No Middleman

[raffzahn]

Morning everyone.
Paula, I agree that emoticons are sometimes necessary, particularly as none of you can actually see me constantly winking at the screen! Looking forward to the jokes, and honestly. when I said I was offended I didn't mean that people should not write what they feel or mean or anything, more putting out feelers to see if anyone else agrees with me - after all, I am aware that being at university and thusly constantly encouraged to be on the offensive my views might seem exaggerated.

But anyway Janem, I don't find L.C. at all offensive somehow..we are all allowed a few double-standards though I will re-listen to everything to make sure...did he say that women should be mysterious then?
Thanks for not holding it against me. Must go and be offended at a seminar now...

[Kush]

If I am short and ugly, should I be offended that men have in general had to be tall and handsome to be attractive to women ???
Why is it that every woman that was ever connected to the pop-star Leonard Cohen been stunningly beautiful ? Would that mean that a woman has to be beautiful to get his attention ? Anything less, no chance.

That's the way it goes, folks....feminism is good but it's hard to fight biology at a personal level.
Raffzahn, I wasnt even being serious in the first place. The evidence would suggest my preference towards good conversationalists more than anything else. But since you would make an issue out of something like this I decided to resort to ridicule a little bit.....

[Linda]

I haven't read this thread closely but I would like to comment that to me LC is not physically attractive. But the mind and the voice won me over. When I first saw him on Austin City Limits my reaction wasn't "Wow is he good looking". It was his song.
Good questions Kush! Well, Leonard what have you got to say to that ?

[lizzytysh]

Dear Kush,

I understand what you're getting at with your comments and questioning. However, perhaps Leonard simply attracts and resonates with what he himself is on the inside [an outward manifestation]. As a woman, I certainly have no issue with his having been in the company of many beautiful women. Those with whom he has partnered appear to be beautiful inside, too.....he might even say moreso than he . The law of attraction is pretty undeniable and serves a strong purpose. He's discussed this somewhat with regard to women in the "fertile" age range. In his position, there will be many drawn to him, moreso than with the non-celebrity man. I don't see him as terribly unique in his selection of women, compared with other male celebrities.....well, except that his long-term relationships seem to have lasted longer . I don't feel his partners having had magnificent, physical attributes undermines who he is.

Dear Linda,

I've always found Leonard to be very attractive externally, as well as internally. His genteel manner and kindness lend to his outward beauty, as well. If I use others' reactions to his photo on my desktop at work, the vote appears to be in his favour with others, too.

~Lizzytysh


Having received a PM regarding this post , I want to clarify that my responses above are restricted strictly to the physical. My own feelings regarding Leonard make his physical attributes pale by comparison, and are far deeper and more complex than how those atoms happened to get arranged [this time around ].

[eeey]

Lizzytysh...

This photo of Leonard on your desktop....is it of a 68 year-old Leonard? Or is it of a younger LC?

It's not for nothing that the "young" version of Elvis was chosen for a U.S. stamp. Or that the "young" version of LC was chosen for the cover of the Essentials CD.

So Leonard..."Here's looking at you, kid."

eeey

[Janem]

Hiya folks,

I agree with both sides, those who think Leonard is basically attractive (what a delicious topic!) and those who think the attraction comes from his qualities of voice and talent and aesthetic vision. But here is something that just crossed my mind, what do you think of it: Don't you think it is more specific than that. It's not just his dizzying talent and spine-nubby voice, it is the fact that his poetry/song lyrics actively create a suave, attractive Poet-as-Lover persona in their themes and content. Thus encouraging us to conflate the man and the persona. His stage presence (sigh, which I have only heard about, never experienced directly) also encourages us to transfer our attraction to the Lover Persona, to the Actual Leonard, what with his famous sartorial elegance which comes across even in pictures.

The Electro-Magnetic Mesmerizing Force Field created by this attraction would be enough to overcome any flaws his looks may be seen as having in the subjective tastes of those few women in his listening audience who might otherwise have questioned his innate attractiveness. (I confess, I am stunned at the thought that some may actually not find him physically attractive, but then everyone has her taste, and mine runs to his type...)

Sound plausible?

-Janem

[Janem]

This photo of Leonard on your desktop....is it of a 68 year-old Leonard? Or is it of a younger LC?

eeey, good point, about our youth culture at large. But for me personally, and I have reason to suspect there are a fair number of women who'd agree, the older image of Leonard is actually even more attractive. (And I am half his age!) Maybe it has something to do with the compassion one gains as one gets older being more evident in the older face? Or something, I don't know. Let us call it Sean Connery Syndrome.

