So it seems Lucinda Williams is following in JM's footsteps. This is from a recent news item I found on the Dylan site. Quite apart from the accuracy or lack of it in this kind of statements it show a lack of class. Its for others to decide and appreciate who is better or not (if such a thing even exists in songwriting) not for the artist themselves. I cannot imagine Dylan ever making a statement like "I think I've reached the level of Woody Guthrie."
Or its also possible the press twists things out of context like they sometimes/often do.
US country star LUCINDA WILLIAMS associates herself with legends including BOB DYLAN and BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, because she believes her talents are as good as the "great writers" of music.
Many stars still revere the genius of the likes of rock poet Dylan, but ESSENCE singer Williams is confident she is on a par with her idols.
She says, "I feel like I've caught up with a few people I used to really look up to.
"Of course I still admire them, but I feel like I'm reaching their level of artistry: Bruce Springsteen, TOM PETTY, dare I say it, Bob Dylan. I don't know if I should say that one yet! JONI MITCHELL. The great writers."
22/07/2005 05:25
Joni casts off Leonard discourteously
Ha....this is also from the Dylan site. Excerpt from an article on Norman Mailer.
For a writer so associated with Sixties protests, Mailer has little love for the music of that era, particularly Bob Dylan. "I don't like Bob," he tells me over lunch. "He was over our house once at a party many years ago, and he was a snotty little son of a bitch - very taken with himself. I've always felt his lyrics, of course, were uncontestably good - no argument there. But I think he really has one of the leanest, small voices I've ever heard on a major singer. His poetry's not that bad. No question he certainly had an influence on a whole generation. But that used to worry me, too. I thought with that sort of slightly nasty leer and that ill-founded confidence - the idea of 'the wind blowing' and 'it'll take care of all you bad people' - all that nonsense was dangerous. It seemed very, very foolish."
For a writer so associated with Sixties protests, Mailer has little love for the music of that era, particularly Bob Dylan. "I don't like Bob," he tells me over lunch. "He was over our house once at a party many years ago, and he was a snotty little son of a bitch - very taken with himself. I've always felt his lyrics, of course, were uncontestably good - no argument there. But I think he really has one of the leanest, small voices I've ever heard on a major singer. His poetry's not that bad. No question he certainly had an influence on a whole generation. But that used to worry me, too. I thought with that sort of slightly nasty leer and that ill-founded confidence - the idea of 'the wind blowing' and 'it'll take care of all you bad people' - all that nonsense was dangerous. It seemed very, very foolish."
I agree with you, Kush.
It looks very odd in print, and just doesn't set well with the mind. There are so many rephrasings of the same, basic tenet of Lucinda's that it's hard to blame it on the press.
The comparisons I've seen that artists have made between themselves and their peers [generally when asked] have been from a humble perspective ~ particularly, when they've been regarding someone I've considered as being, perhaps/potentially on a par.
It looks very odd in print, and just doesn't set well with the mind. There are so many rephrasings of the same, basic tenet of Lucinda's that it's hard to blame it on the press.
The comparisons I've seen that artists have made between themselves and their peers [generally when asked] have been from a humble perspective ~ particularly, when they've been regarding someone I've considered as being, perhaps/potentially on a par.
Hmm, the thing is that Lucinda is really good as the mentioned authors (I'd dare to say even better), while Joni said that Leonad is not wotrh because he stole everything from Camus and Garcia Lorca. Lucinda didn't say "Well, I am better than Dylan, because Dylan stole everything he can from Rimbaud". -- Not in the same leauge of expression, I think, oh no.
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
I heard about that, but never saw her live. Some people says she barely can stand during the shows... But I love her. "Essence-singer" - so, she's finally labelled for rest of her life.Henning wrote:Luci in the sky with diamonds !
Speaking about Norman Mailer, "Mailer, I'll kill you and all of your family, you..." more or less like that. Any ideas who could that be and why?
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
would that be caused by too much "falling down juice" or some other substance? I think she's great too! But I've never seen her, only heard her albums.Some people says she barely can stand during the shows... But I love her.
The Norman Mailer "don't f*** with me " reference is of course one of Leonard's poems. A joke
Margaret, if I remembered well some of Greg's posts about "Morning Glory", this song (I mean Lucy with...) refers to, well, snowin the sky with diamonds
In Lucinda's, or Lucy's, case, I think it's the same; I read her state is more or less connected with the substance from that line. And I must give to that one 
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
Mr. T...please read my post again. That was not the point I was making.Hmm, the thing is that Lucinda is really good as the mentioned authors (I'd dare to say even better),
In any case, I bought Essence a long time ago on your recommendation and at present I cannot remember the name of a single song in it, although at that time I remember liking it. That's all I have to say. I'm not exaggerating...I really mean that.
p.s. I like Mr. Mailer's little monologue.
For one thing its really funny and also there is a certain attraction about people who are able to speak their minds without a care of whether it would make enemies or win friends. Like our friend Bee here (thats a compliment)Knowing a little of Mr. Dylan, I dare say he himself might appreciate it, or atleast he would if it werent about his own self.
