Dear Nan,
You have made a terrible mistake. Questioning the Peace Party's assertions will make you persona non-grata here. You have unwittingly joined Linda, eeey and me in the Axis of American Evil. Run for your life!
SL
hell bent on war
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Sore Loser
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 4:05 am
My preceding post was # 1225....Merry Christmas, young men and women. May you be home with your families for it. Such an optimistic estimate 
.
Linmag ~ Yes, I know what you mean when you speak of the broadcast you listened to with the child crying. As David said, the horrors are the realities, and the realities are the horrors. I also know that you already know that....it just strikes deeper in some ways.
.Linmag ~ Yes, I know what you mean when you speak of the broadcast you listened to with the child crying. As David said, the horrors are the realities, and the realities are the horrors. I also know that you already know that....it just strikes deeper in some ways.
Interesting theory David. Time will tell won't it. The evil one will ultimately not win in the end.
I have never believed that liberating the Iraqi people was the "sole" objective, but I feel it will be one of the benefits from getting Saddam out of power. Our motive is a selfish one, and that is self defense. That Saddam has not been funding terrorist is too far stretched for me to believe. A man of his nature, that has the hatred he does for the US, with his wealth not funding terrorist groups is too hard to believe. If the US does nothing in the war on terrorism, we will be destroyed, bit by bit. Are the Iraqi people not going to be better off out from under his rule? Mistakes have been made in the past, I am not the one that denys that, whatever the out come on this one, we will be held accountable for sure. It may get interesting. What deals have France and others had with Iraq? Or still have?
I find your final paragraph very disturbing.
The attack on Sept 11 because it was terrorist wasn't an invasion? What kind of precedent does a terrorist attack set? any? Is war worse that terrorism? How do you fight terrorism?
I have never believed that liberating the Iraqi people was the "sole" objective, but I feel it will be one of the benefits from getting Saddam out of power. Our motive is a selfish one, and that is self defense. That Saddam has not been funding terrorist is too far stretched for me to believe. A man of his nature, that has the hatred he does for the US, with his wealth not funding terrorist groups is too hard to believe. If the US does nothing in the war on terrorism, we will be destroyed, bit by bit. Are the Iraqi people not going to be better off out from under his rule? Mistakes have been made in the past, I am not the one that denys that, whatever the out come on this one, we will be held accountable for sure. It may get interesting. What deals have France and others had with Iraq? Or still have?
I find your final paragraph very disturbing.
The attack on Sept 11 because it was terrorist wasn't an invasion? What kind of precedent does a terrorist attack set? any? Is war worse that terrorism? How do you fight terrorism?
Linda
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Sore Loser
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 4:05 am
Dear Lizzytysh,
Just a note to let you in on something. Remember that weepy bit of propaganda you passed on to the forum. "The Wall." It's complete bull shit. It never happened. No conversation in the snow. No Viet Nam Vet shouting out his rage and pain into the uncaring night. The whole thing is totally bogus. Just a set of talking points very badly written. Hack writing at it's finest. If you must give us these bathetic scenarios please give us something that actually occured.
Sincerely,
SL
http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/hambid ... idge1.html
Just a note to let you in on something. Remember that weepy bit of propaganda you passed on to the forum. "The Wall." It's complete bull shit. It never happened. No conversation in the snow. No Viet Nam Vet shouting out his rage and pain into the uncaring night. The whole thing is totally bogus. Just a set of talking points very badly written. Hack writing at it's finest. If you must give us these bathetic scenarios please give us something that actually occured.
Sincerely,
SL
http://www.strike-the-root.com/3/hambid ... idge1.html
My, my....Sore Loser.....how perfectly rabid of you. With such venegeance we attack perhaps a compilation of comments made by various vets; scenarios witnessed by soldiers; enraged hostilities directed toward an administration perpetrating war for greed and expansion. It does nothing to undermine its true validity.
~ Lizzytysh
~ Lizzytysh
Last edited by lizzytysh on Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
Lizzytysh People have been freed by wars, if it were not for war where would we be?
There are horrible people that do horrendous things but that does not mean every soldier in Viet nam did these things I do not believe our government was ordering the torture of inoccent women and children. I don't believe every Iraqi soldier has the heart to do those things either.
