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Geoffrey wrote:but why is he now complaining about not being allowed to even see it any more?

Because the love [itself] is gone? I always had impression that this song is about, or at least that this verse moves to the topic of lost love. It's gone, and now he remembers. (But I remember how I moved in you... and the holy dove was moving to... The love was sacred [the dove], but now nothing remains on his lips but broken Hallelujah.)

As Abby said, something deeper, much deeper (be it "it") has been lost. As always with Cohen, I feel this verse (and song) as the part of long, continued work. Love, love itself, that "authentic touch" which has been lost is actually that state of grace when hearts open in the fundamental way, when the truth is truth, and lie is a lie, and the marriage is sacred, it's not spent, and the birth is not betrayed. (It has nothing to do with anti-abortion statement, as some people pointed out. It's simply that in *true* world the hearts are opening in the fundamental way, way down deep, a thousand kisses deep, and the marriage is not spent.)

Geoffrey wrote:in one of leonard's songs he sings "now you never even show it to me, do ya!" what did she stop letting him look at, and why?

I cant resist a reply to this thread
Maybe if she knew then what she knows now she would have given him another look

I loved your and Abby's replies, Tom. Thanks to both of you.


~ Lizzy

lizzytysh wrote:
>I loved your and Abby's replies, Tom. Thanks to both of you.


yes, i did, too. it's encouraging to learn that some people do harvest and consider the lyrics instead of just letting them go straight into a mental compost. i don't think it's fair on leonard to dance to and enjoy a song he has laboured upon without thinking a little bit about what is behind its meaning. it's like soldiers willingly losing their lives in iraq because of oil, while the politicians who sent them down there use taxis to go to nightclubs. we have to learn to think. people tell me that if god doesn't exist it's idiotic to be kind, because nature's law commands that the strongest will survive, that the law of the jungle is paramount. they ask me: what is the good of being humanistic, what is the point of humans being good? as soon as your money has left your hand the transaction is complete. it's no good informing the street vendor, one second after your business with him is finished, that from his canopy a resting pigeon had opened its bowels onto your ice cream. he will not be interested. you can take photographs of the men who break into your cellar, you can write down their car registration numbers, but the police don't really want to know. there is no such thing as a free meal, we are alone in this world and have to fight for survival - and that is why it is so important to use one's brain. therefore i tell you i am encouraged when i see that people are able to think about what they see and hear instead of just letting it all go by.

'the holy dove she was moving too'
I initially thought that - as was taught to me when I was brought up a Catholic - conception takes place by the intervention of the Holy Ghost or Spirit. As the Holy Ghost is 'represented' by a dove, the coming together in the song resulted in a child being conceived. The fact that in the lyrics the holy dove is 'she', unless the Pope has done a volte-face on G*d being a man (unlikely!), this would tend rule out my imaginings. I still like it though. Leonard maybe introducing a little bit of a different religion, just the sort of thing he enjoy doing.
Evie B

You could interpret this as she never shows him anything below the surface - there was a time when she let him see below the surface but now she never shows it to him. When he moved in her he influenced her in some way. However I much prefer the sexy alternatives - much more fun!

An ex-boyfriend of mine confided that he no longer loved his wife, and was planning to leave the marriage. I ran into him a few months later, and he told me that his wife had just found out that she was pregnant. Seeing the look on my face, he added somewhat sheepishly, 'God moves in mysterious ways...' I replied 'Seems to me it wasn't only god who was moving in mysterious ways... !'

imaginary friend wrote:
>An ex-boyfriend of mine confided that he no longer loved his wife, and was planning to leave the marriage. I ran into him a few months later, and he told me that his wife had just found out that she was pregnant. Seeing the look on my face, he added somewhat sheepishly, 'God moves in mysterious ways...' I replied 'Seems to me it wasn't only god who was moving in mysterious ways... !


You had a relationship with a married man who said he was planning to leave his wife. Your relationship with him stopped, for one reason or another, and his marriage continued. After some months had passed you met him coincidentally - and he told you his wife had become pregnant. Upon seeing your reaction to his news, he added: "God moves in mysterious ways." You responded by saying: "'Seems to me it wasn't only God who was moving in mysterious ways."

Were you aware before your relationship with him started that he was married, and was he living with his wife during that time?

Relax Geoffrey,

He was my boyfriend (as well as my ex-boyfriend) long before he (or I) got married to our respective spouses. We saw each other in the same social circle, and though we remained good friends, there was no hanky-panky.

...so no need for that spanking, thank you (anyway that's MY domain. Whrrrr-snap!)

depewrote:
>You could interpret this as she never shows him anything below the surface - there was a time when she let him see below the surface but now she never shows it to him. When he moved in her he influenced her in some way.

Yes, I too have toyed with various interpretations. Initially I imagined him living in a flat with a lady neighbour living directly beneath - on the next storey down. When bumping into her on the staircase she earlier would sometimes apologise for the noise that came from her flat, and explain that she had been decorating, or moving furniture around, or whatever. Occasionally she would even invite him in to see for himself. Then for some unknown reason she stopped being so chatty on the stairs. So one day when he met her he said: "There was a time you'd let me know what was going on below, but now you don't even show it to me, do you!"

Maybe something innocent like this is what he meant in that song. Perhaps only after it had been released he listened to it and thought to himself: "Gosh, I've just realised that these lyrics are ambiguous! Somebody could interpret them into meaning something sexual!"

imaginary friend wrote:
>Relax Geoffrey, He was my boyfriend (as well as my ex-boyfriend) long before he (or I) got married to our respective spouses. We saw each other in the same social circle, and though we remained good friends, there was no hanky-panky.

That was reassuring to hear. For there is so much decadence around these days. I am aware that caustic criticism can bite like an axe into the trunk of any young sapling that dares blossom in this wasteland, and therefore do my utmost to resist the temptation to find fault in others. As a person who has sinned more than most, it is not my station to point a finger. For as a bar of perfumed soap on a man's bathroom wash-basin will shrink as it makes a tramp smell nice, so the blackest soul hopes to be cleansed at the expense of those he exploits.

For as a bar of perfumed soap on a man's bathroom wash-basin will shrink as it makes a tramp smell nice, so the blackest soul hopes to be cleansed at the expense of those he exploits

Honesty in its purest form.

I blame the dove. Is it any wonder that she stopped showing 'it' to him, what with that dove ('holy' or otherwise) flapping around?

If Stephen Scobie's reading, perhaps he'll include this thread in his next anthology? (not)

We cam include it in next event's booklet:)

In any case, I wanted to say that I'm so glad to see Geoffrey back in game!