leonardcohenforum.com

Diane,

I thank Doron again for starting this thread as I think it's given several of us an opportunity to share thoughts. However, I want to thank YOU for taking me to the point of seeing "Forum 2008" not only from your eyes, but the eyes of all those who had been part of the newsgroup and the early Forum, which of course, dozens of us who joined in 2008 could not appreciate. We simply started popping in, happy to be here, and thinking life was good! From your posting I became aware of an entirely different perspective and placed myself in your "shoes". We must have been overwhelming, and at this late date, I apologize.

However, the Forum has wide-reaching arms, and is open to diversity....from the entire world. There is only one requirement. There is a home here for all of us.

Diana

Diane, Diana and Everyone else,

I don’t have any particularly new thought to add at the moment, but I wanted to thank you all for your contributions and for many fine points.

And Mat, your quote was on the spot, as ever. Thanks.

A wonderful discussion indeed, but what operative conclusions can we draw? Other than a better understanding of others' points of view, has anyone resolved to behave differently on the forum as a result of this discussion?

I tend to agree with Doron. How could the forum possibly still have the same amount of activity as it used to before the advent of Facebook? Some have said the the forum has quieted down because the concerts are over. Facebooking started while the concerts were still occurring. If there was no Facebook, everyone's total energy would still be directed here - seems logical to me.

Doron, just because there is not a varied or sometimes large amount of participation in the topics that analyze LC's works, does not mean that members are not following them. Your latest one on 'The Night Comes On', has my fingertips itching to type a response, but I have this great fear of not being able to live up to the standards that so many of you (yourself, Matt, tinedoes, Diane, holydove,.....sorry for leaving some of you out) set. I look forward to all these 'academic' discussions. I follow them avidly and learn so much from all of you. It would be a sad day if these discussions did not take place on a Leonard Cohen Forum.

As to the 'sickly sweet' and welcoming posts... I followed the forum for years before joining during the 'frenzy'. When I finally found the guts to make my first post after the Hamilton concert, I did so because of the sheer joy I experienced after seeing LC perform once again. I wanted to share some of that here. I did not expect any reply. Then there was a response to my post by an 'old-timer', Joe Way. In following the forum, I did get the sense that this was a very personal and 'closed' community. To have Joe respond to my post was such a thrill for me. 'Only a newbie would know how good that feels.' I have never forgotten that kindness and make an effort to make other newbies feel welcome. Don't know if I am one of those who come across as 'sickly sweet'. If I do, it's because I try to live by, 'do unto others.....'

brightnow wrote:A wonderful discussion indeed, but what operative conclusions can we draw? Other than a better understanding of others' points of view, has anyone resolved to behave differently on the forum as a result of this discussion?

Facebook is here to stay, forum members divide their time between both and their live are enriched in different ways by both of them. All I know is that I feel privileged to be a member of this forum. Without the forum, people would not be able to friend each other on Facebook for those 'personal' interactions - something for everyone.

Will I act differently? Nah - if I'm happy, I will show it, if I'm grateful for someone's post, I'll thank them, if someone is new, I'll continue to try to welcome them. I like it here and wish everyone felt that way.

Kindest regards,
Mary

There is clealry no apology required, Diana. It's water under the bridge anyhow. I had no idea until this thread, that there was a perception among newer members that older members felt we were 'better' than you. That is so not the case, and what an alarming thought!

As Cate or was it Doron said, this forum is very human, really, fights included.

MaryB wrote:...I have this great fear of not being able to live up to the standards that so many of you (yourself, Matt, tinedoes, Diane, holydove,.....sorry for leaving some of you out) set....

I don't have much at all to add to academic discussions about LC compared to those mentioned plus many other forum members, other than I have an interest in Zen Buddhism, and not a particulalry academic one at that (but then it isn't an academic pursuit). However, those who are the mainstays of a particular discussion do very much welcome input, I know, so if you want to join in I'd say just take a risk:-)

Avi, like Mary, I doubt whether I will act differently either (although this discussion has been "acting differently"). I think the "better understanding" part is the important.

Thanks people. Have a good weekend, Happy Easter to all.

Mary,

I’ll tell you what I’ve always been telling everyone: please don’t hesitate to participate! If the discussion interests you, and you feel you have something to contribute to it, just go ahead and do so. Nobody here has a direct line to LC’s thoughts; we are all interpreting. During the long discussion of Book of Mercy I did my best to encourage as many people as possible to participate, and was sometime successful. Also: there are no exclusive clubs on the Forum; its very name signifies openness: the public square where everyone meets and talks. Some people have been saying on this current thread that they felt the “old-timers” had a closed circle of their own, or something to that effect; I don’t believe it’s true. Of course, when you are new to a place you might feel excluded for a while, but most people can integrate soon enough and become part of the fabric. It may not be easy, but it is certainly possible.

