"come forth from the cloud of unknowing . . ."

[Geoffrey]

Thank you Vicomte, Cindee, Violet and especially Geoffrey for the way you are talking about this difficult subject. I think it is natural that these questions are wondered about. I have no idea what is right or wrong in this situation. I am grateful Geoffrey that you can express your questions and concerns so carefully and with regard for Leonard's loved ones. I don't know how to conclude this except to say peace to all.

hello sereneava. good of you to join us, and thank you for taking the time to write. i have no idea what is right or wrong either, and i am very afraid of encouraging a "four in the morning, the end of december" atmosphere. with words i feel i am more clumsy than careful. i relinquished my british citizenship a long time ago, and norwegian has been my everyday language for the greater part of my life. a poor excuse, but the only one i have. yes, i have thought about leonard's loved ones, and try as best i can to weigh all words so as not to cause more sorrow than they already have gone through - should they read my notes. i take solace in knowing that his 'children' are adults, that several weeks have now passed, and that one shouldn't really need permission to ask a question. in a way they are lucky; they know what happened, can begin the recovery process - whereas those who know nothing cannot. peace to you too, sereneava.

while writing, i would like to thank the lady called 'violet' for a superb message written from a "snow-covered mountain". she prioritised contributing to this thread above preparing a christmas day dinner - and that is something i will remember for a long time

[Violet]

while writing, i would like to thank the lady called 'violet' for a superb message written from a "snow-covered mountain". she prioritised contributing to this thread above preparing a christmas day dinner - and that is something i will remember for a long time

That's sweet of you to say, Geoffrey. As I said earlier, I've had these kinds of questions myself -- from that first dreadful moment that I saw the news on Twitter -- and so when I saw what you were doing I felt obliged to put down my own thoughts on the matter, and as objectively as I knew how. My more personal feelings I don't feel are as important, since not all of us feel similarly. But that there should be some clarity around this issue to me seems self evident.

I would add that I also feel for the family. Very much so. I also don't feel this matter is about attributing blame. But as you pointed out, Geoffrey, some time has passed, which might possibly allow a more open treatment of all this to emerge.

[Mary72]

First I thought to take note of at least a few of the various accounts, starting with the Dutch pianist, Iris Hond, who knew Leonard and Patrick Leonard and who I believe was the first to mention leukemia as well as a fall, although her account includes a coma that lasted a month (this account mentioned on this forum by HugoD re: Dutch t.v). Strange that here is a legitimate source in that she was in contact with people close to Leonard, and yet nowhere else is a coma mentioned. And yet how could one get such a major detail entirely wrong?

Violet

Hi Violet, my dear Geoffrey hallo til deg også,

I am bit a surprised with the mention of the "a coma that lasted a month", I am not sure you have seen that short video clip that Adam posted on his wall and 2 days after, if not day after, was taken and vanished from all the other places. that was end of october. Leonard was extremely frail, I could see light coming from his body, that sort of light that tells you that your days are really numbered. They were listening to Treaty and Adam focus his father face in a way that says everything about the moment. I framed his face in that precise moment he looks at you a last time without any expression, he tries to smile but he can't.
I know some of us here knew that he was sick. I also know that Leonard didn't wanted to speak about or kept it as private matter. He only mentions that he "has cancer" in that audio conversation with David Remnick that was released after his death. He also spoke about a "second wind" and he was trying to finish everything he started.
Everything would have been different if Robert Kory had said he died peacefully in his sleep. But he didn't. For that reason, my dear Geoffrey, I fully understand your questions and that you want to pursue the truth cause no ones goes back to bed after a fall, specially if you are an elderly, with leukemia and extremely frail.

[Geoffrey]

Mary72 wrote:
>Hi Violet, my dear Geoffrey hallo til deg også,

hei 'mary72'. jeg kjenner deg igjen fra bildet ditt

>I am not sure you have seen that short video clip that Adam posted on his wall and 2 days after, if not day after, was taken and vanished from all the other places.

no, i saw not that video - but very much would like to.

>He [leonard] also spoke about a "second wind" and he was trying to finish everything he started.

yes, this i have heard.

