Free verse emerged as a legitimate form of writing, to be considered in the "poetry" category, and unlike prose or poetry to be considered wholly within those categories.
Say what?
Femme Fatal mistake
Hi Everyone,
Let me also put a little contribution here. I’m not a specialist in study of literature so can’t say something “wise” upon this theme – just some primitive comments.
I hardly ever write “poems”. I have maybe 20 of them, not more than that. And when I wrote those “verses”, of course, I read them to my friends. It wasn’t true poetry but my friends liked it, nevertheless – and I know they really did. They liked my poems for that very reason that it was interesting for them to know what I feel, how I express my feelings, and so on. And for the same reason I did like ones written by them, too. It was just a way to talk about some things which couldn’t be spoken of in prose… And it still was poetry that imbued the words of our clumsy lines and the sounds of our voices when we read our “works” to each other. And why was it so? Maybe because poetry is still something that “lives” in the human heart or somewhere “on the way” from heart to heart and writing isn’t a kind of blameless word constructions making… Yes, the form is important, as well. And someone can create a perfect form and then, well, he or she can be considered a “professional”; someone else, expressing his/her feelings, uses forms which look like ones created by others; another one writes in his/her own manner… But does all of that really matter when people just try to share their feeling with each other, to open their hearts to each other? And is it possible to say, “This is poetry and that is not”?
Let me also put a little contribution here. I’m not a specialist in study of literature so can’t say something “wise” upon this theme – just some primitive comments.
I hardly ever write “poems”. I have maybe 20 of them, not more than that. And when I wrote those “verses”, of course, I read them to my friends. It wasn’t true poetry but my friends liked it, nevertheless – and I know they really did. They liked my poems for that very reason that it was interesting for them to know what I feel, how I express my feelings, and so on. And for the same reason I did like ones written by them, too. It was just a way to talk about some things which couldn’t be spoken of in prose… And it still was poetry that imbued the words of our clumsy lines and the sounds of our voices when we read our “works” to each other. And why was it so? Maybe because poetry is still something that “lives” in the human heart or somewhere “on the way” from heart to heart and writing isn’t a kind of blameless word constructions making… Yes, the form is important, as well. And someone can create a perfect form and then, well, he or she can be considered a “professional”; someone else, expressing his/her feelings, uses forms which look like ones created by others; another one writes in his/her own manner… But does all of that really matter when people just try to share their feeling with each other, to open their hearts to each other? And is it possible to say, “This is poetry and that is not”?
Yes, Moonlight, more than a bit convoluted, that sentence 
. I was in a hurry [can you tell?].......what I meant to say was that 'free verse' is more in the 'poetry' realm than it is in the 'prose' realm. Yet, it still doesn't hold to the strict parameters of 'poetry.'Better? If not, I'll give it another shot
.~ Lizzytysh
Hi Moonlight ~
If I went to your son's or daughter's basketball game, and after they'd finished playing, win or lose, and getting pats on the back from each other for having played a good game [you can read that as having tried hard, and done the best they could, win or lose], and disdainfully said to them, "This isn't basketball. I haven't seen any of you play basketball yet!" ~ I suspect you might ask me what my credentials are for making such derisive remarks, after you had just watched them play their hearts out. If not, you should. Otherwise, I would be perceived as being, or [chagrin] as pompously acting like a scout for some pro-basketball team.
Likewise, if I were doing that here, in this section, you would do well to ask me what my credentials are, as my comments would be coming from a place of supposed authority.
I don't care if you agree or disagree with me at all, Moonlight. It has nothing to do with that. What it does have to do with is reasonable, if not intelligent, discussion. If you're going to proclaim something as not having measured up to a standard, then you better be prepared to share what that standard is and/or how you came by that measurement/standard. Otherwise, it looks, as it already seems to be, purely arbitrary.
~ Lizzytysh
If I went to your son's or daughter's basketball game, and after they'd finished playing, win or lose, and getting pats on the back from each other for having played a good game [you can read that as having tried hard, and done the best they could, win or lose], and disdainfully said to them, "This isn't basketball. I haven't seen any of you play basketball yet!" ~ I suspect you might ask me what my credentials are for making such derisive remarks, after you had just watched them play their hearts out. If not, you should. Otherwise, I would be perceived as being, or [chagrin] as pompously acting like a scout for some pro-basketball team.
Likewise, if I were doing that here, in this section, you would do well to ask me what my credentials are, as my comments would be coming from a place of supposed authority.