-Janem

[Linda]

If I were to have a picture on my desk, which I wouldn't, it would have to be the LC at 68, who he is now. How do any of us know the real Leonard Cohen, isn't he what we have conjured up from what we read about him, his poetry, by listening to his songs, etc. You have to spend a lot of time with someone to really get to know them. I bet he snores

[lizzytysh]

Hi eeey,

The photo on my desktop happens to be of Leonard when younger. It's a photo I had never seen at the time and was struck by.....he's looking away with a pleasant, yet serious look. I have no problem with a "younger" photo, in that Leonard is Leonard is Leonard ~ he, as all of us, are likely to look different next month from what we look this month. So, theoretically, we should always update our photos with every change that anyone notices?

That's to the extreme with facetiousness, of course....however, when someone commented on this photo today, the first words they heard from me were how old he is now, what his hair now looks like, and that he spent 6 years on Mt. Baldy. She also heard the words to Suzanne, plus all the genres in which he excels. The next thing she'll hear from me will be excerpts from The Essential Leonard Cohen.

There are a number of other photos I would be thrilled to display here. However, whoever, did me a favour by putting this one here would need to do the same with another. At some point, I'll do that....just haven't bothered, as it involves asking someone else to stop what they're doing, etc., etc. I enjoy 99.999% of photos I see of Leonard, regardless of his age or "look." Can only think of one I don't really care for. When I see any photo of Leonard, a whole history of my association with him "passes before my eyes." His photos are only the trigger, yet I find pleasure in seeing the seriousness and profoundness in his eyes.

[Kush]

>>>>>How do any of us know the real Leonard Cohen, isn't he what we have conjured up from what we read about him, his poetry, by listening to his songs, etc. You have to spend a lot of time with someone to really get to know them.

Touche', Linda. I agree completely.

[lizzytysh]

Hi Linda,

When I say "my desktop," I mean that background area on my computer, where the icons are placed for easy access. Hence, Leonard's face is nearly life-size, fine with me.

Hi Janem,

I added a paragraph to my original posting on this. Maybe an emoticon in the body as well. It's difficult for me to relate to someone's not finding him attractive, as well; but hey.....it's fine with me. I likely might not agree with their selections either. Such a personal thing.

I agree very much with what you've said regarding the image that is created through the merging that occurs with his voice, his words, and his songs....."Lover Persona." I know that you know that it remains an "image" and that only through the pleasure of his company would you truly come to know the man. I didn't really take your words to suggest that what we perceive constitutes "knowing" him, anyway. Not sure how that misperception came about. However, it seems we do impute a presumed knowledge of him, through the words of others who have come into close proximity with him. The reports of him are of remarkable consistency. Likewise, his "famous sartorial elegance which comes across even in pictures".......it's just the way it happens to be. It captures on film with him.

I love that "Electro-Magnetic Mesmerizing Force Field"

~Lizzytysh

[Paula]

I think Leonard is drop dead gorgeous. I have a picture of him on my wall at work a recent one and everyone thinks it is Dustin Hoffman.

I think Jewish men merge into the one interchangable face, Leonard, Dustin, Jackie Mason, Robert de Niro (no I know he is not Jewish).

If Leonard worked in the local Sainsburys packing shelves I don't think I would think he was good looking so it is a power thing also.

He also reminds me of my dad so an Odipus complex in reverse also. I think he has a kindly, friendly face with the personality to match. I also get the impression from anything I have ever read about his children that he is a good father and that whams him straight up in my estimations. In the word of a Eurovision Judge I would give him one.

[Gaia]

I think Leonard Cohen is (and always was) an attractive man and this is better than to be "just another pretty face" because it is increasing with years.

Paula,

Jewish men I have around came in all sizes and colours
What about Peter Coyote for your "collection"?

I like the tree of flames. It is burning for real although the force is gentle and I'm still looking into the mysterious eyes of the other little Japanese being.

[Sore Loser]

Dear Linda,

I bet he snores too!


Dear Lizzy,

It seems to me his "long-term" relationships with these beautfiul women weren't anything to write home about. Just from a cursory reading of "Various Positions" you get the clear idea that rampant infidelity, betrayal, and ultimate abandonment was his M.O.

O.K. sometimes good songs or poems come out of this kind of pain. But I just bet the pain wasn't all his.

SL

[Janem]

How do any of us know the real Leonard Cohen, isn't he what we have conjured up from what we read about him, his poetry, by listening to his songs, etc.

Yes, this is what I was saying, we do not and cannot know the real Leonard. Was anyone saying I was saying otherwise?

What I'm sayin' is, we the readers, we the listeners, take the Poetic Persona that Leonard creates in his Art and merge it with the template of the Real Leonard, whoever he is. So that when we look at a pic of him, what we see is that Persona from the Art, which is all we know. This is how it is with any famous person, but an artist especially, and a performance artist more especially.

Unless we are his sister or his friend or something. Then we'd see both, and wouldn't that be interesting.

And his particular Persona is one that has all these appealing intriguing qualities as a very experienced Lover. That is part of the attraction we (women) feel when we see his picture, I am suggesting.

Of course, as we all know, poets and artists draw upon their inner lives for their art and their artisitc personae, so that's not to say that it is entirely unrelated to him!

-Janem