Yup, according to twitter Sligo CoCo won n Lissadell lost. Nothing on mainstream media yet. Seems such a shame after the considerable time n investment put in by Cassidy & Walshe, on their understanding that no public rights of way existed, and especially after decades of neglect n little interest by the government r local authorities. They have done an outstanding job restoring this historic house and creating a beautiful tourist attraction with accompanying spin offs to the local economy.
But you can understand why the local authorities just can't allow wealthy members of society to buy large estates n block rights of way to local amenities ( like the beach at lissadell) that have been used by locals n the public for years. I never knew who was right, Sligo coco argued the existence of rights of way, Lissadel said there were none n the courts have decided. I can see both points of view but do feel sorry for Lissadell, they did the state a great service by saving the house, it's a pity it got so acrimonious and a shame that a happy compromise couldn't be reached. Will have to await full ruling in tomorrows papers to get the details
Sligo-Help for newbies.
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Grainnemhaoil
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
Oh God, The Trees Are Excellent.
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carlowmike
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
“If the law supposes that,” said Mr. Bumble,… “the law is a ass—a idiot. If that’s the eye of the law, the law is a bachelor; and the worst I wish the law is that his eye may be opened by experience—by experience.”
(Oliver Twist - Charles Dickens).
Thank you Grainnemhaoil, good point but I suppose many of us feel we owe some loyality to the Walsh and Cassidy families for the Leonard Cohen Concerts held there --here is a summary of today's ruling by Justice McMahon
.
The High Court has ruled that public rights of way exist across the grounds of historic Lissadell House in Co Sligo after a court case lasting 58 days and costing up to €6m.
Barristers, Constance Cassidy and Edward Walsh who bought the estate in 2003, took proceedings against Sligo County Council seeking a declaration that four routes through the estate were not subject to any public rights of way.
However, Mr Justice Bryan McMahon ruled that there was evidence that members of the public had used the routes for generations, on foot, on cycles and in motor vehicles and that they had never been told to leave or told that the estate was private property.
He ruled that rights of way were available to the public across the estate during daylight hours.
And he urged the public to exercise their rights in a way sensitive to the rights of Ms Cassidy and Mr Walsh.
The couple bought the estate in 2003 for almost €4m and spent €9.5m restoring the house and the gardens.
However, they said they could not continue to operate it as a tourist amenity if rights of way existed.
This afternoon, they said the gates of the estate would be opened today but their dream for Lissadell House was over.
Edward Walsh said Lissadell was a wonderful place and they tried to do something useful but he said obviously, they had not succeeded.
From the point of view of maintenance, security and insurance he did not see how it could be done and he said hopefully the State would step in.
A spokesman for Sligo County Council said the council was very pleased with the outcome. He said the proceedings were not initiated by the Council and were very gratified by the very comprehensive result in their favour.
He said the Council hoped Lissadell would continue to play a very important part in the Sligo area and wished Mr Walsh and Ms Cassidy all the best.
(Oliver Twist - Charles Dickens).
Grainnemhaoil wrote : But you can understand why the local authorities just can't allow wealthy members of society to buy large estates n block rights of way to local amenities ( like the beach at lissadell) that have been used by locals n the public for years.
Thank you Grainnemhaoil, good point but I suppose many of us feel we owe some loyality to the Walsh and Cassidy families for the Leonard Cohen Concerts held there --here is a summary of today's ruling by Justice McMahon
.The High Court has ruled that public rights of way exist across the grounds of historic Lissadell House in Co Sligo after a court case lasting 58 days and costing up to €6m.
Barristers, Constance Cassidy and Edward Walsh who bought the estate in 2003, took proceedings against Sligo County Council seeking a declaration that four routes through the estate were not subject to any public rights of way.
However, Mr Justice Bryan McMahon ruled that there was evidence that members of the public had used the routes for generations, on foot, on cycles and in motor vehicles and that they had never been told to leave or told that the estate was private property.