I don't care if you agree or disagree with me at all, Moonlight. It has nothing to do with that. What it does have to do with is reasonable, if not intelligent, discussion. If you're going to proclaim something as not having measured up to a standard, then you better be prepared to share what that standard is and/or how you came by that measurement/standard. Otherwise, it looks, as it already seems to be, purely arbitrary.
That which is within the quote box is hyperbole. It merits no response beyond that ~ and a couple of questions and answers, of my own. Do I have the capacity to respond with emotion? You bet I do. Do I feel free to express those feelings? You bet I do. Am I glad for those capabilities? You bet I am.You have to understand that not everyone is as emotionally involved with what goes on here as you are. One is perfectly capable of reading the efforts here without becoming unglued emotionally. Negatively or positively.
You didn't "question" anything, much less their validity as poetry. You proclaimed their 'lack of validity' as poetry.I just questioned their validity as poetry.
~ Lizzytysh
Dear Lizzytysh,
Let's you and I go to a basketball game. The teams have nine players. The backboard and basket is 3 feet off the floor. There are no boundarys. No personal or technical fouls are ever called. Field goals are worth 6 points. All free throws count as 10 points but if the player is weeping as he makes the goal he gets an extra 30 points. The referee is there to pat everyone on the back and offer emotional support. At the end of the game everybody wins.
At the end of the game, I can't help but conclude that what I've just seen is not basketball. I look over at you and you are rapturously crying because everyone on the two teams are shaking hands with one another and saying, "Good game."
And I'm the one who supposed to supply credentials?
M
Let's you and I go to a basketball game. The teams have nine players. The backboard and basket is 3 feet off the floor. There are no boundarys. No personal or technical fouls are ever called. Field goals are worth 6 points. All free throws count as 10 points but if the player is weeping as he makes the goal he gets an extra 30 points. The referee is there to pat everyone on the back and offer emotional support. At the end of the game everybody wins.
At the end of the game, I can't help but conclude that what I've just seen is not basketball. I look over at you and you are rapturously crying because everyone on the two teams are shaking hands with one another and saying, "Good game."
And I'm the one who supposed to supply credentials?
M
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George.Wright
- Posts: 1874
- Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2002 3:37 pm
- Location: Bangor, N.Ireland
It's nice to see Heretic distance himself from one of his multi-facated personalities or demons and say he is not responsible, it's like Himmler saying that he was not responsible for the final solution to the jews.
Nice One Heretic.
Georges
Nice One Heretic.
Georges
I am a right bad ass, dankish prince and I love my Violet to bits.
Hi Moonlight ~
Let's you and I not go to a basketball game together. I prefer the company of those who look for bridges, understanding, and acceptance of differences; and are willing to consider reframing of issues for the sake of these goals; as well as those who don't denigrate. Rapturous tears [thanks for the fine phrase] are reserved for more fitting situations.
Thanks for the sarcastic invitation. I sincerely decline.
To answer your question; yes, you would do well to supply credentials. You do a lot of side-stepping, evading, and ad hominem attacking.
~ Elizabeth
Let's you and I not go to a basketball game together. I prefer the company of those who look for bridges, understanding, and acceptance of differences; and are willing to consider reframing of issues for the sake of these goals; as well as those who don't denigrate. Rapturous tears [thanks for the fine phrase] are reserved for more fitting situations.
Thanks for the sarcastic invitation. I sincerely decline.
To answer your question; yes, you would do well to supply credentials. You do a lot of side-stepping, evading, and ad hominem attacking.
~ Elizabeth
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ALV_CAMPOS
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2003 10:09 pm
the funerbacia of emotions
well i have no idea about what are you talking , but i enjoy it, I know is something poetry based, my english don't allow me to travel with airbags beyond your words. But i like to talk, and when the wine sussurres(don't know if this word exists) places that inexists at my ear i become his mistrees, i love poetry and i feel sorry for all of you who doesn't speak portuguese, cause you would have sanguineous orgasms if you met the portuguese poet Fernando Pessoa..
I think it all begin with a poem posted by strictly confidential... well , what i would like to say is... i'm dancing with someone elses steps while the wind undress my shoes... and i read it somewhere that the pleasure of writing our own poems is a much more pleasure than reading... i forgot the rest....
A kiss to lizzytish, she seems like the stranger we see passing by on the street, and we thinki to ourselves, there is a person over there...
sorry my bad english, i am still learning
"By the time they celebrate my aniversary, i was happy and nobody was dead...at the old house, even my birthday was a tradicion from centuries, and the happiness of everyone, and mine, was sure, like any religion ...."