Hitler, the Jews Lizzytysh, how horrendous was that? I could join you and start listing.
I do not listen to NPR, but tell me what did they tell you about the horrors of the Twin Towers, those poor people that went down in the field on that plane did the children there scream, The Oklahoma federal building any babies crying there. Did they tell you we had this coming? We deserved it?
I heard mention on the news last night that an investigation should be done as to why there is such a hatred of George Bush and I would like to see that done, because why there is such a venomous hatred of him interests me. It doesn't seem normal. And I do have my opinions as to why but that would be another war here.
There are horrible people that do horrendous things but that does not mean every soldier in Viet nam did these things I do not believe our government was ordering the torture of inoccent women and children. I don't believe every Iraqi soldier has the heart to do those things either.
Hitler, the Jews Lizzytysh, how horrendous was that? I could join you and start listing.
I do not listen to NPR, but tell me what did they tell you about the horrors of the Twin Towers, those poor people that went down in the field on that plane did the children there scream, The Oklahoma federal building any babies crying there. Did they tell you we had this coming? We deserved it?
I heard mention on the news last night that an investigation should be done as to why there is such a hatred of George Bush and I would like to see that done, because why there is such a venomous hatred of him interests me. It doesn't seem normal. And I do have my opinions as to why but that would be another war here.
Linda
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Sore Loser
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Tue Sep 17, 2002 4:05 am
In all depth of sincerity, Linda, I say I wish you would listen to NPR. Not only will you find yourself amazed at the difference between the level and depth of reporting, from a journalistic/media standpoint, but you will find your eyes opening in many new directions, as well....and a new appreciation developing of that fact. Their coverage of the Twin Tower tragedy was in depth, concise, and thought-provoking. No, they did not say those things regarding either of those events. As an aside, you also , would enjoy listening to Prairie Home Companion, if you don't already....being from Minnesota. It comes on here on NPR on both Saturday evening and Sunday afternoon. I listen to it and enjoy it very much.
I didn't say every soldier in Viet Nam, nor am I saying every Iraqi soldier, nor am I saying every American soldier, nor am I saying that any of the respective governments are ordering such atrocities. At a certain point, enlarged versions of fraternity-hazing behaviours, i.e. wild-animal, pack mentality, takes over, along with all the stressors of war; the highly-skilled training imploding upon the soul; pure hatred, generated by the war machine; and who knows what else, Linda, all come together.
The study you are referencing, I would love to see done. I can't recall feeling such depth of loathing, for any person in a position of power in our country. Deep-seated distrust is at the heart of mine.
I didn't say every soldier in Viet Nam, nor am I saying every Iraqi soldier, nor am I saying every American soldier, nor am I saying that any of the respective governments are ordering such atrocities. At a certain point, enlarged versions of fraternity-hazing behaviours, i.e. wild-animal, pack mentality, takes over, along with all the stressors of war; the highly-skilled training imploding upon the soul; pure hatred, generated by the war machine; and who knows what else, Linda, all come together.
The study you are referencing, I would love to see done. I can't recall feeling such depth of loathing, for any person in a position of power in our country. Deep-seated distrust is at the heart of mine.
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Byron
- Posts: 3171
- Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
- Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert
Having had an objective review of all postings in the Forum I have come to the sad conclusion that I would prefer to close down for a while.
The degrees of invective which are paraded across the ether are truly shredding my thoughts.
There are differing views and opinions which have become entrenched in their lifespan on our screens.
People are killing human beings and we all are displaying the sides of our own humanity which highlights just how close we are to the animal kingdom, when we all scratch the surface of our civilised veneer.
I do mean all, myself included.
I do not like what I see in myself and I leave it to you to look to your own perspectives.
Millions are dying in Africa.
Thousands are being killed in The Congo.
I've seen trouble and strife from all over the World in my lifetime, as I viewed all media outlets.
That is apart from the postings in this small corner of the internet.
I'm returning to foolscap/A4/pencil and eraser and hope to find my humanity in this Mad, Mad world.
G-d bless.
Byron 'sends his regards.'
The degrees of invective which are paraded across the ether are truly shredding my thoughts.
