should lesbians adopt children?

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:29 pm

As this is a topic about people does not talk much in my country I would like to know the opinion

of more "developed" cultures in that things.
this week there is a public trial for the keeping of three girls of 9, 4 and 3 years old of whom their mother has proclaimed being a lesbian and actually lives with other woman as her couple. the father of the girls (her husband) wants the custody and it has been denied.....(?)
I would like your opinion

and if you do not want to give it in public please tell me about it in a private message........thank you

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Tue Apr 06, 2004 9:53 pm

I don't have a problem about gays adopting what I do have a problem with is the cavalier way Courts treat fathers. Where is it written in stone that mothers make the best carers and why are fathers glossed over as second class parents. There are a lot of unmarried fathers desperately trying to have contact with their children and the Courts in this country for some reason fail to action Court Orders giving them access and let the mothers do as they please.

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 3:14 am

thank you Paula for your reply.
I should not have said adopt ..because in the specific the girls are her daughters...

Cia · Post by **Cia** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 10:46 am

It is hard to understand that people have to be judged by their sexual preferences. It's such a little part of the personality and really has nothing to do with your ability in raising children and giving them the most important thing in the world, love!

My generation is mostly brought up by mothers, as the fathers did not find the need to be anything else than a moneymachine. Luckily these things are changing, so both parents take care of their kids. So yes Paula, I totally agree with you.
My younger friends use much more time together with their kids than my husband and I ever did. We have more or less followed the pattern given by the example of our parents. Let's hope that pattern belongs to history.
Let homosexuals have same rights as everyone, and leave it to them to have a relationship with the one they love.

I am lucky to live in Denmark where we have one of the worlds most tolerant attitudes against minorities. Even thou it seems as if there is a negative attitude against other groups, f.ex. refugies

Go make a difference Sandra, you got the right thoughts - hugs from Cia

Paula · Post by **Paula** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 2:27 pm

Cia you are right a loving home is a loving home regardless.

I do have a bit of a bee in my bonnet at the moment about British Courts riding roughshod over fathers. The mother is normally granted custody of children from a relationship that has gone pear shaped and I do think the mother is normally the best to look after children especially young ones. The problem with British Courts is they grant Orders to fathers so they can have access and some mothers just ignore these Orders and the Courts (who are not powerless) choose to let these mothers deprived the father of his children.

It is not black and white there are many grey areas, I am not advocating violent, unstable etc etc ex-partners being foisted on children but for reasonably minded fathers it just seems to me that they have been dealt a bad hand.

The refugee issue is a major one in Britain at the moment and I am certainly of the view we have too many economic refugees and the floodgates are opening in a few weeks. Britain which is a very tolerant country will implode if something isn't done about the asylum situation.

Epurcelly · Post by **Epurcelly** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 8:30 pm

Cia wrote:It is hard to understand that people have to be judged by their sexual preferences.

That is right, it is hard for an open minded person to understand. Unfortunatly, there are some very influential bastards that view homosexuality as a disease. The dumb-fuck Pope is one, and the even dumber-fuck, G.W.Bush is another.
Of course homosexual folks should be able to adopt children. I do not even have to think about that, the answer is clear: DISCRIMINATION IS BAD... Have we made any progress towards an enlightened culture?
With debates such as this, I tend to think not. Although we here are in agreement, there are plenty of people who would fight tooth and nail on this topic... Gay marriage has been quite an issue in the US as of late and the fund. right is spreading their ignorant bullshit all over this topic as well. They continually site "the sanctity of marriage," as if homosexuals are a lower life form capable of soiling a dated tradition that, fifty percent of the time ends in hateful court trials, devastated and confused children, conversations through lawers, and all the while, the bounty of the estate being divided by a jaded and overworked judge. Please spare me the bullshit!
Love is love and should be sought after and embraced. Love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is love, love is the last beauty before the light...

margaret · Post by **margaret** » Wed Apr 07, 2004 9:56 pm

I agree with previous comments. No one gender whether gay or straight has a monopoly on being a good parent. I fear there will always be ignorant bigots who hold positions of influence or power.

lizzytysh · Post by **lizzytysh** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 1:22 am

You said it in other ways, Epurcelly, but my thought when I read your particular comment was, "As if a man and a woman necessarily bring sanctity to that institution."

