GEORGE W. BUSH

[Byron]

Andrew Mc. I cannot begin to imagine how frustrated people must be in your country. You know how I feel.

Midnight. I did get off my arse. I was one of millions who took to the streets. I was one of millions who conducted a peaceful protest. I continue to lobby whenever and wherever I can. Your suggestion of resorting to strikes, smacks more to me of advocating anarchy. It is not a serious option for many reasons.

You yourself, could present a case to us, for going on strike, but your arguments would have to be very persuasive and with examples of how effective it would be.

However, Tony Blair is the leader of a political party with an enormous majority in Parliament. We voted to put him there and we are having to live with our choice. So, one could say that we are experiencing a similar feeling of unhappiness to the feelings of half of your country's men and women.

We are getting reports in our press and media of a possible begining of a groundswell of civil unrest in America, because roughly fifty percent of Americans are totally opposed to actions being taken in their name. I hope this is untrue and only the scare tactics of newspaper sellers wanting to create news for their own means.

bee. keep em' comin.' You're the best example on this forum of the need for sensible debate.

ps.
bee. perhaps you 'forgot' to extend your condolences?

[lightning]

George Bush dies and goes to heaven and is met by St. Peter, who tell him they seldom come across Republicans, so before they can let him in for
Eternity he will need to do a 24 hour trial period in both Heaven and Hell to see where he feels he is most suited.

Dubya goes to Hell, and when he opens his eyes he finds himself on a lush golf course -- the sun is shining and in the distance is a beautiful
clubhouse. Standing in front of it is his dad and thousands of other Republicans, Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, Jerry Falwell, Colin Powell and the whole
gang.

They wave and greet Dubya, hug him, and reminisce about the good times
they had back when they were alive. They play a round of golf and dine on lobster and caviar. The Devil himself hands Bush a huge frosted
Margarita. Dubya finds himself liking the Devil, who he thinks is a really
very friendly guy who tells funny jokes and pulls hilarious nasty
pranks, kind of like his Yale Skull and Bones brothers back in his college days.

They are having such a great time that, before he realizes it, it's
time to go. Everyone gives him a big hug and waves as Bush heads back to Heaven. For the next 24 hours Bush gets to hang out with a bunch
of reasonably good-natured people who enjoy each other's company, talk about things other than money, and treat each other as decently as they are
able. While the food is good, there's no lobster and many of the people that he meets are from decidedly lower class and quite ordinary
backgrounds. In fact he doesn't see a single person that he knows. Worst of all, Jesus is there and turns out to be a kind of Jewish hippie peacenik.
"Whoa," Dubya says uncomfortably to himself, "Pat Robertson never prepared me for this!"

At the end of the 24 hours St. Peter asks Dubya where he'd like to spend Eternity. Dubya makes a show of reflecting for a few moments before
replying. "Well, to be honest I really think I belong in Hell with my friends."

The next thing he knows he opens his eyes and as far as he can see is nothing but utter devastation on an almost unimaginable scale; a barren
scorched earth covered dead bodies and garbage and toxic waste.His friends are chained together and moaning in pain as they shuffle about trying
to find shelter from the burning debris that falls continuously from the sky.

The Devil comes over and Bush stands there in shock. "I don't understand," says Dubya. "Where's the clubhouse and the lobster"?

The Devil smiles. "Yesterday we were campaigning; today you voted for us."

[John Etherington]

Hey Lightning - That's pure genius! (it's made my week).
Best wishes, John E

[simonelimone]

Excellent!


Thanks for this - Simon

[lizzytysh]

Poetic Justice, though I have a few derivatives on that.......

[margaret]

Thank you Lightning for this latest gem, as well as the earlier article from Wednesday. I've been too shocked, and upset since hearing the news when I woke on Wednesday morning to make any comment til now. Along with many others here I am really concerned for the future of our planet and for our children and grandchildren.

[lightning]

This one is from the Michael Moore, who made the films Farenheit 911 and Bowling for Columbine. Much of it is beyond me but there are probably people here who can appreciate it.


11/5/04

Dear Friends,

Ok, it sucks. Really sucks. But before you go and cash it all in, let's, in
the words of Monty Python, 'always look on the bright side of life!' There
IS some good news from Tuesday's election.