>Everything would have been different if Robert Kory had said he died peacefully in his sleep. But he didn't.

you raise a true and interesting point, 'mary72'. do you have any idea why mr kory felt that he had to say leonard had fallen?

>. . . no ones goes back to bed after a fall, specially if you are an elderly, with leukemia and extremely frail.

this is precisely the heart of the conundrum, one that is crying out for clarity. let us hope that we soon receive some words that give closure. below i reprint the brief statement that was put into the public domain. you may or may not agree, that what is striking about it is not what it says, but what it doesn't say - the huge white area.

[Violet]

Hi Violet, my dear Geoffrey hallo til deg også,

I am bit a surprised with the mention of the "a coma that lasted a month", I am not sure you have seen that short video clip that Adam posted on his wall and 2 days after, if not day after, was taken and vanished from all the other places. that was end of october. Leonard was extremely frail, I could see light coming from his body, that sort of light that tells you that your days are really numbered. They were listening to Treaty and Adam focus his father face in a way that says everything about the moment. I framed his face in that precise moment he looks at you a last time without any expression, he tries to smile but he can't.
I know some of us here knew that he was sick. I also know that Leonard didn't wanted to speak about or kept it as private matter. He only mentions that he "has cancer" in that audio conversation with David Remnick that was released after his death. He also spoke about a "second wind" and he was trying to finish everything he started.
Everything would have been different if Robert Kory had said he died peacefully in his sleep. But he didn't. For that reason, my dear Geoffrey, I fully understand your questions and that you want to pursue the truth cause no ones goes back to bed after a fall, specially if you are an elderly, with leukemia and extremely frail.

Hi Mary,

So deeply sad to think about, the things you describe here. I've been wondering, do you know when Leonard first learned he had cancer?

[Geoffrey]

Hi Mary,
So deeply sad to think about, the things you describe here. I've been wondering, do you know when Leonard first learned he had cancer?

hi again, violet.
he told me he was going through what he called "tricky times", that was 14 months ago - november 2015.

[Violet]

Thanks, Geoffrey.

New Year's greetings to you, and all here.

[Geoffrey]

Thanks, Geoffrey.

New Year's greetings to you, and all here.

from me, too

[sereneava]

And now it is the new year here in Sydney. Best wishes and blessings to all on the Leonard Cohen Forum.

[juneC]

I agree with Geoffrey.

Alan, yes what you found is of course factual but what I think both myself and Geoffrey would like to know is the circumstances behind the fall and what was done after the fall and by who. Who wants to find out a much later date
the truth behind it all. That would only leave time and space for the conspiracy journos to offer us their stories which although probably rubbish could easily become fact to many, then try and flatten the "myths" with the truth and "it ain't gonna happen" then times that by several journos versions and you will end up never ever knowing the full honest story.

this message was good to read, vicomte, and inspired me to add the following:

it is very unusual, to say the least, for so few details to be released concerning the unnatural death of a major celebrity. there has now passed five days of silence following my querie to leonard's management, and i have to admit that i am beginning to become worried by the prolonged secrecy. i am not saying "something is rotten in the state of denmark" - to quote shakespeare - but a reluctance to give information does, unfortunately, tend to create suspicion. there has been only one official report of leonard's accident, the one written by his management dated 16th november 2016, nine full days after his death. it told us two things: a fall in the night killed him, and he died peacefully. that was all it said.

the truth is i don't feel comfortable about pursuing this. i would prefer to lead a quiet life, move on, not get involved. i keep asking myself the reason i am doing it, and the only answer i can come up with is: BECAUSE NOBODY ELSE WILL.

At the risk of appearing to ‘jump on the bandwagon’ I would like to say Geoffrey how very much I appreciated finding your original post with so many numbered questions from your journal as to exactly how it was Leonard came to die so suddenly - every single one of which I must say has passed through my own head so many times. No else seems to have been brave enough to try to get an answer, either that or they are content to accept the (non)explanation already given.

The most recent comment I have found from his management Robert Kory is the speech he gave at a memorial for Leonard held by his family on December 11, 2016 at Ohr HaTorah Synagogue in Los Angeles. The only sentence referring to his death stated:
“He passed away abruptly, and had he known he was almost out of time, he surely would have extended the show to thank you himself, as he did every night on tour, despite my protestations about union overtime after 11:30PM!”