There are differing views and opinions which have become entrenched in their lifespan on our screens.
People are killing human beings and we all are displaying the sides of our own humanity which highlights just how close we are to the animal kingdom, when we all scratch the surface of our civilised veneer.
I do mean all, myself included.
I do not like what I see in myself and I leave it to you to look to your own perspectives.
Millions are dying in Africa.
Thousands are being killed in The Congo.
I've seen trouble and strife from all over the World in my lifetime, as I viewed all media outlets.
That is apart from the postings in this small corner of the internet.
I'm returning to foolscap/A4/pencil and eraser and hope to find my humanity in this Mad, Mad world.
G-d bless.
Byron 'sends his regards.'
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tom.d.stiller
- Posts: 1213
- Joined: Fri Mar 07, 2003 8:18 am
- Location: ... between the lines ...
- Contact:
Byron,
I can understand how you watch this thread with growing discontent. Welcome to another reality of war.
Like a poison gas this war invades, pervades, contaminates all our souls and creates invectives, rabidity, deliberate misunderstandings and other verbal weapons of mass destruction.
Oh yes, I wish I could retreat into a quiet little hut on some mountain, some place where there are no news but the sunrise in the morning, where there is only candle light, and maybe distill some truly humane thoughts and feelings and words out of the mess and garbage I carry on my mind now.
But there isn't a hut like that.
So I will keep on, with all my faults and flaws, with all my hopes and desperations, with all my love and all my hate, with all that should be able to raise me, to raise all of us, beyond the level of fighting curs - and obviously isn't.
I paste in another poem, since my own words are too weak, too fragile, too ill chosen to transport what I want to talk about:
Meditatio
by Ezra Pound
When I carefully consider the curious habits of dogs,
I am compelled to conclude
That man is the superior animal.
When I consider the curious habits of man,
I confess, my friend, I am puzzled
Tom "sends friendly regards"
I can understand how you watch this thread with growing discontent. Welcome to another reality of war.
Like a poison gas this war invades, pervades, contaminates all our souls and creates invectives, rabidity, deliberate misunderstandings and other verbal weapons of mass destruction.
Oh yes, I wish I could retreat into a quiet little hut on some mountain, some place where there are no news but the sunrise in the morning, where there is only candle light, and maybe distill some truly humane thoughts and feelings and words out of the mess and garbage I carry on my mind now.
But there isn't a hut like that.
So I will keep on, with all my faults and flaws, with all my hopes and desperations, with all my love and all my hate, with all that should be able to raise me, to raise all of us, beyond the level of fighting curs - and obviously isn't.
I paste in another poem, since my own words are too weak, too fragile, too ill chosen to transport what I want to talk about:
Meditatio
by Ezra Pound
When I carefully consider the curious habits of dogs,
I am compelled to conclude
That man is the superior animal.
When I consider the curious habits of man,
I confess, my friend, I am puzzled
Tom "sends friendly regards"
SL ~
Yes, I do try to be careful in the way I say things. My point with the perhaps wasn't whether or not it actually occurred. I can accept that, that specific conversation didn't occur. My point is that all the things mentioned have been seen, and all the things said have been said. From whence the author gathered the information is irrelevant to the realities of war ~ and its psychological aftermath ~ and the resolve of those who realize the futility and waste of the sacrifices seen, leading to their personal stands against war, still hold true.
My words are not histrionics.
~ Lizzytysh
Yes, I do try to be careful in the way I say things. My point with the perhaps wasn't whether or not it actually occurred. I can accept that, that specific conversation didn't occur. My point is that all the things mentioned have been seen, and all the things said have been said. From whence the author gathered the information is irrelevant to the realities of war ~ and its psychological aftermath ~ and the resolve of those who realize the futility and waste of the sacrifices seen, leading to their personal stands against war, still hold true.
My words are not histrionics.
~ Lizzytysh
Last edited by lizzytysh on Thu Mar 27, 2003 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Dear Byron ~
I hope to see you back here after you have taken a much needed respite. I understand that need. As I've mentioned, I see the disintegration of interactions occurring at work, as well. The effect is insidious and unrelenting. Can you imagine how it must be in the war fields? A comment made this morning on NPR, while talking about the majority being new-to-war soldiers was, "Many are killing a man for the first time." What a descriptive .