Here are 17 reasons not to slit your wrists:

1. It is against the law for George W. Bush to run for president again.

2. Bush's victory was the NARROWEST win for a sitting president since
Woodrow Wilson in 1916.

3. The only age group in which the majority voted for Kerry was young adults
(Kerry: 54%, Bush: 44%), proving once again that your parents are always
wrong and you should never listen to them.

4. In spite of Bush's win, the majority of Americans still think the
country is headed in the wrong direction (56%), think the war wasn't worth fighting (51%), and don't
approve of the job George W. Bush is doing (52%). (Note to foreigners: Don't try to figure this one out. It's
an American thing, like Pop Tarts.)

5. The Republicans will not have a filibuster-proof 60-seat majority in the
Senate. If the Democrats do their job, Bush won't be able to pack the
Supreme Court with right-wing ideologues. Did I say "if the Democrats do
their job?" Um, maybe better to scratch this one.

6. Michigan voted for Kerry! So did the entire Northeast, the birthplace of
our democracy. So did 6 of the 8 Great Lakes States. And the whole West
Coast! Plus Hawaii. Ok, that's a start. We've got most of the fresh water,
all of Broadway, and Mt. St. Helens. We can dehydrate them or bury them in
lava. And no more show tunes!

7. Once again we are reminded that the buckeye is a nut, and not just any
old nut -- a poisonous nut. A great nation was felled by a poisonous nut.
May Ohio State pay dearly this Saturday when it faces Michigan.

8. 88% of Bush's support came from white voters. In 50 years, America will
no longer have a white majority. Hey, 50 years isn't such a long time! If
you're ten years old and reading this, your golden years will be truly
golden and you will be well cared for in your old age.

9. Gays, thanks to the ballot measures passed on Tuesday, cannot get married
in 11 new states. Thank God. Just think of all those wedding gifts we won't
have to buy now.

10. Five more African Americans were elected as members of Congress,
including the return of Cynthia McKinney of Georgia. It's always good to
have more blacks in there fighting for us and doing the job our candidates
can't.

11. The CEO of Coors was defeated for Senate in Colorado. Drink up!

12. Admit it: We like the Bush twins and we don't want them to go away.

13. At the state legislative level, Democrats picked up a net of at least 3
chambers in Tuesday's elections. Of the 98 partisan-controlled state
legislative chambers (house/assembly and senate), Democrats went into the
2004 elections in control of 44 chambers, Republicans controlled 53
chambers, and 1 chamber was tied. After Tuesday, Democrats now control 47
chambers, Republicans control 49 chambers, 1 chamber is tied and 1 chamber
(Montana House) is still undecided.

14. Bush is now a lame duck president. He will have no greater moment than
the one he's having this week. It's all downhill for him from here on out --
and, more significantly, he's just not going to want to do all the hard work
that will be expected of him. It'll be like everyone's last month in 12th
grade -- you've already made it, so it's party time! Perhaps he'll treat the

next four years like a permanent Friday, spending even more time at the
ranch or in Kennebunkport. And why shouldn't he? He's already proved his
point, avenged his father and kicked our ass.

15. Should Bush decide to show up to work and take this country down a very
dark road, it is also just as likely that either of the following two
scenarios will happen: a) Now that he doesn't ever need to pander to the
Christian conservatives again to get elected, someone may whisper in his ear
that he should spend these last four years building "a legacy" so that
history will render a kinder verdict on him and thus he will not push for
too aggressive a right-wing agenda; or b) He will become so cocky and
arrogant -- and thus, reckless -- that he will commit a blunder of such
major proportions that even his own party will have to remove him from
office.

16. There are nearly 300 million Americans -- 200 million of them of voting
age. We only lost by three and a half million! That's not a landslide -- it
means we're almost there. Imagine losing by 20 million. If you had 58 yards
to go before you reached the goal line and then you barreled down 55 of
those yards, would you stop on the three yard line, pick up the ball and go
home crying -- especially when you get to start the next down on the three
yard line? Of course not! Buck up! Have hope! More sports analogies are
coming!!!

