Poem H

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:09 pm

Kush, the German Chancellor has already been in touch about arranging a formal meeting in Berlin, but I told her I'll be too busy with my LC friends so maybe some other time.

Thank you, Sandra, and thank you Andrew.

Laurie, why did I forget about punctuation?! I think you should mention it. If I'd known my poem was going to win and get so much attention I'd have revised it more. I started it late after abandoning other ideas, and would have liked to have put it away for a while and gone back to it. As you know, it gets difficult to be objective about a piece of writing when you have just been working on it. Am I allowed to add a couple of commas now, before it goes in the Berlin booklet? Or maybe just one badly needed one, between "secrets" and "swimming".

Yes the line beat thing was intentional, but only after I couldn't find an extra word for the white flowers line and thought it emphasised it more to be one beat missing.

I was hinting at the inevitable ending of summer days with the "sunset" in the first line and the "shadowy woods" - where the sun shines but inevitably casts a shadow. And of course the trees we climbed, the "woods", were to provide the coffin...

I think the "devoured" line to get the rhyme doesn't quite come off.

Thanks for 'instinctively' selecting my poem, Laurie

.

Lizzy, those last two lines, "Cold you lie in a box of wood, wreathed in happy white flowers" are a repeat of the lines, "Pretty you lie on warm green grass, wreathed in happy white flowers" and are indeed meant to provide the starkest contrast. I wouldn't say I chose to end it on a 'positive' note or anything. I would describe it as poem about the awful facticity of death. Of course there is the love that endures and happy memories and beautiful flowers of all colours, religious belief if you choose it and so on, but the fact of death is pretty final and I think we all deny that we or the people we love can die, until there is no choice but to accept it.

Love,

Diane

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:34 pm

Hi Diane ~

Yes, I did understand the intent of your repetition of the lines regarding Joy's being wreathed in happy white flowers, in the sense that you've said that. I know that 'positive' wasn't in your thinking as you wrote and closed your poem, yet I still liked being left with the white flowers and all the beauty that they represented.

I was hinting at the inevitable ending of summer days with the "sunset" in the first line and the "shadowy woods" - where the sun shines but inevitably casts a shadow. And of course the trees we climbed, the "woods", were to provide the coffin...

These comments you've offered give your poem even more depth than I had realized. Thank you for sharing them.

These two lines are also very strong and speak volumes of your lifelong relationship.

forging a lifetime allegiance
in sun-steeped innocent hours

Since some things that I've known about got edited, anyway, for the booklet for New York, my sense is that you'll be able to punctuate your poem to whatever degree you wish. It's yours.

I loved your poem from the beginning, but each time I read it, I love it even more. Your own comments deepen even further my growing appreciation.

Love,
Elizabeth

LaurieAK · Post by **LaurieAK** » Wed Mar 08, 2006 8:42 pm

Hi Diane~

I sent your poem to Henning 'as is' and told him you might like to make some changes.

Just contact him directly when you have it 'finalized' how you want it.

regards,
L

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:17 am

Lizzy I appreciate you taking the time to re-read my poem and write your comments here. You are right in a way, about the white flowers. I like the way they remain happy even though though the situation is terribly sad.

Oh great, Laurie, re Henning. I'll get it sorted.

Thanks

Diane

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:57 am

Hi Diane ~

There's also a very appreciable kind of contrast inside of these two lines with the words you chose.

forging a lifetime allegiance
in sun-steeped innocent hours

Forging, lifetime, and allegiance are all very intense in representation of a relationship. To forge something suggests a very heavy-duty kind of movement that lays ground. Lifetime of course is an intense period of time. Allegiances are not a light form of relationship or commitment.

Yet, with sun-steeped, even though steeped is a strong word, it's with the sun, so it's inherently lightened. Innocent, again, is lightness. Hours are a short period relative to a lifetime.

Yet, the paradox is that cumulatively, these innocent hours, the same as the gentle movement of water can carve mountains, spent in your innocence and the light of the sun, forged your and Joy's intense bond. I love the way this paradox feels. I love the phrase, "forging a lifetime allegiance" and all that this represents.

Love,
Lizzy

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:06 am

Diane wrote: Lizzy, those last two lines, "Cold you lie in a box of wood, wreathed in happy white flowers" are a repeat of the lines, "Pretty you lie on warm green grass, wreathed in happy white flowers" and are indeed meant to provide the starkest contrast. I wouldn't say I chose to end it on a 'positive' note or anything. I would describe it as poem about the awful facticity of death. Of course there is the love that endures and happy memories and beautiful flowers of all colours, religious belief if you choose it and so on, but the fact of death is pretty final and I think we all deny that we or the people we love can die, until there is no choice but to accept it.

Our society denies many areas of reality. I think you have touched on something of great importance. Death is absolutely final, it is brutal. There is no coming back. Are no cosy heavens or quaint reincarnations. There is no karma. The buck stops here. And the silence. The fucking silence. Decades later what you'd give for a simple chat. One word. You can't pick up the phone, go for a country drive. They just aren't there. Aren't anywhere. Until we understand the gravity of death and as Diane says accept it, we'll be forever living an illusion.