I know, Kush, but I still think that Lucinda's statement, however it is to pretentious, sin't insult as it's Joni Mitchell's about Cohen and Dylan as being poor imitators.
Mailer: I agree with you, and I always wondered about that LC's poem. Maybe we should retype it here. I heard the version which says it was Leonard's joke (nad I read at least one of his statements where he mentions Mailer in positive light), but I am not so sure. There are playful poems in the same book about "my poor old Layton", and you immediatelly feel it's joke and it's warm friendly correspondence though the poems. But in this particular Mailer-poem, well, it's so offensive, so direct, so angry, that I really think there was something in literary generation what made young Leonard very, very mad about Mailer. And also, it is so strange to see LC in such angry mood - spite all his early poems, and Beatiful Losers and Flowers For Hitler - it is strange to see him so outraged about some guy. Why are we in Vietnam?
Mailer: I agree with you, and I always wondered about that LC's poem. Maybe we should retype it here. I heard the version which says it was Leonard's joke (nad I read at least one of his statements where he mentions Mailer in positive light), but I am not so sure. There are playful poems in the same book about "my poor old Layton", and you immediatelly feel it's joke and it's warm friendly correspondence though the poems. But in this particular Mailer-poem, well, it's so offensive, so direct, so angry, that I really think there was something in literary generation what made young Leonard very, very mad about Mailer. And also, it is so strange to see LC in such angry mood - spite all his early poems, and Beatiful Losers and Flowers For Hitler - it is strange to see him so outraged about some guy. Why are we in Vietnam?
Leonard Cohen Newswire / bookoflonging.com (retired) / leonardcohencroatia.com (retired)
oh my goodness people!i think this really just shows that everyone-even those who can write and play and perform reeeeeeealy good-are just as human as we are.they are alowed to be snotty nosed sons of bitches(or whatever it was)i havent read all of this link(goes on a bit,so i thought id add my two pennce as well!)
but,you know what,that doesnt mean that im not going to listen to dylan just because someone says they dont lik ehim.and im not going to stop thinking how awesome lucinda williams is just because she might have such a 'confidant'(prehaps self indulgent )way of looking at herself-i mena,maybe it just shows that shes more comfortable in who she is *shrugs shoulders*
and joni,really,there is no need to go around saying your dissappointed in cohen!please,i dont care if he's been influenced here and there by some great writers-its about taking in your surrounding and influences and creating somthing new.thats what i love about cohen,he takes words that i use each day,and makes something beautiful with them.
well,ive said my peace.
love,peaceand the ability for some uhmility(to all you 'great'songwriters out there!haha,only kidding
)
jemima
but,you know what,that doesnt mean that im not going to listen to dylan just because someone says they dont lik ehim.and im not going to stop thinking how awesome lucinda williams is just because she might have such a 'confidant'(prehaps self indulgent )way of looking at herself-i mena,maybe it just shows that shes more comfortable in who she is *shrugs shoulders*
and joni,really,there is no need to go around saying your dissappointed in cohen!please,i dont care if he's been influenced here and there by some great writers-its about taking in your surrounding and influences and creating somthing new.thats what i love about cohen,he takes words that i use each day,and makes something beautiful with them.
well,ive said my peace.
love,peaceand the ability for some uhmility(to all you 'great'songwriters out there!haha,only kidding
)jemima
how come you bother with my heart at all
-
Fljotsdale
- Posts: 800
- Joined: Sun Aug 07, 2005 1:27 am
- Location: Birmingham, UK
Lucinda is fabulous in concert the songs that we love on her cd's (those of us who are appreciative of Lucinda, that is) are incredibly charged with her vibrant and sensuous energy during her concerts, not to mention the palpable rapport she has with her audience, telling stories, sharing bits of her personal life, letting us in on her political/social leanings. Yes, she does imbibe something (whisky, I would guess - straight) from a little (big) disposable "glass" that she keeps sipping from in between songs.. the more she sips, the more relaxed she gets, the better she gets... but she doesn't try to hide it, and she's not pretentious about anything at all, nor snobbish. And she's absolutely right... she IS up there with the best, and she recognizes it. Why not beat your own drum once in awhile. Those of you who have never seen Lucinda live but would (sort of) like to, she will be here (in DC) at the 9:30 Club on the 7th August. Her concert will be streamed live on NPR (National Public Radio) and accessible all around the world. http://www.npr.org/programs/asc/ Europeans will have to stay up late to catch it (or go to bed early and get up early).. but should be worth it. We saw Old 97's at 9:30 Club last fall, and it's a great venue. Lucinda is on tour now to promote her new live cd, a double, which is incredbly good. And aside from all that, I love it that she got kicked out of school for refusing to recite the Pledge of Allegiance. http://www.vh1.com/artists/az/williams_ ... /bio.jhtml
Bobbie
Bobbie
I couldnt really get hooked onto Essence (neither songwriting and singing seemed a little affected to my ears) and so did not try anything else by her. I think there is a song on Essence where she keeps wailing on and on lonely girl lonely girl lonely girl lonely girl... 
