leonardcohenforum.com

I've followed Lex Fridman for years and was not surprised that he's an admirer of LC. But, it was Susan Cain, the interviewee, who is a lifelong fan of Leonard. The whole interview is worth checking out. Thanks for posting this since there may be some folks here who haven't watched any of Lexs' interviews.

dar wrote: ↑Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:00 pm I've followed Lex Fridman for years and was not surprised that he's an admirer of LC. But, it was Susan Cain, the interviewee, who is a lifelong fan of Leonard. The whole interview is worth checking out. Thanks for posting this since there may be some folks here who haven't watched any of Lexs' interviews.

why don't nobody say nothing, only dar?

I don't know G. Maybe the folks here didn't take the time to watch the Lex clip? Perhaps 15 minutes of interesting conversation is too long for some? I watch Lex's podcast consistently and he has some really amazing guests. The interview with Rick Rubin is really worth watching. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_szemxPcTI
Of course, it's 2 hrs. Who's going to spend 2 hrs. watching that interview when they can spend the time on Facebook?

dar wrote: I don't know G. Maybe the folks here didn't take the time to watch the Lex clip? Perhaps 15 minutes of interesting conversation is too long for some?

it is true that people get bored easily these days. many movies and music videos contain multiple short clips in order to hold a viewer's attention.

apart from that, the reason i initially wrote was due to the alarming amount of times a person can use energy to post a message here that is subsequently ignored. even if a person's message does not include a question, in all probability they return to see if there has been any response - as would be only natural. yet time and time again i observe messages initiating zero activity, and it hurts for me to observe this, and i wonder how they must feel. it is this coldness that i can't understand, this 'couldn't-care-less' attitude, this culture of rejection and lack of empathy towards someone who is making an attempt to communicate.

myself, i am used to it - so for me it doesn't matter. i frequently post cohen-related drawings in a column further down in this forum - and more often than not people just look at them and then clear off without bothering to say a word. such an egoistic and frosty environment i have accepted for the sake of leonard's legacy, and am joyously surprised when a comment appears. i assume other contributors would be equally as happy to see their efforts generate a response; unfortunately an increasingly seldom occurence. we can only be glad that leonard did not live to experience this shameful deterioration in the human condition, especially amongst his fans.

I definitely have to shift my thinking when it comes to commenting on comments. I'm not a sociologist and can't really analyze why some interesting and enjoyable posts do not receive replies or acknowledgments. I know there were and probably still are many empathetic and lovely people here. I'm working on being non-judgmental / but my knee-jerk reaction is "Hell, just reply with a little knee-jerk...or emoticon."

that was a lovely response, dar - thank you. neither am i judgemental, i just have opinions sometimes. like you said, there are some decent people around; we just need to encourage their number to grow - not just climb on our tears and be silent.

a little goodwill and humour also goes a long way

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:02 am i just have opinions sometimes.

Many years ago I attended a seminar where the main speaker said something along the lines of "someone with an opinion without data, is just another person with an opinion." I must confess that it took me until long after the seminar was over to think that I should have asked "who do you trust to check the data?"
If the data is reliable, even a majority opinion may not be accurate.

Many on this Forum might suggest that LC is the finest song writer of the past 2 centuries and the best interpreter of his own songs, but I doubt that the rest of the world's population would agree.
Pity that all of "the others" are wrong!

Opinions are fine, just leave them as optional, not obligatory.

Alan

p.s. I love the title of your latest artwork, Geoffrey.
p.p.s. Allow your cursor to hover over the picture.

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Wed Jul 06, 2022 10:18 pm the reason i initially wrote was due to the alarming amount of times a person can use energy to post a message here that is subsequently ignored. even if a person's message does not include a question, in all probability they return to see if there has been any response - as would be only natural. yet time and time again i observe messages initiating zero activity, and it hurts for me to observe this, and i wonder how they must feel. it is this coldness that i can't understand, this 'couldn't-care-less' attitude, this culture of rejection and lack of empathy towards someone who is making an attempt to communicate.

Hi G,

I suppose there are two ways to look at non-responders. One is that the person is in a hurry (everyone seems to always be in a hurry), and is just checking to see if there is any "news" rather than reflect or interact. The other is that the person really has nothing to add or say, in which case perhaps not responding is the correct course.

Several of us participated on a long thread here in the music section for about five years, and over that time the thread accumulated 190,000 views. Yet, other than four or five regular contributors, almost no one else actually responded even though new posters were always encouraged to join in. To garner that many views there had to me a lot of people who regularly read the thread, so there must have been some perceived value. I just liken it to a newspaper or magazine where there are many subscribers, but only few of them ever write letters to the editor. As long as there are subscribers (or viewers), the exercise can be viewed as rewarding.

Due to your encouraging others to post, a while back there were several posts which may best be characterized as "A Day in the Life" posts, short vignettes of nondescript activities that filled "the moments that make up a dull day". I am curious if you and others found these interesting.

4

thank you, good people, for writing.

my biggest problem, if indeed i should have one, is that i tend to filter what a person says or writes. to an enquiring mind interested in psychological assessment, everyone's communication can be so educational and revealing that one is forced to limit one's response. for otherwise one would need to sit and use enormous amounts of time uncovering what is behind their choice of words or sentence structure. this can be properly accomplished on a professional level, in an office environment, but time to myself is precious, and in the confines of an unpaid internet bulletin board one is forced to discipline much of one's curiosity.

should one of my posts, against all odds, bring about a slew of responses (as has happened here and now), my intention is always to return and comment more fully on any points deserving attention. occasionally, and regretably, a discussion can move too quickly for me to give a reply of any real quality. this is an unsatisfactory situation, because i am bound to depend on the patience and tolerance of all participants.

tomorrow is friday, start of the weekend. shalom aleichem
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where is my gypsy wife?

