leonardcohenforum.com

Hi Rick!
Actually, I already have a translation of the Horses, and quite a poetic one - with rhythm, rhymes, all those things. It wasn't made by me, though... and, yet, I surely have nothing against a dinner or some wine !
And... I'll put the text here when I find it .

Yours,
TH.

Hi Helven,

I have the perfect wine (La Rioja Alta's Viña Ardanza) and the perfect restaurant! Of course, it's here in Washington, DC. However I know a very nice place in Paris...

Hi Rick,

Paris sounds great ! And I think it must be ideal for the perfect wine tasting, as well . Washington is as good as Paris, of course, but it’s so far...

So here’re the Horses:



Fastidious Horses

Along the gap, right by the cliff, where the edge is very narrow
With the whip I lash my horses, striking harder, force applying...
There's no air for me to breathe, – I drink the wind, the mist I swallow
I can feel with tragic passion that I am dying, that I am dying!

Slow it down, horses, calm your eagerness!
Do not listen to the old tight thong!
But the horses that I've got are fastidious –
Had no time to fully live or sing the song...

I'll allow them to drink, and this verse I will sing,
Just a little bit longer I will stay on the brink...

Like a flake, a brutal twister will then sweep me off the palm,
In the morning, by the sledge, on the snow I'll heave and welter.
Slow your gallop, oh my horses, – make it peaceful and calm
And extend, somewhat, my journey to the last and final shelter.

Slow it down, horses, calm your eagerness!
Do not listen to the old tight thong!
But the horses that I've got are fastidious –
Had no time to fully live or sing the song...

I'll allow them to drink, and this verse I will sing,
Just a little bit longer I will stay on the brink...

We came in time – there's no lateness to God's palace –
Why are angels singing there with their loud, angry voices?
And perhaps it is the bell, which is weeping thus with malice,
When I'm screaming "Slow it down!" to the wild, unruly horses?

Slow it down, horses, calm your eagerness!
I'm begging you, do not charge so strong!
But the horses that I've got are fastidious –
Had no time to live, – let me finish this song!

I'll allow them to drink, and this verse I will sing,
And just for a moment, I will stay on the brink...

Translation by Andrey Kneller

Thanks Helven, the lyrics make the dance and song in the movie even more moving. It is quite a moment to experience.

I will get the song and post it for anyone who wants to hear it.

So, Paris it is then. Say, half past noon?

Okay, Rick, half past noon, Paris .

2 Helven
Hi! I'd like you help me in one trouble. My English is so poor and I thought that you can translate this song from Russian. This song was written by Mike Naumenko and when I listen it at first time I wonder how this text too similare to text of "I'm your man". If you can please see it here http://www.mikenaumenko.ru/album_gorod.htm#2
It named "yesli ti hochesh" (if you want).

Hi Docck!
Yes, of course, I’ll try. My English is poor, too, though, but… well, I’ll translate, and you’ll read and maybe add something. So we’ll, probably, “create” something more or less acceptable together. It’ll take some time, however.
I liked Naumenko. Didn’t hear too much by him, but really loved the things I heard. And “Pesnya guru” [Song of a Guru] was my favourite one. I’d even translate it, too; it’s so pretty funny ! But I’m afraid I’m not able to reproduce its style in English. This spoken language… ah, well…

Okay, I’ll do that translation in a couple of days or so.

Here it is, this translation:
[Elizabeth, thank you for the consultation ! All the rest may be wrong, though … ]

If You Want

All of us need someone
We could love.
And if you want, you can come to love me.
And all of us need someone to beat,
To torture, mutilate, or even kill.
And if you want, you can do me in.

And all of us need at times
To cry into someone’s waistcoat,
And if you want, you can take mine.
And all of us need at times to be better than others,
More intelligent, more beautiful, and stronger than others,
And if you want, you can be better than me.
[“to cry into smb.’s waistcoat” (it’s an idiom in Russian) = “to cry on smb.’s shoulder”. I don’t use a proper wording here since I wouldn’t like to deprive these lines of their light humour. And it’d be difficult to use a shoulder with a good effect here… “you can borrow my shoulder to cry on it…” hmm… ]

But if all of us suddenly become somewhat better,
I'll give you a chance, and you'll be able to put up a fight.
I’ll make room for you behind my back.
So think, think, think what to do with me.
Think, think, think with your own mind.
We can drink together,
But we won’t sing together!