He ruled that rights of way were available to the public across the estate during daylight hours.
And he urged the public to exercise their rights in a way sensitive to the rights of Ms Cassidy and Mr Walsh.
The couple bought the estate in 2003 for almost €4m and spent €9.5m restoring the house and the gardens.
However, they said they could not continue to operate it as a tourist amenity if rights of way existed.
This afternoon, they said the gates of the estate would be opened today but their dream for Lissadell House was over.
Edward Walsh said Lissadell was a wonderful place and they tried to do something useful but he said obviously, they had not succeeded.
From the point of view of maintenance, security and insurance he did not see how it could be done and he said hopefully the State would step in.
A spokesman for Sligo County Council said the council was very pleased with the outcome. He said the proceedings were not initiated by the Council and were very gratified by the very comprehensive result in their favour.
He said the Council hoped Lissadell would continue to play a very important part in the Sligo area and wished Mr Walsh and Ms Cassidy all the best.
Last edited by carlowmike on Tue Dec 21, 2010 11:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
2008~Dublin x 3,- Amsterdam,- London,- Berlin,- London x 2,. 2009~Dublin x 3,- Barcelona, Sept.- New York, Chelsea Hotel Plaque Dedication and MSG Concert,- Las Vegas. 2010~Sligo x 2, Las Vegas x 1.]2012, Ghent, Berlin, Dublin, Los Angeles, New York.
Like You Would Do For One You Love
Like You Would Do For One You Love
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musicmania
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"
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musicmania
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
We must have posted at the same time Mick as your post wasn't there when I went to post the link.
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"
Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
I hope fans don't sing "Passing Through" when walking through Lissadell! It might not go down well.
2xDublin 2008, 2xDublin 2009, Berlin, Beacon Theatre 2009, Cardiff, Birmingham, 2xSligo 2010, 3 x Dublin 2012
"You held on to me like I was a crucifix, as we went kneeling through the dark"
"You held on to me like I was a crucifix, as we went kneeling through the dark"
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carlowmike
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
Dream is over for Lissadell owners.
Tuesday December 21 2010
THE future of one of Ireland's most historic country homes as a tourist attraction was hanging in the balance last night after a High Court ruling confirmed the existence of public rights of way.
Barristers Constance Cassidy and Edward Walsh initiated proceedings against Sligo County Council after the local authority voted to preserve four rights of way through the 410-acre Lissadell Estate, the ancestral home of Countess Markievicz.
The owners, who now face crippling legal costs that could reach €6m, are not ruling out a Supreme Court appeal.
They began their action claiming that opening the routes to the public would mean they could not operate the estate as a tourist attraction.
Speaking briefly outside the High Court yesterday, they declared their dream was over.
The couple purchased the property for €4m in 2003 and spent a further €9.5m restoring the house and gardens.
In a lengthy judgment, which took more than two-and-a-half hours to read, Mr Justice Bryan McMahon found that the rights of way had existed for many years by virtue of acquiescence by previous owners.
Had previous owners not wanted the public in the estate, they could have erected 'keep out' or 'private property' signs, the judge said.
The judge concluded that long use by the public inferred that the rights of way existed but only during daylight hours. He also urged the public to exercise their rights in a way that was "sensitive to the owners".
Complaints
The judge rejected an application from the plaintiffs for a stay on his declaration pending a possible appeal to the Supreme Court.
In a statement issued afterwards, Sligo County Council said its over-riding concern had been "to safeguard the public interest".
"Complaints were made by members of the public that what they perceived as 'public rights of way' were being interfered with.
"The four roadways at the centre of this dispute have been used extensively by the public for well over 100 years. They were also used to access the magnificent south-facing beach at the location known as 'the Waterwall'.
"The effect of a judgment in favour of the owners of Lissadell would have been to remove the right of the public to use these roads and to remove their rights to access the beach at the Waterwall," said the statement.