AlanM wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 11:14 am

Geoffrey wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:02 am i just have opinions sometimes.

If the data is reliable, even a majority opinion may not be accurate.

Many on this Forum might suggest that LC is the finest song writer of the past 2 centuries and the best interpreter of his own songs, but I doubt that the rest of the world's population would agree.
Pity that all of "the others" are wrong!

Opinions are fine, just leave them as optional, not obligatory.

Alan

First; very interesting YouTube, I'll be watching more of his work, thank you for posting!

Second; check out this resource: https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/

Your feeling that "even a majority opinion may not be accurate" is absolutely correct. It's what's known as an Appeal to the Masses. It's easy to prove that a belief may have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with reality: For untold thousands upon thousands of years, every single person (except a few possible outliers) who thought about it at all, thought that the Earth was the center of the universe. Let's call it 99.999% of humanity at the time. All absolutely and completely wrong.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't search for truth; for cold-hard facts; only that it's much more difficult than one might think, and that it will be an ongoing process for as long as humanity manages to cling to existence. (So, what? One more week? Two?)

If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never take Philosophy of Logic courses is my advice!

AlanM wrote:Many on this Forum might suggest that LC is the finest song writer of the past 2 centuries and the best interpreter of his own songs, but I doubt that the rest of the world's population would agree.

thank you, alan. despite his contribution to the world of culture and arts, leonard did not achieve 'household name' status like elvis. most people have never heard of him. in a few years he will be completely forgotten, it will be as if he never existed. same for all of us, eventually even elvis. the reason i draw pictures is because i possess an uncontrollably creative nature, like people who carve ice sculptures in winter. there's no point in doing it really, especially for anyone preoccupied with permanency. my philosophy is: why not? you want it darker? well, you won't be disappointed. it's going to happen and it's not my fault.

thank you also to 'panjandrum' for a wonderfully sensible post.

panjandrum wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:43 pm check out this resource: https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/

If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never take Philosophy of Logic courses is my advice!

HI Panjandrum,
Many thanks for this link.
I haven't time to read it all now, but it looks fascinating.
I have bookmarked it to allow me to revisit it in the future (great song title).
I have a vague recollection of a process called reductio ad absurdum that was presented during my mathematics education many decades ago. I presume that would fit somewhere in this general category in proving something is correct by showing that the opposite concept is fallacious.

I do love a good argument, but I get bored by people who insist in holding patently incorrect views.
In such a situation, especially if my wife is present, often I will diplomatically stay silent, neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the fool, and if possible I will just depart.

I also love a good quote.
One attributed to Mark Twain (= Samuel L. Clemens):
"Never argue with an idiot. You’ll never convince the idiot that you’re correct, and bystanders won’t be able to tell who’s who."
And from that most prolific philosopher "Anonymous":
"I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong."

Best wishes,

Alan

AlanM wrote: ↑Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:06 am

panjandrum wrote: ↑Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:43 pm check out this resource: https://iep.utm.edu/fallacy/

If you want to be happy for the rest of your life, never take Philosophy of Logic courses is my advice!

I do love a good argument, but I get bored by people who insist in holding patently incorrect views.
In such a situation, especially if my wife is present, often I will diplomatically stay silent, neither agreeing nor disagreeing with the fool, and if possible I will just depart.

I also love a good quote.
One attributed to Mark Twain (= Samuel L. Clemens):
"Never argue with an idiot. You’ll never convince the idiot that you’re correct, and bystanders won’t be able to tell who’s who."
And from that most prolific philosopher "Anonymous":
"I could agree with you, but then we would both be wrong."

Best wishes,

Alan

I too love a good debate or argument, when we used to be able to have those among friends. Unfortunately the Cult of Ignorance and weaponized Unreality have destroyed that, at least here in the United States. Try pointing an anti-vaxxer to the information that the entire vaccine panic was started with a purposefully fraudulent study and has now been repeatedly debunked (link on Mayo Clinic: https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org/ ... k-debunked ). You will not be met with intelligent conversation or debate. You will not be met with a willingness to consider reality. You will be met, nearly every time, with anger. Often red-in-the-face vitriol. A spewing and ignorant defense of unreality. It's absolutely appalling.

It's one of the reasons I love Leonard so much; he was intelligent, brilliant, and absolutely unafraid to show it. He knew so much, and his works show that saw the totality of the human experience as an interconnected web between spiritualism/physicality/science/knowledge/art/humanity/despair/cruelty/joy/love/lust/more. "I'm Traveling Light;" I'm convinced both a reference to the philosophy of lightness AND a reference to the fact that every single one of our atoms was originally part of a star. "A Brief Elaboration of a Tube," is another lovely and oh-so-funny little nugget that makes me laugh every time.

I'll leave you with one other (paraphrased) quote: "You are entitled to your own opinions, but you are not entitled to your own facts." It's a vast oversimplification of course, because our best-known facts DO change over time (dinosaurs = birds) since a key necessary function of the scientific method is to slowly self-correct. It does, however, illustrate the point.