never-ending gallery

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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Geoffrey »

thank you for this message, lisa - and the info.

at the moment there is so much going on here that i am almost not online at all. 17 may celebrations, visitors from bergen and a 50-year jubilee at the local church where i worked - plus other things. hope to return soon :)
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by LisaLCFan »

Geoffrey wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 1:00 am…at the moment there is so much going on here that i am almost not online at all. hope to return soon
Have fun! :D
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AlanM
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by AlanM »

LisaLCFan wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 3:04 am
Geoffrey wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 1:00 am…at the moment there is so much going on here that i am almost not online at all. hope to return soon
Have fun! :D
What Lisa said!

I still check on y'all every day.
I'm not a big fan of instrumental music, so I don't feel able to comment on the current trend of this topic.
I think I have only listened to Tacoma Trailer a couple of times.

Stay well and stay happy,

Alan
Too much Leonard Cohen is never enough.
London 1972, Adelaide 1980, 1985, 2009
Sydney 2010; Adelaide 2010
Sydney 2013 X2; Melbourne 2013; Adelaide 2013
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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Geoffrey »

AlanM wrote:
>I still check on y'all every day. I'm not a big fan of instrumental music, so I don't feel able to comment on the current trend of this topic. I think I have only listened to Tacoma Trailer a couple of times.
----------------------
hei alan. always a nice surprise when you appear.

to announce that you are not a fan of instrumental music is actually a big comment. a lot of people prefer to have lyrics included, and that should be respected - it doesn't make them peasants. it just means that language is an important vehicle of communication. do the lyrics need to be in english? can you become emotional when listening to pavarotti singing 'nessun dorma', for example? do you have a personal opinion upon precisely why you are not a fan of instrumental music? you have opened up a fascinating area concerning preferences in human behaviour :)

until being reunited with my father at the age of fifteen the only music i heard was gaelic folk songs in rural wales while attending an occasional 'ceilidh' held by farmers. imagine the cultural shock of going from such a rustic existence to an exciting life of energy and culture on the south coast of england. it was through my father that i developed a liking for classical music. my favourites were tchaikovski's '1812' and rossini's 'william tell', but beethoven's 'fifth' and 'pathétique' were also often on the turntable - plus many others.

i didn't care too much for 'tacoma trailer' either. it is flat, boring, uninspired elevator music like mantovani or james last - totally awful. i put it in the same category as 'jazz police': unworthy of being on a leonard cohen album.

thank you, alan. stay well and happy, you too - and please write some more :)
its4inthemorning
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by its4inthemorning »

My father loved most kinds of music, but especially classical, so by the time I left home I had heard many great and famous compositions. After college when I truly went out on my own, I told him how much I enjoyed the classical music he played on our phonograph (later stereo), and asked if he could suggest a core of albums that I should purchase. He did better than provide a list, that Christmas he gave me about thirty albums. I still have those albums, and in fact, they are the only records I still play on my old turntable, everything else having been converted to CDs. Beethoven's symphonies were, of course, included. Sibelius was also represented, The Moldau is one of my favorite classical compositions.

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by LisaLCFan »

AlanM wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 11:44 am ...I'm not a big fan of instrumental music, so I don't feel able to comment on the current trend of this topic.
I think I have only listened to Tacoma Trailer a couple of times...
I would never put "Tacoma Trailer" into the same category as Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.
its4inthemorning wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 5:43 pm ...Sibelius was also represented, The Moldau is one of my favorite classical compositions.
The Moldau is, indeed, a very lovely piece, but it was composed by Smetana. Incidentally, Smetana, like Beethoven, became deaf, and he wrote "The Moldau/Vlatava" after he lost his hearing.