The statement added that the council believed the issue could have been resolved locally by negotiation. "The council did everything it reasonably could to achieve such a settlement, including an offer of mediation, but all its approaches were rejected out of hand."
Speaking briefly outside the court afterwards, an emotional Eddie Walsh confirmed that the gates would reopen later yesterday afternoon.
"We want to try to get clarification with the county council as to exactly what vehicles are allowed to go through during daytime hours.
"We tried to do something that we thought was good. Our dream is over.
"We tried to do something useful. When we came there, it was sad, it was neglected, it was declining.
"We thought we had arrested that. We thought we had moved forward and obviously we haven't succeeded in what we believe Lissadell needed to be from the perspective of security, from the perspective of insurance, from the perspective of maintenance.
"I don't see how it could be done and I don't think we are the people to do it. The State should now step in," he said.
Jim Meehan, a long-time resident, welcomed the decision.
"The owners of Lissadell House are our neighbours and we wish nothing for them but the best," he said.
- Anita Guidera and Tim Healy
Irish Independent
Tuesday December 21 2010
THE future of one of Ireland's most historic country homes as a tourist attraction was hanging in the balance last night after a High Court ruling confirmed the existence of public rights of way.
Barristers Constance Cassidy and Edward Walsh initiated proceedings against Sligo County Council after the local authority voted to preserve four rights of way through the 410-acre Lissadell Estate, the ancestral home of Countess Markievicz.
The owners, who now face crippling legal costs that could reach €6m, are not ruling out a Supreme Court appeal.
They began their action claiming that opening the routes to the public would mean they could not operate the estate as a tourist attraction.
Speaking briefly outside the High Court yesterday, they declared their dream was over.
The couple purchased the property for €4m in 2003 and spent a further €9.5m restoring the house and gardens.
In a lengthy judgment, which took more than two-and-a-half hours to read, Mr Justice Bryan McMahon found that the rights of way had existed for many years by virtue of acquiescence by previous owners.
Had previous owners not wanted the public in the estate, they could have erected 'keep out' or 'private property' signs, the judge said.
The judge concluded that long use by the public inferred that the rights of way existed but only during daylight hours. He also urged the public to exercise their rights in a way that was "sensitive to the owners".
Complaints
The judge rejected an application from the plaintiffs for a stay on his declaration pending a possible appeal to the Supreme Court.
In a statement issued afterwards, Sligo County Council said its over-riding concern had been "to safeguard the public interest".
"Complaints were made by members of the public that what they perceived as 'public rights of way' were being interfered with.
"The four roadways at the centre of this dispute have been used extensively by the public for well over 100 years. They were also used to access the magnificent south-facing beach at the location known as 'the Waterwall'.
"The effect of a judgment in favour of the owners of Lissadell would have been to remove the right of the public to use these roads and to remove their rights to access the beach at the Waterwall," said the statement.
The statement added that the council believed the issue could have been resolved locally by negotiation. "The council did everything it reasonably could to achieve such a settlement, including an offer of mediation, but all its approaches were rejected out of hand."
Speaking briefly outside the court afterwards, an emotional Eddie Walsh confirmed that the gates would reopen later yesterday afternoon.
"We want to try to get clarification with the county council as to exactly what vehicles are allowed to go through during daytime hours.
"We tried to do something that we thought was good. Our dream is over.
"We tried to do something useful. When we came there, it was sad, it was neglected, it was declining.
"We thought we had arrested that. We thought we had moved forward and obviously we haven't succeeded in what we believe Lissadell needed to be from the perspective of security, from the perspective of insurance, from the perspective of maintenance.
"I don't see how it could be done and I don't think we are the people to do it. The State should now step in," he said.
Jim Meehan, a long-time resident, welcomed the decision.
"The owners of Lissadell House are our neighbours and we wish nothing for them but the best," he said.
