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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 1:47 am
by linda_lakeside
Hi there Paula, Tom, Whomever,
I'm wondering if it should be the objective of this site to put these people on eBay out of business? Should it not just be a matter of trading between those within the site? It seems to me, that putting people out of business is nobody's business
. Would it not be enough to have a corner where those that are in this site, or find their way here can trade and let eBay take care of itself? For now, at least, it sounds like a big project that should start small just to see where the flaws lay (or lie, as it were). It sounds like there's enough work right here and now to keep Tom busy for a while. I hope my thoughts made it to the page effectively.
Linda.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:11 am
by margaret
The 2 dvd's Paula noted as currently for sale on Ebay (from a seller only registered very recently on 27th January!) are part of the collection of Stephen diamondsinthemine It looks to me like one or more of his customers could now be copying and selling these on, along with some others. They may of course have gotten them from a different source. I've noticed lots of sellers now putting up several audio or video cds or dvds every week or 2 . It's quite a money making business now.
I've been giving cdr's to friends or swapping with other people here for a year or two, just being glad to circulate them to those who appreciate them. It's now making me rather suspicious of strangers who may then go on to mass produce them as a profit-making exercise.
I recently got the Boston 1993 concert on VCD from stephen in exchange for another item. The quality is quite good for an audience film, after a shakey start with the amateur camera work.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:28 am
by linda_lakeside
Hi Margaret,
Yes, I see the problem. By opening trading, this site is, of course, going to attract those very types. Yet, there has to be some way around it. I'm not pushing for a trading corner - although it would be nice. Dammit. Well, that last statement was straight to the point , at least.
Linda.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:00 am
by Paula
I think it might be best if I keep my opinions to myself after this post.
I have benefitted from others generosity and I feel very strongly about the dealers ripping off fans. It has become a huge money making excercise for some people and it really pisses me off. The basic product has cost them nothing and they are using what they have been given as money making machines.
custard_pie69 the seller has made over £100 on selling Cohen CD's, he is learning to play guitar and he likes ice cream, He cheats on the Game Boy and Playstation, he wants 100% feed back on Ebay and wants to learn magic like David Blaine. He also buys This message has been classified as spam and will be deleted by the moderators.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 3:55 am
by linda_lakeside
I think most of us can say that it is a piss-off when good deeds are turned into profit making ventures for people with no scruples. I honestly didn't think it was that much of a money maker. I don't go to eBay much and haven't checked out the DVDs, videos, etc. It was a nice thought, a good idea, but maybe not so practical. In a perfect world....? In Canada it is legal to download from the Internet, so maybe it isn't such a big business here. Maybe, the only solution is to keep the trading/sharing between friends. Otherwise, dirty deeds get done dirt cheap...(I stole that line from AC/DC-I confess).
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:42 am
by tomsakic
Jarkko, Paula, Linda, Margaret
I think we simply must ignore eBay; we can make our corner here and that's all, so people doesn't need to look around thru google (I made some good trades in beggining using keywords "trading + leonard + cohen + bootleg + recordings" etc). Otherwise, the first intention is getting lost.
As for people who could trade and then sell it - well, that's out of our influence and obviously there are some people who traded with some of us in the line and then used the items for sales (like Hannover 1979 show or Austin City Limits DVD). We can only be very careful (and never believe to total strangers). But that's nothing new in trading.
Here's the first draft.
The purpose of this corner is to help fan sin trading trading of unreleased live material (audio or video) between fans. It is NOT for trading copies of official albums. Here you can sell, buy or trade Leonard's records, books, posters and other items of interest. If you have any extra item(s) you want to sell or trade, or if you are looking for a rarity, or you're willing to trade with your CDs of Leonard's free circulating shows, then this is the place for you.
There are some needful rules:
1. When you're listing your items, it's best to open new topic with clear headline title. Otherwise, you can negotiate in already active topics.
2. The agreement is made via PMs (private messages) or email for which we please you to provide.
3. In trading it's all about honesty. This forum cannot take any responsibility for lost or undelivered items. But we do please you that you give your full, real name while you offer or seek a trade.
