The Beautiful Loosers

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:55 pm

And I, you, Tchoco.

PS: I hate it when I wind up on the page all by myself.

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:33 pm

Sorry I've been out of this thread for a while. I have enjoyed reading all the chit-chat though.

Just to confirm, I am male, 32 years of age and do work in a care home. Not as a cook though, as a team leader, though some of my duties do include cooking.

I do love jazz and blues and all other music.

I am still reading Beautiful Losers.

I have a few thoughts about it as I am reading. It was very daring for it's day, and even for this day with some of the sexual imagry in the writing.

It is taking me a while to read, because I am finding I can't read more than a few pages at a time.

I will keep you all up to date.

Dylan.

annaedith · Post by **annaedith** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 5:06 pm

hi dylan!
how nice to finally hear from you! i and certainly many others as well have been wondering where you are and wheter you're still reading! keep us up to date with your reading!

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:17 pm

Hi Dylan,

Nope. You didn't pick the easiest book to read (you did read Favourite Game, didn't you - far more accessible). But, we, as Cohenites, should be at least familiar with BL in a passing way. There is a great explanation by Leonard via ForYourSmile, I think, maybe even in this thread, where Leonard had likened the book to more of a 'sunstroke' than a novel, as he wrote it outside his house in Hydra sans chapeau.

I thought it funny and quite true. He had told a reader to just 'dip in' here and there, then maybe read a page or two, then later, if they wished, the whole thing. Look in ForYourSmile's profile for recent postings (if the quote is not in this thread) and check it out. It might shed some light. It might be in the French Canadians thread.

As to your gender, I really don't care one way or the other, it never came up and I'm sorry that it has now. I just assumed (with your avatar) that you were a she, but I could just as easily said he, no matter. But, as it has been mentioned on board, I guess you felt a need to verify. You should be like the American Military - never confirm nor deny.

- but that, Dylan, is up to you.

Look up the passage I referred to - its worth reading (and he speaks in plain English). I think he was supposed to be addressing a Chinese reader who was having difficulty with the book.

Don't be a stranger and keep plugging away, or like Leonard said, just dip into it from time to time. A page here, a page there. Whatever works for you.

Regards,
Linda.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:28 pm

Dylan,

Just to, uh, confirm for you, Tchoco and ForYourSmile had a discussion on this book just yesterday I believe and that's where you'll find the quote and other very interesting observations.

Linda.

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 9:48 am

http://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/lcbook5.html - here you'll find "A Note To The Reader", written for Chinese edition in 2000. I think that Leonard should ask all further foreigh enditions to print this in the books. Although I agree with ForYourSmile that this is only exusion of much older man who dooesn't share such thought anymore (as one Croatian critic wrote in 1996, when BL were translated: "There are many facets of Leonard Cohen. This Leonard Cohen probably doesn't exist anymore, and that old, wise man in zen monastery probabyly can't recognize him.")

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 2:13 pm

Hi Linda, Tom and Annaedith.

Thanks for your responses.

Linda, I am greatly complimented that gender is never an issue. Maybe I should have kept it a mystery.

It only takes a little search on me to see who I am though, as has been said, I am who I am on the internet. I use my real name always and am probably a bit too open with some people.
On this forum though, I feel very safe and respected, the same as I respect everyone who posts here.
You have been a great support to me Linda, as I have said before, and I appreciate it.

Thanks.

Annaedith, I am still reading. I am reading it cover to cover, though I can't absorb everything.

Tom, thanks for the link, it was very interesting. It confirmed some thoughts I already have about the book.

I just read part 38 of The History Of Them All. I was thinking of writing my own answers to the questions to myself.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Thu Jul 21, 2005 3:38 pm

Dylan,

You sure have a lot more discipline than I do! I wish I could make a go of it right now (then we, too, could have a discussion!), but these days its hard for me to even get the paper read, and I have a book going at all times - however, not this one for a while yet.

Naturally, in my second post, I forgot to confirm that the thread in which Tchoco and ForYourSmile had their discussion was in Leonard Cohen and the French Canadians. There you have it. I look forward to hearing of your opinions shoud you wish to post them.

Linda.

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 1:08 pm

Hi Linda,

I'm also reading two other books at the moment. I'm making the most of it before I start college full time in September.