Fernando Pessoa(sorry master for have assassinated you poem with my poor translation)
an icecream of milkway for everybody...
I think it all begin with a poem posted by strictly confidential... well , what i would like to say is... i'm dancing with someone elses steps while the wind undress my shoes... and i read it somewhere that the pleasure of writing our own poems is a much more pleasure than reading... i forgot the rest....
A kiss to lizzytish, she seems like the stranger we see passing by on the street, and we thinki to ourselves, there is a person over there...
sorry my bad english, i am still learning
"By the time they celebrate my aniversary, i was happy and nobody was dead...at the old house, even my birthday was a tradicion from centuries, and the happiness of everyone, and mine, was sure, like any religion ...."
Fernando Pessoa(sorry master for have assassinated you poem with my poor translation)
an icecream of milkway for everybody...
Dear Alv_Campos ~
Thank you so much for your beautiful compliment, tucked in amidst your discussion of poetry and emotion. I was surprized to come upon it. I've experienced the scenario you speak of, as I've looked at others, and feel very honoured that you perceive me in this way
.
I was disappointed not to find "funerbacia" in my dictionary. Is it a Portugese word, Latin, or a blend you created for this occasion? "Funer" seems to relate to 'funeral' ~ is "bacia" to the other extreme, so the word represents the full range of emotions, or something like that? What does it mean? I think what you read about "the pleasure of writing our own poems" is probably quite true. We are fortunate here to have a community of people who understand that pleasure, and are willing to share the pleasure of others, who also write . Many of us truly enjoy each other. The beauty of life.
From all I've heard, I've always understood the people of Portugal to be very passionate. From the way you speak, and the thoughts you express [even with your still learning English], you seem to represent that aspect of your homeland
. Fernando Pessoa sounds wonderful, and I'm certain he would forgive any 'shortcomings' in your interpretations, and simply feel grateful that you care so much that you share him with people of different languages.
I believe you'll find that your English will improve as you continue coming here . Do you build windmills for private use? Do you use one for your own energy source ?
~ Lizzytysh
P.S. Thanks for the ice cream .
Thank you so much for your beautiful compliment, tucked in amidst your discussion of poetry and emotion. I was surprized to come upon it. I've experienced the scenario you speak of, as I've looked at others, and feel very honoured that you perceive me in this way
. I was disappointed not to find "funerbacia" in my dictionary. Is it a Portugese word, Latin, or a blend you created for this occasion? "Funer" seems to relate to 'funeral' ~ is "bacia" to the other extreme, so the word represents the full range of emotions, or something like that? What does it mean? I think what you read about "the pleasure of writing our own poems" is probably quite true. We are fortunate here to have a community of people who understand that pleasure, and are willing to share the pleasure of others, who also write
. Many of us truly enjoy each other. The beauty of life.From all I've heard, I've always understood the people of Portugal to be very passionate. From the way you speak, and the thoughts you express [even with your still learning English], you seem to represent that aspect of your homeland
. Fernando Pessoa sounds wonderful, and I'm certain he would forgive any 'shortcomings' in your interpretations, and simply feel grateful that you care so much that you share him with people of different languages.I believe you'll find that your English will improve as you continue coming here
. Do you build windmills for private use? Do you use one for your own energy source ?~ Lizzytysh
P.S. Thanks for the ice cream
.I have been reading through all these posts!! Finally at the end...
I just wanted to say that what draws me to poetry is finding a particular sentiment that moves me, that I can relate to, and that stirs feelings in my heart and soul. I care nothing for meter or rhyme or technique, though I admit that they can be used well and with lovely effect. I mostly write for myself, and have only occasionally posted here. Poetry, for my personal use, is a way to relieve myself of what lies burgeoning inside. It doesn't have to be 'good' or 'beautiful' or for anyone else. And so I think that I read in kind. I find Strictly Confidential's poem personally moving, and I read it, and felt something. Isn't that what matters most? And how wonderful to have the sentiments of another shared for all to read, we of a common bond who come here?
And, so long as it is not Roger Green going on about bananas....oh, just be grateful for any other lines...and as for those who would become a human banana, that is a different, living poetry in motion all together, and I am fully aware I have just been so cliche. But there are those who will smile.
I am thankful for a place where I may occasionally come and write something which for some reason or other, I feel I want to place beyond my inner thoughts or notebooks.
Elizabeth, you are the sweetest, by the way.