Sibelius is wonderful -- his Symphony #5 is one of my top favourites!
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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Geoffrey »

LisaLCFan wrote:
>I would never put "Tacoma Trailer" into the same category as Beethoven's Ninth Symphony.
----------------------------------
so funny :lol: ha ha ha !!!
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AlanM
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by AlanM »

Clarification and other housework:
My intention regarding mentioning Tacoma Trailer was as an indication that I do not listen to everything that Leonard recorded just because it is from Leonard. Jazz Police has not made it onto my play list either, Geoffrey. Neither has most of the Death of a Ladies Man album, other than the title track which I have manipulated to bring Leonard's voice more front and centre.
I wrote that I was not a big fan of instrumental music, and I do listen to Minute Prologue and Improvisation, but mainly because I can imagine lyrics in my mind.
There are other instrumental tracks on my phone, such as Albatross by Fleetwood Mac and quite a few tracks by The Shadows. I particularly like their album Songs of Today, again possibly because I can imagine the lyrics. {Is there an audio version of "visualise"?} Stranger on the Shore by Acker Bilk is in there too.
Regarding vocals and lyrics, no I do not enjoy foreign language songs, with the exception of Non, Je Ne Regret Rien by Edith Piaf. However I also listen to her English version.
My wife used to be a fan of Julio Iglesias and bought many of his albums. The only songs I liked, and still do, are sung in English. I regret being mono-lingual, but it's too late to change now (think "Trombones" becoming "Sunset Strip" later this year). Many times I have said "he could be singing his shopping list for all I know".
I have long held the opinion that most people prefer the music that was popular during their formative years (mid 60s to early 70s for me). In Britain, where I grew up (if I ever did) there was a group called The Walker Brothers (who weren't brothers at all). They sang many "big ballads" and were very popular at the time. After they split, Scott Walker (actually Scott Engel, an American, not a Brit) embarked on a solo career. He sang English translations of several Jacques Brel songs and I was hooked. I still listen to The Walker Brothers Story double album and the Scott 1,2,3,4 albums quite a lot these days. Scott had a beautiful voice, but his choice of music got quite weird as time went by. Amsterdam is probably my favourite, just marginally above the other Brel songs.
Anyhow, what I'm getting round to is that this Brel/Walker exposure primed me beautifully to really "get" Leonard Cohen when I first heard him. I know he rarely recorded songs by other composers, but I would have loved to hear him interpret Brel.
So - Brel, Cohen = story songs. I admit that many popular songs could be described as such, but I appreciate the depth of emotion expressed and created by Brel and Cohen.
There are many other story songs that are high on my list of non-Leonard favourites. To name a few:
Piano Man - Billy Joel; Where Do You Go To My Lovely - Peter Sarstedt; Streets of London - Ralph McTell; Kentucky Rain - Elvis Presley; The Highwayman - The Highwaymen, etc. I can expand further if you like.

I'm running out of steam for now,
Best wishes,

Alan
Too much Leonard Cohen is never enough.
London 1972, Adelaide 1980, 1985, 2009
Sydney 2010; Adelaide 2010
Sydney 2013 X2; Melbourne 2013; Adelaide 2013
its4inthemorning
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by its4inthemorning »

LisaLCFan wrote: Mon May 20, 2024 7:18 pm
The Moldau is, indeed, a very lovely piece, but it was composed by Smetana. Incidentally, Smetana, like Beethoven, became deaf, and he wrote "The Moldau/Vlatava" after he lost his hearing.

Sibelius is wonderful -- his Symphony #5 is one of my top favourites!
Absolutely correct Lisa. checked the old (circa 1980) album, and now see--after all these years--that it is an album containing works of Sibelius including "Finlandia" AND works by Smetana including "The Moldau," performed by the Berlin Philharmonic. Nice to be able to correct a 40+ year misconception.

Alan, a "story song" you may remember is "The Rock Island Line" by Lonnie Donegal (and his skiffle group).

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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Geoffrey
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by Geoffrey »

AlanM wrote:
>I have long held the opinion that most people prefer the music that was popular during their formative years . . .
---------------------------------------------
quite so, alan, and a bit of a shame - because such limitations cause one to miss a whole universe of creativity. it's ok though; having friends whose preferences are stuck in a bygone decade can serve to make one feel superior. at the moment i am enthralled by billie eilish's new concept album, but to most of those around me it means nothing. it is plato's 'allegory of the cave' in action. i can fully accept and appreciate someone not liking something, but to negate everything except that which one associates with one's 'formative years' can cause suspicion.
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by LisaLCFan »

Geoffrey wrote: Thu May 23, 2024 2:07 am ...having friends whose preferences are stuck in a bygone decade can serve to make one feel superior...
:lol: I believe that you're being serious! From what I've read, according to standard psychological interpretations, a need to feel superior over others is an interesting personality trait, generally thought to reflect low self-esteem and a sense of one's own inferiority: such a person is often more inclined to compare themselves to others, as if everything is a competition (including the kinds of things that one enjoys, such as music), always trying to find ways in which they are "better" than other people in order to reduce their own feelings of inferiority and boost their self-esteem.