And all of us need at times to laugh at someone,
And if you want, you can jeer at me.
So cuckold me and sew a tale to me,
Come on, baby, don’t blow up my brains,
But if you want, you can blow up me.
[an idiom “ to make smb. horned” (appr. ) is used here for “cuckold”; maybe “to sew a tale” is a kind of an idiom, too, I simply don’t know… Docck, do we have anything about tales in addition to “nakrutit’ hvost” and “vertet’ hvostom” ? Don’t you know?
I’d say he meant here, as well, “you can make an animal of me and jeer at that” and also “make a devil of me”… just such a pun with those “horns and tales”. ]

And we need to gorge in order to live,
And we need to sleep o’ nights,
And if you want, you can sleep next to me.
And all of us need someone who’d love us,
Everyone needs someone who’d love,
And if you want, I’ll come to love you too.
[i.e. “I’ll come to love you - in addition to all the rest who I love”]

But if all of us suddenly become somewhat better,
I'll give you a chance, and you'll be able to put up a fight.
I’ll make room for you behind my back.
So think, think, think what to do with me.
Think, think, think with your own mind.
We can drink together,
But we won’t sing together!

You're welcome, of course, Helven, for the tiny bit I helped you with [any time ]. You do so well on your own!

Hi, Helven!
It's great work!
But I've some ideas about translation:
1) "you’ll be able to declare war on me"
Maybe better variant'll "give me fight"
2) "sew a tale" is the best choise, it'sn't idiom at all, he just proposed do it to him
3) it's a real problem with waistcoat but I think that your footnote explain all of this
And a lot of thanks one more time!!!!

You're welcome, Docck !
Yes, "to give fight" would be more precious. But I wasn't sure if there's this very word combination in English. I know one can "do" or "give battle". But here, again, I'm not sure if it'd be correct "to give me battle" or anyhow else .

And, yes, a waistcoat was a problem... I just was imagining that borrowed shoulder ... a song of a robot-transformer ...

Would "put up a fight" work in this context? As in, "resist on your own behalf, in defense of your own beliefs of how things should be"? Not a literal fight, but a fight for preservation of one's 'self.' I'd have to study the poem as a whole, to really know for sure, if my idea has any merit at all. I just wanted to get that out there, as an idea, based strictly on my reading the phrase in question.

Thank you, Elizabeth ! Yes, I think "put up a fight" would be appropriate here. At least, the way I interpret this line is close to your interpretation. Actually, the author says in this song, "You can love me, you can beat me, you can "shine" against my background, you can cry on my shoulder", and so on. He's ready to be everything she needs. But such an attitude sometimes forms a kind of egoism and dependence which a partner may experience. So he says then: but if we become better, you'll be able to "resist" me, i.e. to become independent, just to be yourself… So that they could become "equal partners". I see it in this way.
So, it'll be, "I'll give you a chance, and you'll be able to put up a fight with me". Should it be "with" here?

I don't think so. My thinking [perhaps wrong] is that maybe it would be[?]:

"I'll give you a chance, and you'll be able to put up a fight" or even
"I'll give you a chance, and you can put up a fight" or even
"I'll give you a chance to put up a fight" or even
"I'll give you a chance for you to put up a fight" [that's kind of a 'permission' ~ a giving of space ~ for the other person to claim [their own space]. It could be that the original party was so domineering and dominating that they squashed every opportunity that the second party may have had, but now the first party is willing to stand back and give them that necessary freedom to be who they really are.

You're right on what you're saying with regard to the damaging effects on the relationship, as a whole, when the freedom isn't there. Not fulfilling, for either party, in the end.

Thanks, Elizabeth!
With your help I understand how is my English really bad !
I think that "I'll give you a chance, and you'll be able to put up a fight" is closer to Mike's text then other variants. It's a pity that we can't ask Mike himself - his life was so identical to old slogan "live fast die young"