- Anita Guidera and Tim Healy
Irish Independent
2008~Dublin x 3,- Amsterdam,- London,- Berlin,- London x 2,. 2009~Dublin x 3,- Barcelona, Sept.- New York, Chelsea Hotel Plaque Dedication and MSG Concert,- Las Vegas. 2010~Sligo x 2, Las Vegas x 1.]2012, Ghent, Berlin, Dublin, Los Angeles, New York.
Like You Would Do For One You Love
Like You Would Do For One You Love
Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
Oh no, this is simply too sad. From spending an incredible amount of their personal fortune to renew Lissadell and create beautiful grounds and gardens....and renovate the interior of the house to make it their home, I would imagine this will be a severe reversal of fortune for Walsh/Cassidy having to now pay court costs. So now the gates are open. Daylight hours only. But what happens next? Will Sligo County decide to build a highway directly to the beach area? Large paved parking lots? Perhaps a few fast food places catering to the people wandering the estate and beach? Are motorbikes now allowed? It would indeed be a sad day if the owners need to relinquish ownership of Lissadell because of finances, and it slowly reverts to the way it was 20 years ago.
I came to love this area last summer and will keep watch on its future. Thanks for sharing the articles.
Diana
I came to love this area last summer and will keep watch on its future. Thanks for sharing the articles.
Diana
Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
Did any of you get the DVD of Sligo yet? A thread was opened way back, but I have heard no more about it.
2xDublin 2008, 2xDublin 2009, Berlin, Beacon Theatre 2009, Cardiff, Birmingham, 2xSligo 2010, 3 x Dublin 2012
"You held on to me like I was a crucifix, as we went kneeling through the dark"
"You held on to me like I was a crucifix, as we went kneeling through the dark"
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carlowmike
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
I have not heard anything about this DVD but I am interestedby jdhayes » Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:59 pm
Did any of you get the DVD of Sligo yet? A thread was opened way back, but I have heard no more about it.
.2008~Dublin x 3,- Amsterdam,- London,- Berlin,- London x 2,. 2009~Dublin x 3,- Barcelona, Sept.- New York, Chelsea Hotel Plaque Dedication and MSG Concert,- Las Vegas. 2010~Sligo x 2, Las Vegas x 1.]2012, Ghent, Berlin, Dublin, Los Angeles, New York.
Like You Would Do For One You Love
Like You Would Do For One You Love
Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
A DVD of Sligo would be great , I did get audio CD but the sound quality was very bad. Has someone recorded the Las Vegas concerts on DVD, that would be worth having.
Dublin 22nd July 2009. Sligo 31st July and 1st August 2010.
I dreamed about you, baby
It was just the other night.
I dreamed about you, baby
It was just the other night.
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musicmania
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
I'd LOVE a DVD of Sligo and of the second concert in Vegas but if there is any I've never heard of them! I also have the CD's from Lissadell and I agree the quality is very poor. However there is a brilliant download of the second Las Vegas concert on Dr Heck of a Guy's website! The quality is excellent!jeney wrote:A DVD of Sligo would be great , I did get audio CD but the sound quality was very bad. Has someone recorded the Las Vegas concerts on DVD, that would be worth having.
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"
Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
I'd also love a DVD of Sligo. I agree Gwen the sound on the audio isn't great.
There was someone videoing at the front of stage both nights, but who knows when or if we ever get to see it!
I'm sure some of you'll post if it becomes available?
Happy New Year!
Anne
There was someone videoing at the front of stage both nights, but who knows when or if we ever get to see it!
I'm sure some of you'll post if it becomes available?
Happy New Year!
Anne
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carlowmike
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- Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:53 pm
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
In 2010 the Irish music scene lost two good friends, Derek Nally of Drogheda in July and Larry Roddy of Ballymore- Eustace in November, two fellow music and venue promoters.
Derek and Larry were on the side of the good guys of the music business in Ireland, professional, genuine and honest, they were passionate about music, both of them were in their 50s when they died.
I worked with them intermittently since the 1970s and will miss their invaluable advice and cooperation.
