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Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:53 pm
by crystal
Caren wrote:@LHHUNTER and anne_alexander.
I have said all that needed to be said. No use in trying to bait me into an argument here, or via PM or elsewhere.
Very well said, Caren. Applause from my side.
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:57 pm
by lizzytysh
Good heavens, anne alexander... how long were you a "fan" and "in love" to begin with?
This is certainly an incredibly unfortunate and costly thing that's happened, but the charges that you and some others throw at Leonard are totally uncalled-for and unfair. Performers have managers for a reason. They basically show up when and where they're directed.
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 7:10 pm
by Nefelly
None of us lnows to what extent LC is involved in the concert scheduling. I would think minimal to nothing. I feel the blame hovers between AEG and his Management. Somebody should have raised the red flag that if LC tours during the month of Septemrer please avoid x dates. 0r any other month with a significant Religious Holy Day. A friend who knew LC back in the 70's and 80's said he told her he did NOT know precisely where he was going when on tour. Yes maybe he knew it was Europe, UK or USA but specifics were not required by him from the onset which to me makes sense. He has said he gets sent around the word like a postcard and I think that is just what happens. 0ther people are employed to attend to the finer details. I trhink you will find other major artists also have no input into their tour schedule. LC will get the flack for all of this from us who are supposed to be so madly keen to keep on seeing him again and again ..... I don't understand it . There will come a day, hopefully a long way ahead, when we would all give our everything to be anticipating a Cohen Tour yet here we are today criticising him .......
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:35 pm
by lizzytysh
Exactly, Nefelly... and those were the exact days we had lived with for so long... never dreaming he would ever tour again.
From my perspective, it's insane to blame him for this.
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 9:57 pm
by friscogrl
In the Bhagavad Vita King Arjuna says he does not want to go into battle because he does not believe in killing another human being no matter what. He feels it goes against his spiritual and moral beliefs. lord Krishna explains to him that he has to forgo these beliefs and go into battle. He tells Arjuna he cannot act in a cowardly manner and has to fight and put the interest of his countrymen before self.
I do not know who made the decision to change these concerts dates but seeing as a similar mistake had been made last year with the Verona date whoever does set up the concert schedule should have been mindful of this and not make the same mistake. And when it did become apparent that indeed the same thing happened again it seems they should have left the dates alone. The schedule change seemed to benefit a few and and cause inconvenience for a lot of others.
Marsha
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:02 pm
by anne alexander
crystal wrote:Caren wrote:@LHHUNTER and anne_alexander.
I have said all that needed to be said. No use in trying to bait me into an argument here, or via PM or elsewhere.
Very well said, Caren. Applause from my side.
Um, what exactly are you applauding. Is Leonard above reproach???
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:09 pm
by anne alexander
lizzytysh wrote:Good heavens, anne alexander... how long were you a "fan" and "in love" to begin with?
This is certainly an incredibly unfortunate and costly thing that's happened, but the charges that you and some others throw at Leonard are totally uncalled-for and unfair. Performers have managers for a reason. They basically show up when and where they're directed.
The fact is I loved and respected Cohen since I was introduced to him about ten years ago. He is responsible to people he has made a contract with. Fair enough if he wants to cancel but he is obliged to compensate people for losses incurred. Unless it is because he is ill or a family member is ill. He should have stated what days he was not available before the dates were set. Also, he DOES charge too much. You know in your heart it is true. Or do you think Cohen is beyond reproach? Surely you expect any contracts you make to be honoured.
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:03 pm
by confetti
Obviously if I had planned to fly to another country to see Leonard Cohen and he had cancelled or postponed the concert and I was not able to attend, I would be annoyed and very upset. However, travelling to the concert is my choice, my hotel booking and flights are not the fault or the responsibility of the artist. The concert ticket is going to be refunded and this is all the promoter and ticket agency are obliged to do.
I understand the risks of going to another country to see an artist, and have done this many times, in fact I am in Italy at the minute looking forward to seeing Leonard on Tuesday, if he were to cancel I would be gutted, but hey that's life, there are a heck of a lot worse things that can happen to me, and anyway I am having a great time just now, listening to Diana Krall outside my hotel window.
x
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:23 am
by anne alexander
Poolie wrote:Absolutely dismayed to learn of the change of dates for the Leeds and London dates, especially after the clash with Jewish religious dates had been pointed out by the likes of Jackie T on 23rd May, the very day the UK dates were announced.
After a similar reason for a change of date in Verona last year, this lack of communication between AEG and LC's management is completely unacceptable. We all love LC's concerts for many reasons, not least the warmth, the respect and consideration he and the band show to the audience so sincerely. It would appear that AEG/LC's management don't show a similar regard for their punters, who, as Zimmy66 says, are only pawns in their game. Ok, sometimes changes have to be made, but this was avoidable.
It's ironic that the tours started back in 2008 because of a pension crisis. I would imagine that a great many of Leonard's devoted followers are
themselves pensioners. While I have lost nothing like Zimmy66's £400 or non-refundable flights like Caren and, I'm sure many others, £60 non-refundable hotel booking is a big waste for an ordinary pensioner.
I keep hearing Leonard's words," I know some of you have undergone financial and geographical inconvenience." Leonard, there hasn't been a concert since 2009 that didn't involve those two inconveniences.
I can't imagine that I'm the only one who delayed and delayed booking their holidays until the UK dates were announced. 5th September, Leeds? Right, we'll book our holidays for immediately after that. Luckily we've still got a couple of days' margin.
I'm afraid I'm coming around to Gallina's way of thinking about this being our last LC concert. 2013 - the year I said goodbye to a totally self-indulgent, self-congratulating Neil Young... and now Leonard?
Amidst all this, I must express my thanks to Jarkko, the man in the middle, for being so efficient, always, and for e-mailing AEG so promptly this morning.
I totally agree with all in this post and feel very sorry to be disillusioned.
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:08 am
by lizzytysh
Of course Leonard isn't above reproach, Anne... but placing blame where it's due is what's called for... and that's not with Leonard.
I'd be disgruntled and upset, too, but not with him.
Confetti is absolutely right on where refunds are called for... on the concerts.
2013 - the year I said goodbye to a totally self-indulgent, self-congratulating Neil Young... and now Leonard?
No idea of the circumstances regarding Neil Young, Poolie; I only know that your choice of words don't apply to Leonard.
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:54 am
by Mabeanie1
The thing that's important to remember here is the sheer negligence of making the same mistake two years running AND giving a false assurance that there was no problem when fans raised the issue in the early stages of the presale.
It seems to me that there are a lot of guilty parties here - probably all thinking it OK because no on else (apart from the fans that is) said there might be a problem. The truth is that no one really focussed on it until too late - and I include Leonard in that. He knows far more about his touring schedule than many people think and do we really think that Robert gave us that infamous assurance without knowing Leonard's feelings on the matter?
Wendy
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:00 pm
by Rodin
Groundhog Day.
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 1:20 pm
by da2008
Can we please leave Neil Young out of this?
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:40 pm
by yoeri
Different persons could have prevented this mistake or done more to prevent it (including Leonard) that costs soms people a lot of effort and money. That being said: do you know a lot of concerts on Christmas?
Re: URGENT: LONDON AND LEEDS RE-SCHEDULED
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:06 pm
by lizzytysh
So, what you're saying/suggesting/speculating, Wendy, is that Leonard gave way to the Jews of London?
Who else in the line-up of decision-makers would have that level of care and authority for such a momentous change for that single reason, despite prior knowledge of that very conflict.