17. Finally and most importantly, over 55 million Americans voted for the
candidate dubbed "The #1 Liberal in the Senate." That's more than the total
number of voters who voted for either Reagan, Bush I, Clinton or Gore.
Again, more people voted for Kerry than Reagan. If the media are looking for
a trend it should be this -- that so many Americans were, for the first time
since Kennedy, willing to vote for an out-and-out liberal. The country has
always been filled with evangelicals -- that is not news. What IS news is
that so many people have shifted toward a Massachusetts liberal. In fact,
that's BIG news. Which means, don't expect the mainstream media, the ones
who brought you the Iraq War, to ever report the real truth about November
2, 2004. In fact, it's better that they don't. We'll need the element of
surprise in 2008.

Feeling better? I hope so. As my friend Mort wrote me yesterday, "My
Romanian grandfather used to say to me, 'Remember, Morton, this is such a
wonderful country -- it doesn't even need a president!'"

But it needs us. Rest up, I'll write you again tomorrow.

Yours,

Michael Moore
MMFlint@aol.com
http://www.michaelmoore.com

[Joe Way]

I read the Moore column and chuckled as well. For those of you who are from outside our borders, Moore is from Michigan and Michigan vs. Ohio State is a huge football rivalry so that is one of the things he is referring to.

Please also check out http://www.borowitzreport.com

I believe the latest headline is: "After recount-It's Gore!" Most of us here in the states have fallen back on laughter as the best medicine.

One note to Teratogen:

I do remember you from New York and that was one of the main reasons I tried to intervene. You have much to be proud of as a young LC fan, and I wasn't questioning your anger only your response (and I don't want to emphasize age here really, but it comes into play as you will see). As far as referencing the Bolshevic revolution-and the killing of the Czar and his family-go out and rent "Dr. Zhivago." The Bush girls are about the same age as my daughters-all of them along with you would probably be draft age and you can be sure that any new drafts will be unisex. This will probably be a long struggle and we will need people who are thoughtful, convincing and steadfast in their beliefs if we are to turn the tide away from those who would continue to lead us down the path of war. This election proved that there are many here among us who don't disagree with the president. That came as a shock to me. We can't change presidents for four years, but we can try to convince our friends that we are on the wrong path, but to do that we have to be reasonable, sensible and not alienate those who now oppose us. As circumstances become more clear-they may change their minds.

Joe

[Midnight]

Well, I knew most of the people on this forum would be furious...but I didn't realize the depth of your animosity. I'm talking real visceral hatred. Every time you post you reveal it. It's though you can't help yourselves...You can't stop yourselves. It's all very interesting. The thing is, I honestly believe if Kerry had won these emotions and feelings and attitudes towards conservatives would still be on display...only in a ha-ha, now-you'll-get-yours gloat-fest.

[jurica]

i don't think this anger is so much about Kerry being a better man than Bush as it is about 'there's nothing we can do'. from what we can tell here, US civil rights and civil freedom are down since Bush is the prez, economy is down, Bush made whole Europe angry at the US (US used to be a far country everybody likes to visit, with a lot of friendly people and all those pop icons, and now it is 'undemocratic hysterical nation most likely to start WWIII)... so why wote Bush again?

we are bewildered here. nobody expected him to win. we saw all those protests on TV, and figured - the guy will lose for sure.

some are bewildered there also, i think. this thing we tend to call democracy (whilst a better word would be mediacracy for sure) is a tricky thing. you feel like you are deciding on some issues, but in the end - it's a vast majority of people of mediocratic ability to comprehend political issues (and this is supprisingly low sometimes) that decides.

here's a stupid example that made me aware of human stupidity:
i was a freshman at university, and a professor made us use some instrument for the first time to determine a position of some point. before me, something like a dozen of students all marked the same spot. than i took the instrument and marked a completely different spot. the professor went crazy: - it's so simple an instrument! how could you be so wrong? do it once again!
second time i did the same thing and marked the same spot i marked the first time.
- i cant belive this - said the professor, and took the instrument. - you take it like this and...

...well, it was me that was right all the time. the first student marked wrong spot and all the others followed like sheep. they were afraid of their own work. they prefered to stay comfortable in majority, even if they were wrong.

and we're talking university students here. people who are supposed to be intelectuals.

how then can representative democracy work if people are like that? they won't vote who they think is right. they'll vote who TV tells them the rest of the people are going to vote.