4. If you find that your trade is finished, please state that in the topic. (Close your trade!)
5. Please note that we do NOT accept any offering to sell private concert videos or audio recordings, bootlegs or recorded TV or radio programs, because it is illegal to manufacture, distribute or sell such recordings. Such offerings will be immediatelly removed!
6. Only trading of unreleased live material (audio, video) will be accepted, not selling of any items (with the exception of original albums, books etc. as long as the seller is selling his/her own, new or used originals).
7. We will remove any posts with:
a) a sales announcement of other than original material
b) offers to sell, buy or trade copies of commercially released material
8. How do you trade?
a) Trading is exchanging of free circulating recordings.
b) You always trade 1 CDR for another CDR, or 1 DVDR for another DVDR. Exceptions are rare items, or changing the different media (books for DVDRs, CDRs for DVDRs). In such cases it's up to you. Please note that we are not sure it's the trading of video material according to its duration (counting per minute) actually the right attitude.
c) Most collectors don't like if you write with pen on the media you're about to send. So, it's best to attach a little piece of paper with the title to CDR.
d) You always send CDRs without jewl-cases – they will broke. The usual way is to pack CDRs alone in paper or plastic/card wallet.
e) The best way for sending the items is in bubble-letter which will prevent the possible breaking.
f) Always burn on branded discs with labels, and always check does the mdeia play in the equipment.
g) Please state the quality and format of your material.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:44 am
by tomsakic
More nice directions from constantsorrow's trading page:
Burn data & audio discs at low speed (8X).
Please don't write anything on the discs. Include a little piece of paper into the sleeve to identify the disc. One sleeve per disc.
Keep a good communication throughout the trade to prevent confusion and disappointment.
We'll replace any defective disc and would appreciate the same in return.
I'd like to proceed with this corner, Jarkko. Let me/us know. There's no need for big changes (or advertising), only some instructions, short introduction (especially about B&P for begginers). Then some people can open threads and will see if this communication works.
Btw, I thought that diamondsinthemine put his won DVDs on eBay for 0.99 to piss off the big sellers. Or did I get it wrong. The shows aren't so rare, I only heard that Boston exists, but I have Munich on tape couple of years.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 2:18 pm
by jarkko
This is what we are doing next, before going any further. I will discuss this with L's management. The Files & The Forum are independent fan sites, but as we know we have very close connection with the man and his office, and I really don't want to start anything that would irritate him or even be harmful in some way.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:02 pm
by tomsakic
Oh, I agree. Although this is forum; there already were some trades done, thru posts and then pms/emails.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:12 pm
by Scooby Doo
Paula,
I think your getting too hung up on E-Bay.
Make the trade place here a strictly members only process where potential members are controlled and vetted prior.
This will stop the feed of material onto E-Bay and other auction web sites.
Demand for material currently advertised will soon dry up.
SD
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:35 pm
by Paula
Scooby you could be right I have deleted Ebay from my mind! Tom Sakic has a much more expert opinion on these matters and if he thinks it could work - and it is a really good idea - and Jarkko gets the OK then that will be good.
Jarkko I hope my rantings haven't affected your decision. I was just looking at the negative and not the positive.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:47 pm
by linda_lakeside
Hi Paula,
In order to make a wise decision in a potentially tricky situation, looking at the negative can only help make the positive more well, positive.
Linda.
Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:41 pm
by Paula
Sorry couldn't resist. In my current role as Miss Marple. Custard_pie69 has now made his/her feedback private on Ebay. Could it be someone on this board who doesn't like anyone to know they are learning guitar
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:43 am
by linda_lakeside
Hi Miss Marple,
I know not of which you speak, however the topic interests me so. Therefore, I feel it necessary to watch this topic (like the notification says). I wish I could reply but I can't, so I'll continue to watch this topic.
Linda.
Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 1:31 am
by jarkko
Hi guys, we now have Leonard's approval, so let's go ahead. This will be only for Forum members, which means that we don't advertise it elsewhere. I will give moderator rights to Tom.