You don't see them again. But children are born and thus Life moves on. That's all we have; and memories.

Boss

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:13 pm

Just a quick reply for now cos I'm off for a few days to make the most of time before I start a new job. I hadn't thought of the strength of meaning behind those words, Lizzy, nor the paradox with the following line. That was unintentional, but it is very interesting to read your thoughts.

Boss, you are right that our society denies death by 'hiding it away' to an extent. But it is also human nature to deny the reality of death because it is what we most fear. We are all living in illusions to an extent.

Good wishes,

Diane

Boss · Post by **Boss** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:18 pm

And do those illusions reflect our insane weaponry, the sheer volume, the horrible potential? 'The widowhood of every government'? Are we so deluded to allow ourselves rulers both in govt. and business that cheat, lie and steal? Hell, half the planet lives in shit. And we live in illusion that our car's duco really matters. We live in illusion that Pepsi is better than Coke. And we live in illusion about death. But it sneaks through. Ask your friends, your neighbours what type of movies they watch, what type of papers they read. Invariably they are all about crime, or thrillers or murder. Why? Because the soul knows of its end. It needs reminding as we swim through the numbness that has become our time of possession and money. We know. There is only skewed illusion.

Boss

Tri-me · Post by **Tri-me** » Tue Mar 14, 2006 8:52 pm

Diane it is a beautiful poem.

Charles · Post by **Charles** » Thu Mar 16, 2006 3:53 pm

Congratulations Diane. A well-deserved win. Beautiful imagery.

Charles

Diane · Post by **Diane** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 2:24 pm

Thanks for your comments, Tri-Me and Charles.

OK, here's the final, polished version that I forwarded to Henning for the Berlin booklet. I confess that I entlisted Laurie to advise me about the polishing. It reads reads a little more smoothly now:

White Flowers

Two girls climbing trees 'til sunset
wove endless chains of wild daisies.
Pretty you lay on warm green grass,
wreathed in happy white flowers.

Sharing secrets, swimming rivers,
playing games in shadowy woods,
forging a lifetime allegiance
in sun-steeped innocent hours.

Now you lie in oblivion
in the back of a long black car,
drowned in an abysmal shadow
where chill, still darkness devours.

Pale sad letters of your glad name,
are spelled by sprightly carnations.
Cold you lie in a box of wood,
wreathed in happy white flowers.

Diane

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:53 pm

That's beautiful, Diane... good job with Laurie's help on polishing it.

Love,
Lizzy

Nightstalker · Post by **Nightstalker** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 6:42 pm

I admire either version. The abrupt end to life and justaposition of 'innocent hours' and 'oblivion' are as brutally honest and frank as is death itself. AFter many readings I am certain that this is why I like this poem so much. Please excuse an old guy for tampering, but I will submit a slight alteration below, since you are polishing your work anyhow. I wouldn't mention it if you were not already doing editing. I would change 'climbing' to 'climbed' to maintain parallelism because 'lie' was corrected to 'lay' (past tense). I moved 'wild' to the end of the verse for cadence and scenic emphasis thru double entendre. The additional commas definitely improve the grammar (which isn't IMO really that necessary in poetry, but I like to see it anyhow). I added one comma after 'Cold' for that same reason. You may have completed the editing process, but I humbly submit these ideas.

White Flowers

Two girls climbed trees 'til sunset
wove endless chains of daisies wild.
Pretty you lay on warm green grass,
wreathed in happy white flowers

Sharing secrets, swimming rivers,
playing games in shadowy woods
forging a lifetime allegiance
in sun-steeped innocent hours.

Now you lie in oblivion
in the back of a long black car,
drowned in an abysmal shadow
in chill, still darkness devoured

Pale sad letters of your glad name,
are spelled by sprightly carnations.
Cold, you lie in a box of wood,
wreathed in happy white flowers.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:01 pm

The comma after "Cold" puts wrenching emphasis on it, as well.

LaurieAK · Post by **LaurieAK** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 7:03 pm

Hi Nightstalker~

I can't tell you much glad it makes my heart

to see that you (or anyone) is paying attention to the details of poetry. That is what it is all about. It has to stand up to scrutiny.

That said, I'll comment on your suggestions:

As for the moving of WILD, you should not present language that is counter to the common spoken word. It is sort of Yoda-speak to place that adjective at the end of the sentence. At best, it seems Overly Poetic. Not a good thing. IMHO.

I can see why you wanted to convert CLIMBING, but one of the things Diane and I noticed was that the first two lines originally were not a complete sentence.

If it was changed to CLIMBED...."Wove" would have to be changed to "weaving" (see?). You need to make note of the syllable count of 8, except for the refrain.

I agree with your Lie/Lay assessment, using Diane's edited version.

Thanks again for your interest and comments.

Don't confuse my 2 cents as anything more than just two cents. I know Very little and this is DIANE'S poem.

regards,
L