So cruel and so bright.

[Manna]

I can see that there may be some troubling things in what I wrote above.

1. It may sound like my husband doesn't satisfy me, so I need to clarify that. When I get home from work, I have usually not eaten since lunch, and I have usually just been biking. This puts me into a pretty hungry state. My husband is an excellent cook, and when I get home, he is often preparing dinner. I'm hungry, he makes dinner, and it's wonderful. After dinner, I'm not hungry anymore, but I still have want. Now I want to be entertained, to have a shower, to play with our daughter, to watch a movie, to study, to play some music, etc. And he is very accommodating to my wants, and he does whatever he can to help satisfy all those wants. My husband is a continuous source of satisfaction to me, and my want is a continuous source of exercise for him.

2. I didn't speak at all about my love for him here, but I have in other places. I love him, and I initiated this thread to see what I might learn to try to make my love better for him.

[lizzytysh]

Hi Manna ~

Well, I hit some key in error and lost all that I'd said. So, this will be briefer.

And he is very accommodating to my wants, and he does whatever he can to help satisfy all those wants. My husband is a continuous source of satisfaction to me, and my want is a continuous source of exercise for him.

2. I didn't speak at all about my love for him here, but I have in other places. I love him, and I initiated this thread to see what I might learn to try to make my love better for him.

This portion of your commentary has sparked some curiousity. With your having initiated this thread and expounded as you have, what I'm wondering is if you've considered turning the tables and enabling him to sometimes say:

"And she is very accommodating to my wants, and she does whatever she can to help satisfy all those wants. My wife is a continuous source of satisfaction to me, and my want is a continuous source of exercise for her."

If this is already the status of things in your life together, I'm wondering from where your question originates. There are only so many hours in a day; and it seems that some divvying up of gestures could help in your learning to try to make your love better for him. Maybe not; yet, it seems to be concerning you, and it likewise seems the answer to your question could be contained within your quote above. You could easily be leaving out some details, but at this point, it's coming across as a little one-sided. If loyalty is already in place, this balancing could make the difference.


Best wishes in this quest,
Lizzy

[lazariuk]

Maybe you could elaborate?

I'll try to explain.

When something approaches for the first time it can overwhelm, not necessarily because it is too painful or too bright or too big but rather it is because it is approaching and you have no way to know how big, how bright or how painful it is going to get. You just don't know if you are going to be able to handle it and you have no way of knowing.

But there is something that can change how you are experiencing it and that is the one beside you holding your hand. That can make all the difference.

If the person beside you is holding your hand and you can feel that they know intimately what is coming and everything about them says that it is something that will bring you joy and they have no doubt at all that you are going to be able to handle it then no matter how painful it will never be cruel or the kind of light that is experienced as too bright.

Maybe that is what is meant by "The shield of Abraham" The ones who have gone before.

But those things are out of my league and I have a simplier example in mind.

When my son was 6 months old I brought him to a swimming pool and got him to swim under water. This is how I did it.
I was in a warm pool holding him with both hands smiling deeply into his eyes and then I counted one two three, then blew gently on his face to activate his natural gag reflex and lowered him into the water. A few seconds later when I brought him out he was seeing his dad's eyes still smiling with his usual joy. He came out smiling. Every time later when he heard me saying one two three he knew he was going to have the fun of going under the water. Swimming came easily for him and the fact that as he was entering the water his hands were in the hands of someone who didn't fear the water made it very easy for him. It was a little something I could give him.

Using that same example we can take it further along in years and be at the shore of an ocean where he is about to experience his first big wave. It is coming toward him and all he can see is that it is getting bigger. It will be so much more enjoyable for him that there is someone at his side who is there fully confident that even thought it might be cold that he is going to have a wonderful time when it hits.

In Leonard's song he doesn't ask if it has to come with so much pain, he asks if it must come so cruel. We can make a big difference on how each other experiences light and love.

[Manna]

Lizzy,
I don't think there's anything wrong with my love for my husband that I want to fix. It's just that I want to do it better. Maybe a person thinks he does well at his job, but decides to take a class or two to try to learn to do it even better, or to get a promotion, though that's a horrible analogy to compare with love. I think striving to always do better is a good way to guide yourself through life.

Jack,
I like what you say about being in love together (which is how I take what you were saying about holding hands). It's nice to be there to help each other to feel safe in the face of the big, bright thing. To feel like you can trust it. Thanks for bringing up another aspect of love, that of parent and child. Maybe this thread will help me learn to love my daughter better too, an unexpected twist.

[Red Poppy]

Manna,
I think you have no need to explain anything to anyone.
Your question was a very valid one,your reasons for asking it are your own business.