I do like her duet with Willie Nelson of 'Overtime' which is written by her. Its quite possible that I'm missing out on something good. I need new ears.
I do like her duet with Willie Nelson of 'Overtime' which is written by her. Its quite possible that I'm missing out on something good. I need new ears.
Maybe Lucinda isn't your thing, maybe the sorts of songs that are on Essence aren't, either. Yes or no, s'ok. I think it was you once, Kush, who reminded me that it's all just a matter of taste... (still haven't forgotten that) and actually, come to think of it, it was an earlier topic regarding Lucinda. Still.... she keeps coming up, doesn't she. I wonder why. Maybe you're right.. maybe you do need to listen with new ears. Or maybe you were right on in the first place, for your particular tastes (which seem to be great, from what I've read) :--) I know the song you mean, called Lonely Girls (track 1 on Essence) The lyrics are a little "surfacy" (I guess) (depending on if you've ever been a lonely girl) (or boy) and in fact, I was quite surprised when I read them just now (had to stand on a little ladder to get to the "W's" on the cd shelves, which was no small feat considering the Ouzo I had poured a bit earlier) Anyway... the lyrics go like this, verbatim, from the liner notes.
Lonely Girls
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Heavy Blankets, Heavy Blankets, Heavy Blankets
Cover Lonely Girls.
Sweet Sad songs, Sweet Sad Songs, Sweet Sad Songs,
Sung By Lonely Girls
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Pretty Hairdos, Pretty Hairdos, Pretty Hairdos,
Worn By Lonely Girls
Sparkly Rhinestones, Sparkly Rhinestones, Sparkly Rhinestones
Shine On Lonely Girls
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
I Oughta Know, I oughta know, I oughta know
About Lonely Girls.
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls. Lonely Girls
_______________
(I think it reminds me a little bit, in a different yet familiar way, of Janis Ian's song, from 1970something"At Seventeen").
What I meant when I said that I was a little (very much) surprised when I read the lyrics in the liner notes just now.. I was surprised that theyaren't more complicated, more profound, because to my ears, when Lucinda sings these words, they sound like so much more, like all there is, ever was, all there ever will be, and the song makes you (me) reel with feeling and emotion. How does she do that with such simple words?? I wonder. I have to admit that I'm disappointed I absolutely cannot quote something to you so deep that it would take a lifetime to decipher it (like with LC's stuff) - but is that the beauty in it after all, that we can just relax and know that it's just as it says it is... nothing to figure out.. " no "what did she mean by that?". As many times as I've heard that song, and as many times as I've sung along to it, I'm surprised right now at the stark bareness of the lyrics - there's absolutely nothing to wonder about. I guess it must be her presence, her style, the feeling she imparts that makes it seem like so much more. And Essence isn't even a live record...
Dig out that cd you bought so many years ago, and listen with "new ears". If you still don't like it... so what.. ? :--)
She plays a great guitar, too...
B
[/i]
Lonely Girls
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Heavy Blankets, Heavy Blankets, Heavy Blankets
Cover Lonely Girls.
Sweet Sad songs, Sweet Sad Songs, Sweet Sad Songs,
Sung By Lonely Girls
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Pretty Hairdos, Pretty Hairdos, Pretty Hairdos,
Worn By Lonely Girls
Sparkly Rhinestones, Sparkly Rhinestones, Sparkly Rhinestones
Shine On Lonely Girls
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
I Oughta Know, I oughta know, I oughta know
About Lonely Girls.
Refrain
Lonely Girls, Lonely Girls
Lonely Girls. Lonely Girls
_______________
(I think it reminds me a little bit, in a different yet familiar way, of Janis Ian's song, from 1970something"At Seventeen").
What I meant when I said that I was a little (very much) surprised when I read the lyrics in the liner notes just now.. I was surprised that theyaren't more complicated, more profound, because to my ears, when Lucinda sings these words, they sound like so much more, like all there is, ever was, all there ever will be, and the song makes you (me) reel with feeling and emotion. How does she do that with such simple words?? I wonder. I have to admit that I'm disappointed I absolutely cannot quote something to you so deep that it would take a lifetime to decipher it (like with LC's stuff) - but is that the beauty in it after all, that we can just relax and know that it's just as it says it is... nothing to figure out.. " no "what did she mean by that?". As many times as I've heard that song, and as many times as I've sung along to it, I'm surprised right now at the stark bareness of the lyrics - there's absolutely nothing to wonder about. I guess it must be her presence, her style, the feeling she imparts that makes it seem like so much more. And Essence isn't even a live record...
Dig out that cd you bought so many years ago, and listen with "new ears". If you still don't like it... so what.. ? :--)
She plays a great guitar, too...
B
[/i]