Not everybody is like that (I am not, anyway!): some people are actually very happy and secure with who and how they are, and they have no need to compare themselves to others, negatively or positively, instead simply recognising and accepting themselves and others as they are, acknowledging that not everybody is the same, and having no need (nor even the inclination) to rate people as being more or less superior/inferior.

Mind you, that does not make the latter people superior to those with low self-esteem who have a need to feel superior -- it is simply a very different type of personality. There is considerable evidence to suggest that people do not have very much control over strong personality traits like that -- it's mostly just the way they are! -- just as people do not have much control over the kinds of music they like: personal preferences are very strongly tied to personality traits -- how we are and who we are strongly influences what we enjoy (that is not just an opinion, but a statement supported by research and evidence).

AlanM wrote: Tue May 21, 2024 11:27 am ...I have long held the opinion that most people prefer the music that was popular during their formative years ...
That is not my personal experience, in fact, quite the contrary! Thus, I would be more inclined to say that "some people prefer...", rather than "most", because I am not sure that your assertion is as broadly applicable as you suggest. However, there is good reason to believe, as noted above, that one's personality plays a large role in the type of music they prefer, and one's personality will also determine if they are more-or-less inclined to change or to stay the same throughout their life, with regards to musical preferences and many other things, thus, if one compares other aspects of a person's life to their musical preferences, it is likely that an interesting pattern will emerge.
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AlanM
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by AlanM »

To Geoffrey, Lisa, 4 et al,
Sorry, I don't know how to do a double quote without starting a new post.

1. Geoffrey wrote: ↑Thu May 23, 2024 9:07 am
...having friends whose preferences are stuck in a bygone decade can serve to make one feel superior...
:lol: I believe that you're being serious!
Geoffrey, I don't believe that you are being serious. I think this is a "stir" to create a response and it has worked.
I have listened to some younger artists, some of whom I like (Hayley Westenra, Gin Wigmore) but others I just couldn't "get" such as Sinead O'Connor and Amy Whitehouse. The fact that the latter 2 are dead has nothing to do with it. None of them appear to be men either!

Unlike 4, my parents never played music at home during my formative years, I don't think either of them was interested. At that time, BBC was the only source of radio broadcasts and was certainly not aimed at the Baby Boomer generation. Thank goodness for Radio Luxemburg! Back in the day it was the main source of "popular" music, but had to be listened to when parents were not using the radio. Other music exposure came from friends who bought records and shared them, and eventually television started having shows including music aimed at the younger generation. Thus, while I was aware that Classical Music existed, I was not exposed to it in the way that 4 was, so I never really appreciated it.
A few years ago a friend persuaded me to go to a concert that was a tribute to Dave Brubeck. He raved over it, but for me I was reminded of the quote (I forget by whom) "Lots of notes, but not much of a tune". BTW, I'm not a fan of jazz either.

Just because an art form is old, doesn't mean it should be discarded. The majority of Classical music is older than the majority of popular music, and it is still enjoyed by many people. Music can be enjoyed numerous times, as can literature, visual arts, etc., so I defend my preference for the music of my formative years, supplemented by some more recent compositions.

2. AlanM wrote: ↑Tue May 21, 2024 6:27 pm
...I have long held the opinion that most people prefer the music that was popular during their formative years ...
That is not my personal experience, in fact, quite the contrary! Thus, I would be more inclined to say that "some people prefer...", rather than "most", because I am not sure that your assertion is as broadly applicable as you suggest.

Some/many years ago I attended a business management seminar where the take away message was "Someone with an opinion and no data is just another person with an opinion." I should have asked "who checks the data?" but I didn't think of it until later.
Anyhow, an opinion is thus that, a personal observation, that may be proven right or wrong at some point, but then again it may be proven wrong or right at a later stage. Things change. I accept your comment that one's personality plays a large role in they type of music they prefer. As their personality develops during their life, their preferences in music and other art forms may change too.
Regarding the quotes above, we have both expressed an opinion and I certainly respect yours.
What one person express as a fact may be totally incorrect as assessed by another. e.g. It doesn't matter how many people say that The Earth is flat. While their little bit of it may appear flat, the scientific truth is that this planet on which we live is an oblate spheroid.