By the way, I’m really sorry I didn’t get to meet you personally in Las Vegas. There was so much running around that I’ve somehow missed you (and some others I hoped to meet). I hope there will be another chance.

Many thanks and all the best,
Doron

Diane wrote:Anne, every time I see your avatar, I wonder what's on fire in that blue bottle...

Well, Diane, if you are speaking literally, the "fire" in the bottle is a sunlit rose that fell from a little bouquet I left for Leonard Cohen at the stage door of Holy Heart Theatre way back in May 2008....
...but if you are speaking metaphorically, perhaps you should check me out on Facebook...

I think it's not Forum vs Facebook, but simply three-years long tour exhausted many fans (Forum members) and they returned back to their private environment to listen LC as they did before. On the other hand, the Forum is not the same place anymore, instead of long and detailed discussions about poetry and Leonard's rare contribution and related news, the Forum sunk under daily news, releases, shows, and hundreds of new fans, and now it's very hard to get any real info or good article among all writing that's going on, so older fans probably took step back (as I did). Also, big part of it is written before the whole Cohen's oeuvre was read and listened to, and much of it is chit-chat of fanish admiration and writings, what was rare before. On the Facebook, I can be in daily contact (with jokes, clips, doodles, reports on daily culture and art stuff we read, visit, see...) with dozen or so old members, people I was meeting on events, Hydra and later on some concerts... I have to say, if there ain't one Ken on Facebook everyday, my life would be more boring. Facebook, unlike Forum, does give you a social platform for exchange. On the other side, Forum is still the best utility for discussions and stuff, but it happens so rarely (and if does, there's almost no feedback), as the tour took all our capacities, and now there's obviously some kind of hiatus.

Tom,

Great to see you back here. I believe you are right on most points, but you’ve also proven my point that Facebook is siphoning away a lot of energy; or, as others also argued, it gives some options that the Forum doesn’t. Anyhow, I still hope that like us, others will gradually drift back and resume discussions of various topics, and that there will be more meaningful feedback. We can’t force anybody, but if we create interesting discussions perhaps more people will be drawn in…

Yes, to add for the Facebook - many fans, crew and band members, and almost everybody I met on shows I went to are on Facebook, so it somehow started to be very important place as - unlike Forum - keeps you in touch. That's why it's called social network, unlike Forum or blog (who has blog nowadays?). But as I say - for the future discussions and serious work, Forum is still the only place, while websites have to move to web 2.0 and beyond. But everything's slow these days, 5 months since the tour and we have our lives to live:)

*

I think I must be one of the few people here who does not use Facebook! Partly because I don't want to risk another addiction as I probably spend too much time at my computer already at the expense of normal life and housework. There is room for both but I still feel this is my main source of information. I feel safe and comfortable on this forum and over the years have made many friends.

I'm sorry that some newer members have felt we were less enthusiastic, but to tell the truth many of us have already discussed and debated all things Cohen in the years before the tour, so newer members are only now catching up and discovering what we found earlier. We have been content to quietly enjoy the recent tour and to travel and meet other fans and for myself, to attend my first ever Cohen concerts from 2008 onwards as I was a latecomer myself to his work.

Maybe there are some little cliques of older members, but that is hardly surprising when we have been here so long. Over the years many of us have taken the opportunity to meet up and spend time together, attending small events or concerts, holidays together on Hydra etc. Inevitably there are stories and jokes between us that newcomers will not understand as they were not there. It is however something which keeps our memories alive. Our walking weekend experiences are one of those. There were I noticed other threads which started between new members who formed friendships following shared experiences at Sligo, or at Red Rocks and other places.

The Forum has expanded so much with more new sections and subsections, and numerous threads that it is difficult to keep up and read all new posts the way we used to and those of us with busy lives have to reluctantly skip a lot due to the sheer size of the thing! I don't think I post any less than I did before the tour, I was never very wordy anyway! We are very grateful to Jarkko and the moderators for keeping this site going and allowing so many more people to get together and enjoy this space. I'm glad that as admirers of Leonard Cohen we are no long regarded as as a minority who are bit strange and miserable, but are now a bigger force .

Margaret

Margaret, I reserve the right to be strange and miserable:-(

Donalagata, thank you for the observations you have made in contribution to this thread!

Great reply Anne:-) I may have no choice but to join facebook, as even making arrangements for work-related activities is becoming increasingly difficult because "everyone" uses it. But I dread having 200 friends to keep up with, as I prefer to be left to be strange and miserable in peace, so I will resist as long as possible .

Sorry if this has already been said, but it is a long thread and I can't read every post. There is still a substantial number of people (in the UK at least, as far as I can see) who are Facebook resistant. And so for them, the Forum is the only place.

Diane wrote: I prefer to be left to be strange and miserable in peace, so I will resist as long as possible .

Oh, ok, it's been said before...