Do you know the address for ForYourSmile? I can't seem to find it.

Thanks,

Dylan.

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:12 pm

You can send him PM thru forum, simply find one of his posts in another Beautiful Losers thread titled Leonard Cohen and the French Canadians in Comments and Questions Section.

tomsakic · Post by **tomsakic** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:15 pm

Alas, viewtopic.php?p=45986#45986 - under the post you have PM and his email adress and PM and the link to his Cohen site in Catalan language.

Tom

Dylan · Post by **Dylan** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:49 pm

Thanks. I'll read through it later this afternoon.

All these great discussions to absorb.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:50 pm

Hello Dylan, there is too much to read and answer for me to follow up everything, here, right now, but your thread I'll surely follow it, as you are a rare reader of BL ready to exchange about it. I too was not able to read that book more than few pages at the time. Usually I read a book - when I read just one in the same time, which is rare, from cover to cover, speed fast. I tried with BL and get the nausea. This is not an image, I had real nausea. This is a compliment to the author, though, as what I like the most about BL is the force of the impact.

It make such an impact on me that I wanted to dissect its many layers (some day - because they are many and, phew... just to talk about one brings me to pages and pages of explanations, and I don't really have the time, right, now, maybe I should do it a 15 minutes 20 minutes here and there, instead of writing in this forum, after all) so I'll follow your notes with great interest.

Have a nice vacation before the college.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 5:31 pm

Well. Linda. I feel that I am accused of a crime I did not commit (being undiscreet on perso info about Dylan for being precise), again, like for the case of the poor Tom Sakic I was supposed to be after. (What a pain in the neck those....)

I was counting on your good will and sense of humour to put this straight with me, but without success, and it seems to go even worst in the wrong way. Consequently I have to make this straight myself without your help.

I quote your "nice" suggestions about me being what you suggests :

***

To me :
"Ah. OK. I had heard that before but not from Dylan's own fingertips. So, I just had to go with what I had 'officially' been given. In any event, I hope Dylan does keep us up to speed on BL.

I had many conversations with Dylan and not once was the subject of his gender brought up. So, until such time as Dylan brings us up to date on the BL thing, I guess we have commandeered this thread for our own diabolical use!!

Linda

To Dylan :

As to your gender, I really don't care one way or the other, it never came up and I'm sorry that it has now."

****

Everything I wrote about Dylan were facts he himself had provided on this public forum, like, for example, this one :

"Dylan is my real name. I use it on all forums. Nina Simone is someone I greatly admire and respect."

Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:47 am

viewtopic.php?p=38506&highlight=dylan+real+name#38506

Your did participate in this thread, so I don't understand how you could have skipped this info.

Now do your own research for the rest.

Not that I advise you to be more careful and attentive to people you are corresponding with here, which could lead to a more enjoyable environment, I just say : please stop insinuating things about me. Thanks a lot.

No other comment. Nor smiley. Are necessary.

linda_lakeside · Post by **linda_lakeside** » Sun Jul 24, 2005 6:00 pm

Tchoco,

I was insinuating nothing about you. I did not put the pieces of our conversations together in the same way that you did. I did not feel as though there was something to 'repair' or 'put back together' (my words). All those comments were in different conversations, and each was not addressed to any one particular topic.

My comment about taking over this thread for our own diabolical use, was, to me, at least, an obvious 'joke' for want of a better word. The point being that Dylan hadn't been around for a while and that the thread was not, at that time, being used to speak specifically about BL.

Again, we seem to have crossed our wires. I didn't think there was anything to 'defend'. To me there were no 'issues'.

Please try not to jump to conclusions. I honestly don't think that there is any 'ill will' surrounding any of this. No one is accusing you of a crime. As for Dylan's quote. What??? I don't read every single post in every thread, and I don't necessarily open every link. Esp. if it is of a more personal nature. I don't need to know everyones 'bio'.

I'm quite happy to do my own 'research'. Any questions I may have asked you, were not meant as a suggestion for you to supply me with research information. It was just idle chit chat. It was you that jumped on the fact that I referred to Dylan as 'she'. Now, we're right back at square one. Sorry, Dylan. We'll try to keep our comments in this thread restricted to BL and not Dylan.

Linda.

At this point, what does it matter? Everything seems to have been said.