I hope we all can consider this as a discussion rather than an argument.

Best wishes and keep expressing opinions,

Alan

p.s. Lisa I'm not suggesting that you are saying that The Earth is flat. Also see next post, it is a genuine request for your opinion, and that of anyone else who may wish to contribute.
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AlanM
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by AlanM »

Classical Music.

I, and I presume many others, have multiple versions of many Leonard Cohen songs - original recordings, official and audience concert versions, studio outtakes, etc. I can and do enjoy all these versions and I consider them to be interestingly different enough to enjoy multiple times.

Does the same apply to Classical music, or is it more restricted in permitted variations?
There are many recordings of Beethoven's 9th symphony (fact, not an opinion :wink: ).
I presume that differences occur as a result of which orchestra was recorded, their personnel at the time, the conductor, acoustics of the venue, recording technology, etc.
Is an observed difference something to be rejoiced about, or does it trigger feelings of dismay?
Are they all different enough in a positive way that a fan would possess many recorded versions and attend many public performances?

Alan
Too much Leonard Cohen is never enough.
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by LisaLCFan »

AlanM wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:38 am ...I hope we all can consider this as a discussion rather than an argument....
Absolutely! It's all good! 8)

AlanM wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:54 am ...I, and I presume many others, have multiple versions of many Leonard Cohen songs - original recordings, official and audience concert versions, studio outtakes, etc. I can and do enjoy all these versions and I consider them to be interestingly different enough to enjoy multiple times.

Does the same apply to Classical music...

Yes! Some of us who love classical music (perhaps many) very much enjoy a variety of different versions of any given piece, performed by different musicians, orchestras, conductors, etc.. Some of the differences are staggering, some are subtle, and one version may be loved by some and disliked by others. Every musician brings something unique to their performances, a sound and a style that makes their performances a bit different from others, certain elements of the music that they may emphasise more or less, which is perhaps more obvious with conductors and soloists (although orchestras and smaller ensembles can also have their own collective and distinctive sound and style).

And, of course, new recordings are always being made and new live performances are always happening, so that a person can continue to discover and enjoy new versions of pieces pretty much indefinitely! I have, on many occasions, heard a performance of a well-known (to me) piece, either on a recording or at a live performance, which has been a revelation, as if hearing the piece for the first time, for the musician(s) managed to breathe such life into it, bringing out nuances and details that made it sound fresh and new! That is always a thrilling experience!

In fact, I find classical music to be thrilling, period! It captures absolutely every emotion and human experience, plus so much more, in such amazing worlds of sound, so full of beauty and awe and mystery and so many other things for which there are no adequate words to describe or explain. I never get tired of listening to classical music (mostly instrumental for me), for I am completely enraptured by it -- I find it to be the most wonderful, enriching, beautiful, exciting and captivating product of human creativity -- it is more than just hearing music, it's an experience that transforms and transports me, for it is endlessly interesting and fascinating and compelling! I can't imagine life without classical music -- I practically live and breathe it! :D
Last edited by LisaLCFan on Fri May 24, 2024 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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LisaLCFan
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Re: never-ending gallery

Post by LisaLCFan »

AlanM wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:38 am ...I don't know how to do a double quote without starting a new post...
When you have your "Post a Reply" box open, just scroll down to the post you want to quote, and click on the little square brown button in the top right corner with a " in it, and the entire post will appear as a quote in the reply box. If you only want to quote a portion of a post, click and highlight the bit you want to quote first, then click on the little square quote button, and just that portion will appear in the reply box (I add the ellipses when I do that). You can do this numerous times, adding as many quotes as you like, which will appear individually (as they appear in my posts), but note that you can only scroll down through the last page or so worth of posts with the reply box open. If you want to add an additional quote from a page further back (or from another thread), you can always open a new window, start a new reply with the quote you want, and then cut and paste it to your first reply box.
AlanM wrote: Fri May 24, 2024 4:38 am ...Just because an art form is old, doesn't mean it should be discarded...
I am very happy to hear that. ;-)
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