No more illuminating than the statement he put out just after Leonard had died is it? I will keep my eye on this thread in case you receive something more specific from his management Geoffrey. I'm just thinking about my partner who died almost exactly four years ago quite suddenly; I would be able to provide every detail from the moment I heard him fall out of bed to the moment of his passing in hospital the following day. Maybe they don't wish to make public potentially upsetting details which is understandable but as it stands it doesn't quite add up does it?

Also: “Leonard Cohen died during his sleep following a fall in the middle of the night on Nov. 7,” Mr. Kory said in a statement. “The death was sudden, unexpected and peaceful.”

And from Allan Showalter (Cohencentric) different time of death

“My understanding is that he fell asleep sometime after the fall but before dusk Monday. He died in his sleep during the daytime on Monday”

[Geoffrey]

hello june, good to 'see' you. thank you for your letter, and for calling me 'brave' - a description i hesitate to accept. as anyone here will tell you, being involved in any type of controversy is totally foreign to my nature. i have always been a student of the scriptures, and merely try to live by our lord's words "the truth shall make you free," as found in john 8:32.

i wrote to leonard's management on 23 december 2016, using the email address at the top of the statement. however, like a bowl of artificial fruit one can see in a furniture showroom, perhaps it was placed there just for decoration. anyway, my letter was worded thus:
-------------------------
dear mr kory
several questions recently posted on social media and the leonard cohen files' forum, concerning leonard's death, have aroused some interest. i am wondering, therefore, whether you would like to make a comment.
best wishes -
geoffrey wren
[i attached the same questions as appeared in the opening message of this thread]
-------------------------
the hardest journey in the world is to a person who refuses to talk, or as famous psychotherapist (fritz perls) said: "a refusal to communicate is the most toxic of all human behaviour." - because without dialogue there can never be healing. having said that, there are one or two points that could be raised in mr kory's defence. christmas and hanukkah occurred at the same time this year, so perhaps leonard's management has been closed for business. plus, mr kory would likely need to consult with leonard's family before releasing further information - and that might well cause a delay. also, what actually happened could be so disturbing that it has been agreed silence is the safest response.

if anyone has a suggestion on how to progress from here, i would very much like to hear it.

-geoffrey

[Violet]

Hi Geoffrey.

You could check public records, since deaths are recorded. That will at least establish the official cause of death, the time and place.

You may have to check LA and Montreal since there seems to be some conflict as to just where he died. Unless someone here has such information and is willing to share it.

I wanted to mention something else I noticed in one of the recent articles posted at this forum, although I’ve been unable to relocate it. I remembered it was from Maclean’s magazine, and so I’ve been able to find it online. But this particular passage struck me. It's in the context of writer Brian D. Johnson’s meeting with Leonard in 2002. I’ll include the paragraph leading up to the disclosure made by Leonard:

A decade after that first encounter, we met in Los Angeles. I drove right by his modest duplex, missing the address, and passed a man in a suit with a silver beard. Backing up, I realized it was Leonard, waiting for me out front. You remember the little things. Leonard serving lentil soup that he’d had simmering on the stove all afternoon, declaring it to be the best in world. Making chopped liver sandwiches. Refilling little gold-rimmed glasses with red wine, so many times we lose count. Watching him try to fix an old toaster in his kitchen, which lacked a dishwasher. He said he was “handy.”

He recalled how he once passed out in that kitchen for some unknown reason, and woke up bleeding on the floor. He pointed out the spot where his head had splintered a shelf, and how he had mended the wood, almost invisibly.

From: 'The heart will not retreat': How we loved Leonard Cohen, by Brian D. Johnson. http://www.macleans.ca/culture/arts/the ... ard-cohen/

Of course, given the recent fall, one wonders if this prior incident of passing out happened with any frequency.

