leonardcohenforum.com

Also,

Ticketmaster is a company base out of California...so the New York laws wouldn't apply...or is online transactions in a nether zone?

Sue

There actually is a racket involving this ticket scam called ticketmaster. I found it via the Phish concerts going on sale sometime later for their shows across the country (one stop is near me in Mansfield, MA)

Anyway, these tickets *HAVE NOT EVEN GONE ON SALE YET* yet ticketsnow (a subsidiary of ticketbastard), has tickets on sale for $900 a piece on their scalp site. Before they go on sale to anyone, not presale, not the phish official presale, no tickets released - so there is no way ordinary folks have these yet. it's a venue that doesn't have season ticket holders either, so that's not the answer.

what ticketbastard does is take some of the best seats in the house and they sell them through several ticket scalping sites for crazy prices.
...as if they weren't making enough with their 30% mark up "convenience" fees

I really sincerely hope that the execs of ticketmaster end up in horrible car accidents and are dismembered or decapitated.

The music business fights back against digital downloaders. Musicians have discovered that the money is now in live performance, they can't sell CDs or recorded music anymore. So at 75, Leonard must put on a business suit and a hat, and go out to work like most of the rest of us.
The problem is the economic system called Capitalism-- To each according to how little we can get away with giving them, from each as much as we can squeeze out of them.
Even Barack Obama won't be able to do much about this.

Ticketsnow is licensed under the state of Illinois.

"Where can I check references for TicketsNow?
TicketsNow is a founding member of the National Association of Ticket Brokers (NATB), which was organized to promote the highest level of ethics in the secondary ticketing marketplace. We are fully bonded and licensed by the office of the Illinois Secretary of State (License #04-021)."

Notice that they are the founding member of NATB. Interesting that Illinois requires that the ticket broker be a member of such organization so naturally, they just formed their own organization.

For individual sellers, Ticketnow prints the same warning that other resale sites do:

"5. Which states have ticket re-sale laws?
It is your responsibility to comply with any and all applicable laws. Listed below are the various U.S. states and Canadian provinces that currently possess ticket regulations. Please check to see if your state currently is regulated by any of the following laws. These laws are updated as of January 1, 2008. Though we try to update these laws in timely manner, it is your responsibility to be aware of the laws that apply to them and their location."

For ticket brokers, it says:

"Why are the tickets on your site listed above face value?
Licensed ticket brokers and individual sellers generally sell their tickets at prices above face value. This price is known as the ticket's "market value.

Tickets are obtained from a variety of sources including season ticket holders and individuals who have extra tickets for events. To obtain these high-demand tickets, brokers pay a premium, or a price often well above face value. They then sell these tickets at market value. The market value price for a ticket is determined by many factors including seat location, supply and demand, date and location of event, etc. As an individual, you can also post tickets for sale on TicketsNow.com.

Our ultimate goal is to provide our customers with the greatest selection of event tickets at competitive prices."

and

"Is it illegal to sell tickets for more than face value?
No. It does generally require a license and set of standards to follow. In Illinois, where TicketsNow is licensed, it also requires a $100,000 cash bond for consumer protection to be held either privately or through an association. We are licensed to sell in 98% of the markets and will notify you if we cannot. All transactions that we handle meet all state and local provisions."

My issue at this point is this: Unlike other ticket resellers, TicketsNow doesn't list the state of the seller or any contact info for the seller, so the public has no way to check whether the seller is in compliance with their state laws and since TicketsNow makes it the seller's responsibility, they have provided a haven for these sellers.

Yesterday, I wrote the following nasty note to TicketsNow about a listing:
"How do you justify being a home for scalpers? This ticket is listed at $250. It is priced nearly 400% above that. I can't check to see what state the seller is selling from so I cannot verify that the seller is in compliance with their state's laws. You tell sellers it is there responsibility but you don't seem to provide any check on this, even for the public. You are worse than ebay.

Leonard Cohen
Beacon Theatre
2/19/2009
8:00 PM
Section: CENTER ORCH
Row: C

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quantity: 1
Each:$947.00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Subtotal:1 x $947.00
Service Charge:1 x $142.05
Shipping:$14.95
Discount:- $0.00
Gift Card:$0.00
Tax: What's This$0.00

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Order Total:$1,104.00"

That listing is gone today. Maybe it sold. Maybe they removed it. But on the possibility that they removed it, I suggest if you are angry, complain to TicketsNow at:
http://www.ticketsnow.com/ContactUs/Sal ... etsNow.com

Furthermore, if you are interested, here is the Illinois law governing TicketsNow. At first glance, they seem to be in compliance.
http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/il ... alping+Act.