Heather
I just wanted to say that what draws me to poetry is finding a particular sentiment that moves me, that I can relate to, and that stirs feelings in my heart and soul. I care nothing for meter or rhyme or technique, though I admit that they can be used well and with lovely effect. I mostly write for myself, and have only occasionally posted here. Poetry, for my personal use, is a way to relieve myself of what lies burgeoning inside. It doesn't have to be 'good' or 'beautiful' or for anyone else. And so I think that I read in kind. I find Strictly Confidential's poem personally moving, and I read it, and felt something. Isn't that what matters most? And how wonderful to have the sentiments of another shared for all to read, we of a common bond who come here?
And, so long as it is not Roger Green going on about bananas....oh, just be grateful for any other lines...and as for those who would become a human banana, that is a different, living poetry in motion all together, and I am fully aware I have just been so cliche. But there are those who will smile.
I am thankful for a place where I may occasionally come and write something which for some reason or other, I feel I want to place beyond my inner thoughts or notebooks.
Elizabeth, you are the sweetest, by the way.
Heather
Thank you so much, Heather . I was so surprized and pleased to see your name on the contents page, showing you as the most recent poster in the Member's Poetry section, as it's been quite awhile since you've [at least] posted here 
.
I agree with what you're saying about poetry, and as the trends and norms, and all those other words that apply, have changed across time, so have people's 'tastes' in poetry. Especially in a Member's Poetry section [and I was one of those who 'smiled' at the idea of Roger Green and bananas, et al], the 'criteria' are not so stringent, nor should they be. I'm quite certain there are poetry-writing-workshop sites to fulfill those other purposes.
I so agree. I won't say that the 'beauty of the dance' isn't subliminally effected, at least somewhat, through the meter/rhyme/technique, thereby facilitating the stirring of feelings in our heart and soul. Yet, the concepts, even awkwardly expressed, are what do it, as well. So much has occurred on these levels here, that never would have, had the writers [yourself included, of course] held themselves to such [an impossibly] high standard of "world-class poet," at this juncture. I am grateful for those who have shared their writings. Tears, rapturous tears, anger, laughter, tenderness, sorrow, so many things that make us human have been prompted through their words, and have allowed us to share, and see, and feel, and know ~ clearly ~ that we are not alone. Like you, for me, that's what matters most.
Love,
Elizabeth
I can't believe what you've actually done for me, either, with your synchroncity . You've brought forward the very thread I wanted, to find the name of the Portugese poet, whom I thought of when I saw the book that I bought last night, Sonnets From The Portuguese by Elizabeth Barrett Browning. Now, I can write his name in the front of the book. I wasn't looking forward to the search, and now, it's miraculously done . Did you do me this huge favour on purpose 
? I've just written it in, "Fernando Pessoa (Passionate Portuguese Poet)" ~ thank you !!!
. I was so surprized and pleased to see your name on the contents page, showing you as the most recent poster in the Member's Poetry section, as it's been quite awhile since you've [at least] posted here .I agree with what you're saying about poetry, and as the trends and norms, and all those other words that apply, have changed across time, so have people's 'tastes' in poetry. Especially in a Member's Poetry section [and I was one of those who 'smiled'
at the idea of Roger Green and bananas, et al], the 'criteria' are not so stringent, nor should they be. I'm quite certain there are poetry-writing-workshop sites to fulfill those other purposes. ...what draws me to poetry is finding a particular sentiment that moves me, that I can relate to, and that stirs feelings in my heart and soul. I care nothing for meter or rhyme or technique, though I admit that they can be used well and with lovely effect.
I so agree. I won't say that the 'beauty of the dance' isn't subliminally effected, at least somewhat, through the meter/rhyme/technique, thereby facilitating the stirring of feelings in our heart and soul. Yet, the concepts, even awkwardly expressed, are what do it, as well. So much has occurred on these levels here, that never would have, had the writers [yourself included, of course] held themselves to such [an impossibly] high standard of "world-class poet," at this juncture. I am grateful for those who have shared their writings. Tears, rapturous tears, anger, laughter, tenderness, sorrow, so many things that make us human have been prompted through their words, and have allowed us to share, and see, and feel, and know ~ clearly ~ that we are not alone. Like you, for me, that's what matters most.
Love,
Elizabeth
I can't believe what you've actually done for me, either, with your synchroncity
. You've brought forward the very thread I wanted, to find the name of the Portugese poet, whom I thought of when I saw the book that I bought last night, Sonnets From The Portuguese by Elizabeth Barrett Browning. Now, I can write his name in the front of the book. I wasn't looking forward to the search, and now, it's miraculously done . Did you do me this huge favour on purpose ? I've just written it in, "Fernando Pessoa (Passionate Portuguese Poet)" ~ thank you !!!