What do you answer when somebody calls Leonard kitschy?

[Frankie Lee]

Sorry that I have to ask this question.

But what do you answer when somebody calls Leonard kitschy or mawkish?

(I don't know of I can use the word kitschy in English, but my dictionary says so.)

I'm from Germany, and "Kitsch" is a very bad word for me, for people who have good taste or think that they have one.
We've got so many words like "Kitschheini".

On Tuesday I was really shocked. I was sitting in a cafe with my former school teacher, and we were talking about music. Then I mentioned Leonard, that I learned about the nature of men and women and also about love when I listened to his songs.
Then he called Leonard kitschy!

Well, boys and girls: What would you have answered?

Love, Frankie

[lizzytysh]

Hi Frankie ~

I think I'd have pursued the depth of your teacher's experience with Leonard's music [and Leonard]. When was the last time s/he had listened to Leonard. On what songs/albums was that 'conclusion' drawn? It could be that his/her exposure has been very limited, and this conclusion was made long ago, or more frequently, with minimal listening. That's where I'd have at least started ~ and then gone from there.

~ Lizzy

[Andrew (Darby)]

The (Shorter) Oxford Dictionary defines "kitsch" (noun) as:
"Art or artefacts perceived as being of poor quality, esp. when garish or sentimental; these enjoyed in a perverse or self-conscious way; the qualities associated with such art or artefacts."

Frankly, I can't see how LC's music fits the overall thrust of this definition, even though some of us fans may wax sentimentally about some of his songs at times!

Cheers
Andrew (Darby)

[Tchocolatl]

I feel the same when confronted to somebody who does not like him! Abashed! Because the reaction is never ligth, in my experience, always strong with emotion. Well well well don't they say again and again that noboby can stay indifferent to Leonard Cohen? Yes "they" did. When we think about it, Frankie Lee, it is the biggest compliment.

[Tony]

Chacun a son gout. Excuse the lack of accents, it is more to my taste.

[Tchocolatl]

Yes, some find it more easy for swallowing their syllables "Chacun ses goûts", you are right. It is exactly what I say in these case. How one can discuss about this? But in my mind I think what I answered to Frankie, frankly.

[simonelimone]

Let him think so.

[justinburnett]

Thankfully, I've never experienced such a bizarre thing. I did have a friend of mine, upon hearing that I'd just bought the Best of Leonard Cohen album, say (jokingly) "So is it a single?" But oh well. That's why there's such a wide range of music out there -- so that everyone can find something they like. I hate a lot of music that other people think is wonderful.

Take care
-J-

[Kush]

Well I was listening to LC while working late one time and the late-night janitor comes by my office and after a minute or so while he goes about doing his thing, says "Who died?"

[Lily_Marlene]

I have had many unfortunate experiences with people who do not appreciate Leonard's music. They simply don't get it. And I don't get why they don't get it!

Leonard Cohen's fans are drawn to him. It is like a gravitational pull. I have never met a casual Leonard Cohen fan. People either really like him, or they really don't like him.

My mother has often told me that she doesn't understand why I haven't been driven to suicide from listening to L.C for so many years. She refuses to visit unless I promise not to play Leonard's music.

[Midnight]

I read a critic (I'm thinking it was John Simon) who said, "Leonard Cohen was the Rod McKewn of the carriage trade."

Ouch.

[Anth]

I have some friends who calls Cohen's works kitchy, clumsy and so on. So what? De gustibus non est disputandum. I would answer: "Well, that's your problem but I think that you are wrong".

[Tchocolatl]

Thankfully, I've never experienced such a bizarre thing.-J-

I must say it does not happen so often. Veneration and/or reverence is what I experienced more usually.

Another amusing anecdote : on another forum I read a message that a fan left about "today" being his birthday (guess the date) and she asked how people intended to celebrate? Someone (a man) answered this : "by being a little pessimistic"?



His energy is strong. The energy that passes into his voice, at any age. Even the energy of the sound of his name is strong. How could he left someone indifferent with such an energy?

[lizzytysh]

I agree, Tchocolatl. That's what I've also always said about the strength in the sound of his name. Everything is energy. Leonard's energy has a strength and a depth that many people simply aren't used to; however, a strong reaction from someone is far better than a blase one. It quite possibly means that Leonard has struck something in them that they are not wanting to acknowledge or deal with. That's my opinion .

[Karri]

Those people who have trouble taking LC´s music seriously tend to only be familiar with the stuff on "I´m Your Man" - which, let´s face it, is a bit cheesy, in terms of production. Even the lyrics on that album are hardly top-notch quality, IMHO. A friend of mine (actually, the only
LC fan among my friends) said that even "Ten New Songs" has a demo-like quality to it. Well, I can see his point (the same probably goes for "Various Positions" as well) but that doesn´t prevent me from enjoying those two albums, filled with songs that I find warm, profound and soothing.

So, the "kitchiness" tag that some people attach to LC´s music probably has something to do with the production of his albums, rather than the depth of the lyrics.

Karri