However, I don't think that should stop anyone from complaining to the Secretary of State in Illinois about TicketsNow practices:
https://www.ilsos.gov/ContactFormsWeb/s ... ntact.html

Also, here is the contact info for AEG, the promoters of Leonard's concerts. Perhaps if they receive enough complaints about TicketsNow, they at least might make an inquiry.

http://www.goldenvoice.com/contact/

In addition to the issue I raised above about the public's inability to monitor whether sellers are in compliance with their state laws, there is the issue of market price. How can a ticket be at market price when it is priced so far above comparable tickets on the same site?

Marie,

Thank you so much for all your time-consuming research into this problem and for all the information you are providing to us. Hopefully all (and it seems there are many) who are upset will contact the sources in Illinois and also AEG. This is truly a frustrating situation for Leonard's fans who could not get tickets.....and for fans of other concerts who run into the same problems. It seems to happen time and time again, and I am sure there are some who are frantic enough for a ticket that they will pay the absurd prices.

Thanks again for all your assistance!

I'm afraid selling above the primary listed price might be legal, as long as the subsidiary pays taxes on the income.
Ticket prices are regulated by demand only, Ticketmaster can set any price as long as there are customers willing to buy the tickets. It's possible to see the inflated prices as totally legal, they are just part of multitier selling system, something like a large scale bidding: first the best seats are offered at highest prices, if there are no clients, the price is lowered.
It's even possible this happens with the blessing of the tour management.....

Thus the info about 'a special concert for fans' is justified -- fans were given opportunity to buy tickets at the lowest listed price.
Life is hard and brutal....

I'm afraid selling above the primary listed price might be legal, as long as the subsidiary pays taxes on the income.

It is clearly NOT legal in every state. The states were listed in this thread where there are restrictions. The point is that the public cannot monitor this aspect if the state of the seller is not revealed, therefore the public is not protected. Furthermore, it is true that after the lowest priced tickets are sold off on TicketsNow, there might be a market for those obscenely priced tickets. But we aren't there yet. There are plenty of lower, more reasonably priced tickets on TicketsNow. Therefore, listing at obscenely high prices at this point does not reflect market value. One thing that listing at these obscenely high prices does is give the impression that after all the lower priced tickets are sold, this is what a ticket will be worth. Therefore, BUY NOW! It may be TicketsNow posting as a false incentive to get people buying. These obscenely high priced tickets do not reflect market value now, not when there are so many lower priced tickets available.

Megan2c2b wrote:Therefore, listing at obscenely high prices at this point does not reflect market value. One thing that listing at these obscenely high prices does is give the impression that after all the lower priced tickets are sold, this is what a ticket will be worth.

I think at this point nobody knows what is the fair market price for US concerts, and AEG/Ticketmaster are just trying to find it out.
We'll see what happens, it's interesting...
I hope to see LC in California, and at a reasonable price

mirka
--

margaret wrote:

mirka wrote:

woolwork wrote: [...]
their company Ticketsnow - (a ticketmaster company) is selling third row tix for over $1,2000 each...

I think it's quite possible Ticketmaster returns tickets unsold by Ticketsnow to the regular pool, and sells them a couple of days before the concert at the nominal price. This would explain better seats showing up for sale at Ticketmaster 1-2 weeks before the concert.

Mirka and Lightning are right. Ticketmaster appeared to skim off the best tickets at previous British and European concerts then tried selling them at inflated prices through their other companies. A lot were then released at the last minute at face value.

The only way way to beat this is to ignore the hype, don't pay over the odds, be patient if you can so you don't feed Ticketmasters greed. They have to try to sell unsold tickets before the concert.
And it looks like there will be other concerts coming up.

We booked tickets to see Phantom of the Opera on that night in NYC since we couldn't get Cohen tickets. I will be one very unhappy boy if this happens. LOL. Oh, well. Next time!

I read a few of the posts here and I DEFINITELY relate to the disgust about the overpriced scalpers making a killing on Cohen.

Just wanted to say that, I was able to get one ticket on Ticketmaster, and I don't know how, cuz I NEVER get this lucky with these things. But I'm a true Cohen fan....so just know that at least a few of us were able to pay the regular prices and will enjoy this show HOW it should be enjoyed. I'll report back after the show.

How do these bad ticket sellers always manage to get there before the fans even though the fans on the internet/ticket gaency at the exact time they go on sale. This does not seem possible but strangely it is.

I queried a few of them and asked that question. The most plausible answer I got from one was that the theatre (Beacon in this case) sells them a block of tickets before they go on sale to the public. The theatre makes more money, the scalper makes more money and everybody is happy but the ticket buyer. And, in this free market economy, the ticket is worth whatever they can get for it. This is legal in New York and other places.
It's noted on the ticketmaster website to check back shortly before the event--more tickets may go on sale--that's if the scalpers can't sell them.

There's got to be a better way. Maybe a mail order account. You know we are lucky to see a show in a small venue.

This sounds familiar! Look what happened to Springsteen fans:

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2009/02 ... litch.html