I know there was his collapse on stage during a concert in Spain. I just looked it up and found this video recording of the incident shot by a Spaniard (I'm assuming) by the name of Carlos Carrascosa, with Leonard's collapse occurring towards the very end:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3upf6BdRXk

My recollection of this incident is that it was due to exhaustion, but I see that stomach cramps and even food poisoning are often cited as the cause. In any event, if you watch the fall Leonard doesn’t seem to be suffering from cramps. He seems to just “pass out.”

Geoffrey, this might be something to look into further. There are a lot of different reasons one might pass out. But, the point is, if there is a pattern of passing out then it’s more likely that that’s what could have happened with the fall that precipitated his death. Even as things stand, it exists at the very least as a possibility. Only, this time he sustained a fatal head injury.

[Geoffrey]

what an impressive message, violet - thank you - you are beautiful!! was just closing shop for the night when it hijacked my optic globes. i happen to have a photographic memory, so instead of replying spontaneously here and now, what i think i will do is glue it to the insides of my eyelids. that way i can stare at it all night long, and when the fingers of dawn pull up my fleshy shutters, i hope to climb out of the wanking pit brimming over with fresh ideas inspired by what has been absorbed. together you and i have the potential to ensure that every lucky person here has a most enthralling time ahead of them.

meanwhile, a picture of a buddhist monk

[Geoffrey]

dear violet

i am pretty sure leonard died in los angeles, not that i have any evidence, mind you - merely an educated guess. yet, i must admit that the management's sadistic reluctance to supply such basic information remains a source of unnecessary irritation. it reminds me of how vandals bend car antennas and windscreen wipers out of pure devilment. would i love to catch those little bastards!

there is a not-so-subtle difference between someone tumbling over and gently tapping their head on the floor and someone crashing heavily down and suffering major trauma. i do not, of course, want or expect to be given explicit details; a little hint about what occurred would suffice. at the moment everything is shrouded in mystery, he just seems to have evaporated; gone like the summer, gone like the snow - and after knowing him for so many years that is no way to say goodbye.

you mention public records, but my geographical position presents a considerable handicap. i could write emails here and there, contact the national enquirer magazine, find a modern day lieutenant columbo, etc., etc., but initiating such an investigation is all so unnecessary when a little more transparency is all that is needed. you must remember that i am not the type of person who likes to cause trouble.

thank you for reprinting the relevant part of the brian d johnson article. the collapse in spain i had seen before. yes, it seems leonard was prone to an occasional blackout. i know many people will be thinking it was the drink, but high blood pressure can also do it, so let's give him the benefit of the doubt. just because someone invents an alcoholic concoction called 'the red needle' doesn't make them a juicehead.

on a side note: there was mention of leonard repairing his toaster, and i wondered if it had a connection to a story told by sean, a wonderful lady with whom i have had good contact with over many a long year. i remember leonard confiding to me one day that he was in love with her. we were talking about something completely different when he just put down his knife and fork, looked up from his vegetarian quiche lorraine, and said it out of the blue. anyway, forget that - sean's story can be read here:

http://cohencentric.com/2015/05/10/mash ... d-cohen-3/

[Violet]

It's funny you linked to the terribly funny and touching toaster oven story -- although I remembered it being a plain toaster. But I too thought of it when I read Brian Johnson's account. So, we both have toasters on the brain.

As for head injuries, they are tricky. One can be lucid one moment then gone the next. I was reading that after a seemingly minor head injury one should not be left alone since symptoms can show up hours later. Going to sleep immediately after a head injury can also be dangerous since one can fall into a coma. Internal bleeding of the brain can take time to build up; this is why one isn't always aware of the imminent danger.

I don't know how hard one has to hit one's head for there to be serious brain trauma. I believe in part it has to do with where the head is hit. The way Leonard collapsed while up on stage did seem fairly gentle a fall. He looked to be sitting down, then he slowly went forward and then down, perhaps landing on one of the many rugs he used to have on stage.

But then the fall in the kitchen was obviously far more violent. That his head actually damaged a wooden shelf on the way down is testament to that.

You also mentioned blackouts, which aren't the same as passing out. One typically thinks of an alcoholic who doesn't remember what happened while intoxicated, which doesn't necessarily involve passing out.

Well, Geoffrey, the new year is just getting underway so perhaps something else will come up concerning all this.

(Oh, and I like the purple monk.)