a lamb to all those that showed kindness to his master and his family. Woe betide anyone however, that the dog thought should show more respect. Then he would sit right in front of the visitor, bare his teeth and emit a deep warning growl.

At meal times Gelert would sit at his master's side, the only one of the pack allowed to do so. His head would loll to one side and his tongue would hang out, while one ear would be cocked for the sound of the slightest movement of a tasty tit bit from the table; which he more than often got.

When Gruffudd Llywelyn's oldest son, for there was Dafydd as well, was old enough to crawl the youngster was as rough as he could be with him, in fact many times the great dog could be seen walking around the lodge with young Gruffudd hanging on to his tail. When the time came for the young prince to be put to bed Gelert, as often as not, lay alongside his cot to protect his young charge. Llywelyn desperately wanting his pack leader on a hunt would shout at him and try and cajole him in an attempt to get Gelert to accompany him. Gelert however, would have none of it, then he would bare his teeth and growl at Llywelyn too. Soon the pack had a new leader and the giant hound stayed in the lodge protecting his charge. When Gruffudd got to the toddling stage Gelert and him were inseparable, they would play and roll around together inside and outside the lodge whenever the hunting party met there.

It was such a day late one Autumn when Llywelyn, Joan and the family were at Beddgelert, that the death of the great dog occurred. Young Gruffudd had been put to bed and the family were away up the valley where the hounds had trapped two great stags. On returning to the lodge after the successful hunt Llywelyn eager to see his son burst in through the door, there to met with a devastating sight. The cot was overturned, there was blood everywhere, and worst of all the great wolfhound's jaws where dripping with blood. Thinking that Gelert had turned upon Gruffudd and savaged him to death, Llywelyn withdrew his sword and plunged it into Gelert's side. Ooh the howl of great dog, as it sunk to the the floor in its dying throes, reverberated around the mountains and I am sure that such was the noise that it was heard at Aberffraw as well.

Beside himself with rage Llywelyn almost missed the little snuffling noise which emitted from the corner of the room, when he did so he rushed forward and threw aside the empty cot, below it it still alive was Gruffudd; but more surprising was that below him was the body of the biggest wolf Llywelyn had ever seen. Full of remorse with his child in his arms he rushed back to the great wolfhound's side. Cradling the dog's head in his other arm in an attempt to ease the pain Llywelyn received one last lick from the great dog, as though in forgiveness, before he died.

It seemed that the great wolf, intent on devouring something, had entered the lodge. Gelert suspecting that it would attack his young charge had met it head on in a battle to the death. When Llywelyn returned after the hunt Gelert had met his master with a great sense of achievement and pride, but his reward was to feel the sharp thrust of steel into his side for doing something he could not understand.

Months after the death of the great hound Llywelyn, still beside himself with grief, erected a memorial stone south of the village near the Glaslyn river, where he had laid the great dog to rest. The stone is still there today many hundreds of years later, cared for with love by the residents of Beddgelert


The story is probably adapted from an old old legend. With variations it is found in Sanskrit and in most ancient literatures.

I don't mind what we do next. I am quite busy at the mo, in real life, and only have a chance to pop in here every few days or so, but I love catching up when I do :D .

Cheers,

Diane
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mat james
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wolf-hounds and unconditional love

Post by mat james »

Diane, you speak with a most attractive accent when you are half cut! I enjoyed your tender narration of that tale peppered with universal, mythological undertows.
My mind, being the saunterer that it is, went off on a few tangents, sign-posted below.

This Wolf-hound

this wolf-hound lives
an unconditional love
an unconditional loyalty
an unconditional bravery
an unconditional forgiveness
an unconditional sacrifice.

aren't these the traits of heroes?

is "un-conditional"
J.P.Satre's "pre-reflective cogito"?
and if it is, before re-cognition
before thought;
...where did it come from?
and why do we find these traits so beautiful, so heroic?

Is this intuition? (inner tuition)

If we accept that
qualities can be bred into a dog?
Is it possible
qualities can be bred into a human?

Are some creatures borne to be
beautifully sacrificial?
• Mohammad Ali
• Jesus
• Nelson Mandela
• My Auntie Estelle
• many, many mothers, fathers

love, loyalty, forgiveness
maternal qualities?
The brave warrior; masculine?
and the yin/yang blend of both to
...hero

was the mythological "Fall"
the moment we made our love conditional?

Is conditional love; Law?.........

If hate is the opposite of love, then:
Is unconditional hate; that which we refer to as "evil"?

Is conditional hate; justice?

Wow! Where is that wolf-hound taking me???


and upon eating that fruit
of knowledge of good and evil
and entering Maya, world of the opposites:
Is that when/where we lost those famous
"keys to the kingdom"?

Beautiful Myth Diane!!!: A jug of wine, a loaf of bread, and; thou beside me reciting! (in a pub). This is paradise enow.....(Omar Khayam, sort of.)

Perhaps I should go back to reciting simple poems as my brain is getting scrambled.
Anyway, Diane, thanks for the story....I loved it and where it took me.
Last edited by mat james on Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:56 am, edited 3 times in total.
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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