[lizzytysh]

Dear Midnight ~

My feelings toward Bush [from the beginning] have been toward Bush, not conservatives. I've never felt the disdain for any President in my entire life that I've felt and feel for Bush. It has absolutely nothing to do with his party or his being a conservative. It has strictly to do with him. I won't recount all my reasons that were cited during the times prior to and including the onset of the Iraq war. In political arenas, I've voted for Democrats as well as Republicans....."the best man" phrase you hear so often. Things have mobilized so fiercely now that I voted straight Democratic this year.

What I'm feeling now has not to do with my feelings of disdain for him, as vastly much as it has to do with my feelings of fear, related to what he brings to the office of "President of the United States of America." The irony in my fear is that we are not united in his being there. I appreciate knowing the figures, and the bigger picture, related to that fact, which Moore has given us. Articles like Michael Moore's are extremely helpful from where I sit. I laughed at the things he selected, and there are many truths included in his humour. In fact, I'm glad to see Michael Moore taking a humourous perspective in his writings in response to the election results.

The "now you'll get yours" would not be part of my thinking if Kerry had won. It would have been immense relief, and "now maybe we won't all get what many consider to be 'ours'; maybe now we won't be giving others what some consider to be 'theirs'."

Not only am I from Michigan, but I'm from Flint ~ maybe it's something in that fresh water . Humour and laughter are proven to be some of the most healing factors there are; I laughed at Moore's article; and now I'm going to [hopefully] laugh at the Borowitz Report. I was shocked by the outcome of this election, too. I was even more disheartened by it. Since "Laughter Is The Best Medicine" [just ask Reader's Digest ], I want to at least be able to do that. Four years is feeling like a long time to me right now.

~ Elizabeth

[Midnight]

but in the end - it's a vast majority of people of mediocratic ability to comprehend political issues (and this is supprisingly low sometimes) that decides.

Jurica, that's what the losing side always says. Those dumb voters. If the Republicans had lost I'm sure they would be saying the same thing.

Bush made whole Europe angry at the US

Europe was already pissed off at us and has been for decades. Bush just rachetted it up a couple of notches. As long as Europe has their inferiority complex they will always be mad at us.

how then can representative democracy work if people are like that? they won't vote who they think is right. they'll vote who TV tells them the rest of the people are going to vote.

American TV, the main three networks, the big papers, NY TIMES, Washington Post, et al, and the Big Media were always giving us the reasons why we should vote for Kerry. Dan Rather of CBS nearly smashed his career trying to bring Bush down. But with the internet their days of monolithic power are gone. The voters aren't being "guided" by Big Media.

The other big story of this election were all the grass-roots initiatives on the ballots. Most of the propositions (if not all) on the ballots in all of the states came from the grass-roots and not the party elites. Whether it was gay-marriage, stem cell research, immigration reform or pot smoking measures--this was done by those little "stupid" people. Our democracy is a lot healthier than you suppose.

Are people stupid? Yeah, people are stupid. But they are not stupid all the time. The last thing I want is an "intellectual elite" making the decisions for me.

[Stranger]

Dear Midnight, I sense a touch of superiority in the assumption that Europe or any other continent/ country would feel inferior to the US. Could that flagging of superiority be a reason for the rest of the world to be mad at or "hate" the US?

[jurica]

American TV, the main three networks, the big papers, NY TIMES, Washington Post, et al, and the Big Media were always giving us the reasons why we should vote for Kerry. Dan Rather of CBS nearly smashed his career trying to bring Bush down. But with the internet their days of monolithic power are gone. The voters aren't being "guided" by Big Media.

i don't think Kerry would be much better than Bush. what your media (and it's the same all over the world) gives you is a virtual choice while you actually choose between two different sides of the same coin.

can you vote lower pays for politicians and higher for teachers, for example? can you vote for your country to polute the air we all breathe a little less? we'd all like that, wouldn't we? democracy should let you have that options. but this thing we call democracy only lets you chose who will exploit you, and in ideal case, how much he'll exploit you and other people around the world (since i think Kerry would be a little better than Bush).

in all - i don't see how democracy is comming to the USA or any other country.

[lizzytysh]

The Borowitz Report reminds me of The Onion. Funny points that it makes with bin Laden's shift in direction and Bush's Plan B.

Jurica ~ On the serious side, you make some excellent points. I also don't know how better off we'd have been with Kerry, either. But, there would have at least been some changes that would have allowed hope for that.

~ Lizzy