[lizzytysh]

Hi Manna ~

Red Poppy is certainly right. You don't owe anyone any explanations on the reasons for your question. It's your question and it's your marriage. It sounded as though you were looking for some ideas on it all, so I gave you the only ones that occurred to me. The class or two isn't such a bad analogy. There are 'self'-improvement articles and books written regarding improving the marital relationship... which aren't intended to suggest that there's anything wrong with it, but rather wanting it to be the best it can be for both people and raising it to a high level of sustaining satisfaction for both. It sounds as though your situation with him will only continue to get better; and, again, I wish you the best in that. You commented that maybe you should make some confessions; however, your comment followed a reference to both your husband and G~d, so not sure which you meant or, really, if you meant it at all. It may have just been a passing reflective thought.


~ Lizzy

[Manna]

I've been a little anxious about how that last was going to be taken. I hope it didn't sound like I was offended. SometimesI am in a hurry, and I don't think things through very well before I hit the submit. I do appreciate all the comments, and I will consider what you said. I think there are things in there that I should give some attentiont to.

I should probably try to bring the focus back to the question - How can love and light come without being cruel and bright?

[lazariuk]

I should probably try to bring the focus back to the question - How can love and light come without being cruel and bright?

The way that Leonard sang that question gives me a thought. He preceeded it with saying "Myself I long for love and light"

Myabe it is our longing for love and light that sometimes doesn't allow it to come in the way that it is intended. Maybe our longing needs refining and sublimating.

[Red Poppy]

Of course, and this may be self-evident, love is not always cruel and nor is light necessarily a harbinger of cruelty. In the context of the song the light of the flame is cruel but it's a story within a song. It's not necessarily a philosophy of life and it would be dangerous to assign it that role.

[John Etherington]

In answer to lazariuk's question, I would say that it is the deeper unconscious or a greater Will that brings relationship experiences into our lives. They may not be the ones that we consciously seek, and they sometimes bring pain, but if we stay aware we may find that they are the ones we need for our personal development at a particular time.

[Manna]

I saw some algae yesterday in a stream while I was on a long car ride. What I liked about it was that I saw that it goes with the flow, but it also puts its foot down and doesn't get too caught up.

Sometimes the love we give may not be able to be accepted by others. We want to have love, we want to give love too, and maybe not only the longing but the giving also needs refining.

[John Etherington]

"And if only fools are kind, algae
Then I guess it's wise to be cruel"

(with apologies to Burt Bacharach!).

[glida]

Really interesting thread.

I agree that Leonard often combines spiritual longing with his quest for the goddess. In "If It Be Your Will," sometimes it seems that the two are nearly indistinguishable:

"If it be your will that I speak no more
And my voice be still as it was before
I will speak no more, I will abide until
I am spoken for, if it be your will."

I think it's this quest for the idealized other than sets us up to crash and burn in relationships, or feel some underlying emptiness, even in an otherwise good relationship. We all come into relationships, I think, with accumulated baggage and woundedness, and so often long for the partner who will heal our wounds and sooth our pain. But to some degree,the suffering we experience with our intimates has a positive function for learning, healing, growth, and gathering a ton of not always wanted information needed for our life journeys. I guess I can't remember one time in my life I've ever heard anyone say, "You know, I've just had a really great year, and boy did I grow!"

I'm recalling Leonard saying (from Book of Longing and Leonard Cohen: I'm Your Man) that if you grab at love your will lose a snowflake of your memory. I think the "grabbing" has to do with a sometimes desperate attempt to find that which will give us that sense of connection, which can melt away as quickly as that snowflake - grabbing = a partial loss of self. I've often felt that when we're looking for someone else to complete us in some way, that it's helpful to look within to see what possibility of self we have just given away.

I can't think of anyone currently writing who has a better handle on these issues than Leonard, which is why I've been an admirer for 40 years.

Peace,
Fred

[linda_lakeside]

Hi Fred/glida - at first look I thought it said 'gilda' (almost like Glen and Glenda...but I digress)...

Hmm. I'm surprised that no one has responded. Likely afraid of lurking multiples. Me? I'm not afraid of the dark, so I'll say, I liked your take very much. I'd love to go over it more closely, but it was posted over two weeks ago, and I don't even know if you (still) exist.

Yes, we often go into relationships with the hope that the new boy (girl) in town will help us heal. But, that kind of 'grabbing' for a 'fix' rarely works. Leonard is very good at spotting and articulating the finer and (not so finer) points, that we humans use to poke holes into each others' psyches/hearts. He was likely responsible for much of that naughtiness. And I'm very sure many women 'grew' as a result. (I'd say: "Boy, did I ever have a crappy year, and I'm so glad, 'cause I grew so much as a result!")

As they say,
All Good Things

[glida]

Hi, Linda,

Well, I do exist (last time I pinched myself, anyway).

Glida has been my sign-in in a variety of different places and locations - first learned the word when I was working/learning on a kibbutz back in '72/'73 - it's the Hebrew word for ice cream, and later became the name of my cat (who, from a certain near-sighted perspective, looked like a scoop of fudge ripple).

Best,
Fred