I've dealt [professionally] with abusive and neglectful parents, as well as parents owing child support. I say, "Give me two parents any sex, any colour, who actively love their children and will be involved in their lives in healthful and supportive ways. I'll be happy."

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:05 am

Warning :(especially for Coco, Hermitage, and Moonlight - that seems the only survivor of these three BTW)this message contain langage that can be offensive.

Some years ago, a gay (male) friend of mine told once that as the hetero parents had fu*ked up generations and generations of children, gay parents can certainly not do worst. He was a professional humorist at the time, and we laughed at the joke a lot, because it was so true. It hited the spot.

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 3:12 am

Father's rights are no so well recognized as mother's rights, this is true. I mean, this is false. This is unfair. This is a great injustice in fact, but this problem is difficult to deal with.

A child always want to know about his/her biological parents.

Kush · Post by **Kush** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:13 am

Whoa...there's no need to call names and such. Love love love love ...only for people who agree with you?

People grow up in different belief systems and it is much better to understand where someone is coming from rather than start calling names. Then you are guilty of the same thing you are accusing others of.

Most asian communities in US and in Asia are far less open and less accepting on gay issues - atleast the Pope and George Ws generations. Why stop with them in that case....why not brand entire communities as ignorant bigots and dumb-fucks? That's the stuff of intolerance and wars.
If you want to convince someone to your point of view its better to go to bar and have a drink with them and understand them. You have a better chance then of them understanding where you are coming from.

Change comes in small degrees - as issues come out more and more in the open people become more and more accepting after the initial shock to their belief system. It comes earlier in some places and later in others.

Sandra · Post by **Sandra** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 4:50 am

thank you for your answers....
the problem that men lose more than women in that is not what I was talking about.
I think about the children when growing with that special couple how would they feel........'??????????? hard to know.
I do not know if there are follow up studies of children that had grown under such circumstances......I mean if their sexual identity is affected in some way ?????????????' hard to know because sexual identity needs the same sex model to grow up well ...........or not.........????????????

Tchocolatl · Post by **Tchocolatl** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:06 am

Sandra, I meant : the children are the great losers about that, not men.

I think that wathever the sexual orientation is, men and women are different and complementary beings and are necessary to each other (not just "in bed").

And for this :

I do not know if there are follow up studies of children that had grown under such circumstances......I mean if their sexual identity is affected in some way

How do you explain, with this theory that children from hetero families could be gay(s) sometimes? (I mean if the sexual orientation of the parents is so important?).

As far as I know the son of my gay friend's boyfriend was raised by his lesbian mother and her mate, and later by his gay father (and my friend) but himself was heterosexual. This is not a study, however.

And what are you doing with bi-sexuality?

Passed the initial cultaral shock (when existing), like Kush said, what remains? Only human beings with all their differences asking to be accepted? Maybe.

Epurcelly · Post by **Epurcelly** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 6:47 am

YOU CAN NOT BE INFLUENCED TO BE GAY OR STRAIGHT!

Epurcelly · Post by **Epurcelly** » Thu Apr 08, 2004 7:01 am

Kush wrote:why not brand entire communities as ignorant bigots and dumb-fucks? That's the stuff of intolerance and wars.
If you want to convince someone to your point of view its better to go to bar and have a drink with them and understand them. You have a better chance then of them understanding where you are coming from.
.

Kush- People that feel as though homosexual men\women are second class citizens are not people that I respect. I'm sorry. I'm not even sure that after their explanation as to why, I would be able to understand... Would most likely chock it up to ignorance.
This should be a bumper sticker:
"DO NOT TOLERATE INTOLERANCE OF INTOLERABLE TOLERANCE"
We can all agree on confusion and go home to fuck in our respective asses...