I wish you peace and healing while you're gone. What you say about the rest of the world over the years is so true.
Love, Elizabeth
I hope to see you back here after you have taken a much needed respite. I understand that need. As I've mentioned, I see the disintegration of interactions occurring at work, as well. The effect is insidious and unrelenting. Can you imagine how it must be in the war fields? A comment made this morning on NPR, while talking about the majority being new-to-war soldiers was, "Many are killing a man for the first time." What a descriptive
.I wish you peace and healing while you're gone. What you say about the rest of the world over the years is so true.
Love, Elizabeth
Lizzie yes I do believe the fact they are being paraded on TV could be
their salvation eventually. No matter what you think the Iraqis are
well aware of world opinion. At present they have acknowledged the fact
that these POW's exist. They will have to account for them at the end
of the war. The two Desert Rats were not quite as lucky they appear
to have been murdered by a mob.
I don't understand your fanatical tirade against the USA. You are
American and I know you are anti war as are a lot of people, yet you
seem to think the whole of the USA government has a hidden agenda.
I don't know if your opinions are indicative of American people
generally but I wonder if you stood up in, say, a bar and stated your
opinions it could be construed as "batting for the other side". You
might not like the war but I don't think the answer is to denigrate the
people who, whether you like it or not, are fighting for our freedom to
state the opinions we have stated without fear of retribution or death.
You as well as I have been brought up in a country where free speech is
a right and you are using that right liberally as is your want. Is it
fair to deny opposed people that same right.
Lizzie if you were an Iraqi in Iraq would you rather leave things be or die in the attempt for liberation. I would really like to know.
Yes I do think the USA has underlying goals in this war, although I am
naive I am not that naive BUT amongst and amidst this there is a genuine
push for some sort of democracy in this country. War may not be the
ideal solution but peace was never on offer for the people of Iraq under
Saddam's regime.
their salvation eventually. No matter what you think the Iraqis are
well aware of world opinion. At present they have acknowledged the fact
that these POW's exist. They will have to account for them at the end
of the war. The two Desert Rats were not quite as lucky they appear
to have been murdered by a mob.
I don't understand your fanatical tirade against the USA. You are
American and I know you are anti war as are a lot of people, yet you
seem to think the whole of the USA government has a hidden agenda.
I don't know if your opinions are indicative of American people
generally but I wonder if you stood up in, say, a bar and stated your
opinions it could be construed as "batting for the other side". You
might not like the war but I don't think the answer is to denigrate the
people who, whether you like it or not, are fighting for our freedom to
state the opinions we have stated without fear of retribution or death.
You as well as I have been brought up in a country where free speech is
a right and you are using that right liberally as is your want. Is it
fair to deny opposed people that same right.
Lizzie if you were an Iraqi in Iraq would you rather leave things be or die in the attempt for liberation. I would really like to know.
Yes I do think the USA has underlying goals in this war, although I am
naive I am not that naive BUT amongst and amidst this there is a genuine
push for some sort of democracy in this country. War may not be the
ideal solution but peace was never on offer for the people of Iraq under
Saddam's regime.
You say it so much better than I could Paula.
On Good Morning America a news person interviewed a General from your armed services Paula, and I am just so impressed with the way he aswered questions and conducted himself. As all our military people do that I have had the chance to listen to. We could learn a lot from them. My husband believes that everyone should serve in the service of their country, at least for two years. I have never agreed with him. Until now. In watching generals being interviewed by reporters, on down to the soldier in the field. These are people of honor and integrity it shows in the way they conduct themselves. They treat people with the utmost respect even if they do not agree with them.
On Good Morning America a news person interviewed a General from your armed services Paula, and I am just so impressed with the way he aswered questions and conducted himself. As all our military people do that I have had the chance to listen to. We could learn a lot from them. My husband believes that everyone should serve in the service of their country, at least for two years. I have never agreed with him. Until now. In watching generals being interviewed by reporters, on down to the soldier in the field. These are people of honor and integrity it shows in the way they conduct themselves. They treat people with the utmost respect even if they do not agree with them.
Linda