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Beneath the poignant, touching, and "outrageous" humour......the truth.
The vulnerabilities that lie within one's poetry.
Perfect analogies, Peter and Janem.
I've always found updating and rewrites of "old" material a bit unsettling.
In this context, rather a bit of denial of one's earlier identity.
A rejection of the [inner?] child, so to speak.

>>>>"His poem meaning anything and everything or nothing, is so true of everything most of the time." - Linda


Clarity of thought and expression and crystal-clear communication is also important. I concede it is not always possible when making something literarily attractive but still....


p.s. Hmm.....to argue against my own comment above, perhaps a poem is like a woman. It is interesting when it is mysterious.

My poems are soft green
My poems are flaming crimson
My poems are like the wounded faun
Seeking refuge in the forest.

- Jose Marti

Kush,
I'm sorry but I find your comparison rather offensive. I won't go on about it, but were you being serious?

I'm sorry you find it offensive and I'm even more sorry that folks on this board always seem to get bothered or offended by one thing or other. Whether it's other people or their poetry or their comparisons.
Take it easy.


p.s. Raffzahn...this version is for you and any others who found the original offensive
"Hmm.....to argue against my own comment above, perhaps a poem is like a man. It is interesting when it is mysterious."

I apologize that as a man I would find a mysterious woman interesting. I also apologize that I was thinking only of myself and not of others (e.g., woman who find mysterious men interesting, men who find mysterious men interesting etc etc.). I also apologize to any who find comparison of a mammalian life-form to a poem as offensive.

Kush wrote:>>>>"
p.s. Hmm.....to argue against my own comment above, perhaps a poem is like a woman. It is interesting when it is mysterious.

My poems are soft green
My poems are flaming crimson
My poems are like the wounded faun
Seeking refuge in the forest.

- Jose Marti

Oh I like this stanza. Now you're on the right track, Kush.
-Janem
ps Although really, I thought the "No Middleman" poem was very lucid. Rumi-esque, it is clear enough to anyone on a spiritual path. I think maybe people just don't like to admit that this hip guy with the cool music does religion?

Kush wrote:I apologize that as a man I would find a mysterious woman interesting. I also apologize that I was thinking only of myself and not of others (e.g., woman who find mysterious men interesting, men who find mysterious men interesting etc etc.). I also apologize to any who find comparison of a mammalian life-form to a poem as offensive.

LOL

Dear Kush,

As a woman with solidgold feminist credentials, I hereby absolve you.

I thought it was the most golden thing you said, actually. Plus, the beauty of the stanza you quoted permits you to be forgiven.

You may laminate this and show it to anyone who questions you at the next feminist border patrol station.

-Janem

I am not sure what raffzahn found offensive. Perhaps she was not being serious. Do you feel you are treading on eggshells Kush. I found it quite genteel.

In fact the aurua I get from you is one of a genteel person, either that or a Hells Angel

Thank you for your kind words, Paula & Janem.


>>>> .....Rumi-esque, it is clear enough to anyone on a spiritual path.

Janem...therein lies the crux of the problem. I would hardly consider myself a spiritual person. Does not imply that I am materialistic but definetely, absolutely not spiritual or religious.
In fact, it has dawned on me for sometime now that my philosophy/perspective of life is quite, quite divergent from LC's although there are a few points where they meet. I retain my appreciation for his supreme skills as a poet and songwriter but the magic and thrill has somewhat faded.

I am sorry Kush, about that sense that some of the magic has faded for you.
But also...well, why not remain open to the stuff in the songs (& poems, etc.) that you feel out of wavelength with right now, who knows what connections could open as life unfolds?

As all things grow and change, magic of art that we appreciate deeply maybe evolves, doesnt go away but ebbs and flows, taking new forms?
-Janem

It doesnt matter....I am quite content with my ever changing musical tastes. Keeps the music fresh. 'Tis music I love, not this artiste or that.
At one time or other I have deeply appreciated all of LC's albums. I shall await his next album of new songs !

Now come on everyone! Everybody enjoys a laugh and a joke but I this is going too far. My remark was definitely not of the militant feminist persuasion. Personally I am fed up of being told that I have to be mysterious to be interesting and so perhaps this was a little vitriolic of me and of course my own opinion and I don't think that un-mysterious men are more interesting than those mysterious types. But it means a different thing. Women have always had to be mysterious, since the Greeks and before. I said I won't go on about it and won't. Still, it is interesting that no one else agrees. Ah well, I'll go and shave my head then...

You mean you WERE being serious!!!!

If you are not militant I would hate to see what you consider militant, I have scoured Kush's remarks and there is nothing remotely offensive in them. I have never in my life been told I need to be mysterious to be interesting.

I asked you at the outset if you had a sense of humour and you said yes. Did you mean a by-pass?

Ooops have I made another enemy

Yes I was being serious - though I shall now consider joining a relevant revolutionary organisation since my old-fashioned views seem so marginalistic in the light of everyone's outrage at my offence. Don't you people know that taking offence is the new black? Perhaps I am too easily offended, I don't know. Perhaps I wasn't really offended enough to have made my note to that effect on the board; ought to have used a few ironic emoticons, was being deliberately provocative or just desparate for attention. In any case, in future I'll try not to give or take offence, or at least not in writing.
I'll take the reference to my humour-bypass as a compliment, Paula, for that would mean I am finally out of puberty. Whatever happened to those Manchester jokes, while we're on the subject of humour?

Hi raffzahn

I have taken to using Emoticons because I was getting villified and it was to give an impression of light-heartedness because everyone else seems to do it - here comes another one now

I will send you some Mancunian jokes on Monday they are at work, but please if they offend you don't send me hate mail - oops this one just slipped in

I will have to PM them to you as you do not have an email icon. I hope they don't offend you but I struggle to understand what offends and what doesn't. Seriously I could in no way shape or form understand what you took offence at so far as Kush's post is concerned but something hit a nerve.

I hope we do not fall into a trap of not responding to things with honesty for fear of offending people. I am sure in my wake I have left people gnashing their teeth and pulling their hair out at my "offensive" comments.

Anyway I will PM you a couple of jokes on Monday - Shalom

raffzahn wrote:But it means a different thing. Women have always had to be mysterious, since the Greeks and before. I said I won't go on about it and won't. Still, it is interesting that no one else agrees. Ah well, I'll go and shave my head then...

Actually, Raffzahn, when you put it that way ("Women have always had to be mysterious since the Greeks...") then I sympathize with your view. Yea, and agree, even. This wasn't a point that came across to me from yr earlier posting.

(But then when the person guilty of it is a mysterious sexy-voiced Leonard Cohen, geez, I don't know, Raffzahn...the rigor of my stance waivers...)
-Janem
ps Btw, I am not one of the school who takes the term "militant feminist" to refer to a loathsome breed. Not sayin' you are one, just if you *were,* i wouldn't hold it against you. Promise.