When it was announced that Leonard Cohen was to play Kilmainham in 2008, in our enthusisam not to miss the opportunity, we ended up with 20 front row tickets covering the 3 Concerts, ( not very knowledgeable about the LC Forum the acquisition was followed by great efforts trying to pass the tickets to genuine fans
).
Every year at this time I think of the first four lines of a poem by Minnie Haskins,
and which was quoted by King George V1 in his Christmas Day message of 1939.
I post it here to share with those of you who visit this thread and as Leonard himself said in Kilmainham "at the risk of offending any atheists out there" here are the lines :
I said to the man who stood at the gate of the year,
"Give me a light, that I may tread safely into the unknown!"
And he replied,
"Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the hand of God.
That shall be brighter than the brightest light and safer than a known way."
Derek and Larry were on the side of the good guys of the music business in Ireland, professional, genuine and honest, they were passionate about music, both of them were in their 50s when they died.
I worked with them intermittently since the 1970s and will miss their invaluable advice and cooperation.
When it was announced that Leonard Cohen was to play Kilmainham in 2008, in our enthusisam not to miss the opportunity, we ended up with 20 front row tickets covering the 3 Concerts, ( not very knowledgeable about the LC Forum the acquisition was followed by great efforts trying to pass the tickets to genuine fans
).Every year at this time I think of the first four lines of a poem by Minnie Haskins,
and which was quoted by King George V1 in his Christmas Day message of 1939.
I post it here to share with those of you who visit this thread and as Leonard himself said in Kilmainham "at the risk of offending any atheists out there" here are the lines
:I said to the man who stood at the gate of the year,
"Give me a light, that I may tread safely into the unknown!"
And he replied,
"Go out into the darkness and put your hand into the hand of God.
That shall be brighter than the brightest light and safer than a known way."
2008~Dublin x 3,- Amsterdam,- London,- Berlin,- London x 2,. 2009~Dublin x 3,- Barcelona, Sept.- New York, Chelsea Hotel Plaque Dedication and MSG Concert,- Las Vegas. 2010~Sligo x 2, Las Vegas x 1.]2012, Ghent, Berlin, Dublin, Los Angeles, New York.
Like You Would Do For One You Love
Like You Would Do For One You Love
Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
Dear Mick,
I am so sorry for the losses you experienced of friends this past year....they were far too young. Thank you for your New Year wishes! This is what I posted on Facebook, and I think it will hold true on this thread also....
"May God grant you always...
A sunbeam to warm you,
A moonbeam to charm you,
A sheltering angel, so nothing can harm you."
Many blessings...and much love to you and all my wonderful Irish friends!
Diana xoxoxoxo
I am so sorry for the losses you experienced of friends this past year....they were far too young. Thank you for your New Year wishes! This is what I posted on Facebook, and I think it will hold true on this thread also....
"May God grant you always...
A sunbeam to warm you,
A moonbeam to charm you,
A sheltering angel, so nothing can harm you."
Many blessings...and much love to you and all my wonderful Irish friends!
Diana xoxoxoxo
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musicmania
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Re: Sligo-Help for newbies.
Lovely words Mick and Diana. Too young indeed Mick. Life can be cruel.
I was checking something on teletext with the RTE News Review on in the background when I heard Leonard's Lissadell concerts mentioned but missed the clip so I went online and checked the RTE player where shows are available online and found the broadcast and recorded it with my phone. It is only a 13 second clip but I thought it was a nice touch to be included in the highlights of the year by our national broadcaster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5yTdlh1JHw
I was checking something on teletext with the RTE News Review on in the background when I heard Leonard's Lissadell concerts mentioned but missed the clip so I went online and checked the RTE player where shows are available online and found the broadcast and recorded it with my phone. It is only a 13 second clip but I thought it was a nice touch to be included in the highlights of the year by our national broadcaster.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5yTdlh1JHw
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"
Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/
"I did my best, it wasn't much"