Mysterious Leonard Cohen "1967 studio sessions" album - any information?

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therowdyman
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Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2024 3:14 am

Re: Mysterious Leonard Cohen "1967 studio sessions" album - any information?

Post by therowdyman »

Nothing left to do wrote: Tue Jan 30, 2024 5:24 pm
GolemZGLM wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2024 10:03 pm what's strange is the leak of the set doesn't seem to match this tracklist, so I'm wondering if someone retagged the set wrong, or if there's actually some difference here
the 10 CD list you have quoted in your post comprises 28 different songs with a total of 152 takes. The link above this list shows seven albums labelled 'Leonard Cohen 1967'. These are the same as the CDs 1, 2, 5, 6, 7, 8, and 9 in the 10 CD list. The CDs 3, 4, and 10 are not included in the album list.
The download offered generously by albumsshouldexist includes 22 different songs with a total of 106 takes. A close comparison between the number of takes for each song shows significant differences between the 10 CD version and the download (first number is the number of takes in the 10 CD version / second number ist the number of takes in the download):
- Anyone Can See (1 / 4)
- Avalanche (5 / 3)
- The Beach of Idios (1 / 0)
- Blessed Is the Memory (2 / 2)
- Come On Marianne (5 / 6)
- Dress Rehearsal Rag (0 / 1)
- Hey, That's No Way to Say Goodbye (17 / 12)
- Jewels on Your Shoulder (5 / 3)
- Lost Change (5 / 0)
- Love Calls you by Your Name (23 / 22)
- Love is the Item (1 / 0)
- Master Song (1 / 1)
- Middle of the Night (5 / 0)
- Nancy, Where Have You Been Sleeping (1 / 1)
- One of Us Cannot Be Wrong (11 / 12)
- Sing Another Song, Boys (2 / 0)
- Sisters of Mercy (9 / 4)
- So Long, Marianne (1 / 0)
- Splinter (1 / 0)
- Standing on the Stairs (0 / 6)
- Store Room (2 / 1)
- Stories of the Street (11 / 9)
- The Stranger (8 / 2)
- The Sun Is My Son (1 / 0)
- Suzanne (10 / 4)
- Teachers (9 / 3)
- Tonight Will Be Fine (5 / 2)
- Winter Lady (3 / 3)
- Winter Lady (Travelling Lady) (1 / 0)
- You Know Who I Am (6 / 2)
As you can see not only the number of takes differ, but furthermore some songs are only included in either the 10 CD version or the download. I must admit that up to now I haven't had the time to listen to the complete download to check whether any songs might be misidentified. It further does not help that in the download the takes seem to be renumbered and the recording date information is missing. Full clarification is only possible by close comparison of the download with the 10 CD version. If anybody can provide access (via PM) to the 10 CD version I would therefore be very grateful.
Some observations regarding the 106 tracks vs the 152 from the official 1967 set. I do believe these are from the Copyright album but mis-tagged. Listening to the takes as they've been tagged, and you can hear from the sonic differences in the placement of microphones and what mics they used (partially with Cohen's vocals and guitar), arrangements, EQ, different keys. It's clear that certain takes were recorded at different times.

* The track tagged as "Come On, Marianne [Early Version of So Long, Marianne] [Take 6]" has the lyrics "So Long, Marianne" instead of "Come On". It's most likely "So Long, Marianne (Take 5) (17 Oct Session)".

* Anything from the 8 Sept 1967 Session is pretty easy to pick, as they all have the same arrangement with Kaleidoscope backing on electric bass and guitar, drums and organ.

* With what we know about the differences in production styles of John Hammond and John Simon, this can be used as a guide to pick out where a record fits in relation to the official 1967 track list. For example, the 8 September sessions with Kaleidoscope were when John Hammond was still the producer. October 11th sounds is most like when John Simon came onto the project. The harpsichord on "One of Us Cannot Be Wrong" [Take 1] sounds like the 1960s pop arrangements from Simon. Similar is the strings on "Sisters of Mercy [Take 1]" and the jazz-pop strings and wind instruments on "Hey, That's No Way To Say Goodbye" [Take 8] :shock:

* I think some of those tracks listed as "Anyone Can See" are actually "Sing Another Song, Boys" takes. Although that doesn't explain the additional "Anyone Can See" that the 106 set has that the official one doesn't

* "Standing on the Stairs" is an alternate title for "In The Middle Of The Night".

* Dress Rehearsal Rag [Take 1] sounds similar to the mix featured on the 2007 version of Songs of Love and Hate. That was listed on the CD liner notes as being from the Songs from a Room sessions with Bob Johnston (October 1968).

* "I've Been Through All Your Clothes" is "The Sun Is My Son".

If there were running times for the official 1967 version, that would help to match the dates from the 106 tracks set. An album like Songs of had such an interesting and rocky production history, it would be better to listen to these tracks in their correct chronological order.

It goes without saying that this would make a killer boxset!
Last edited by therowdyman on Thu Feb 01, 2024 6:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
Nothing left to do
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2024 7:18 pm

Re: Mysterious Leonard Cohen "1967 studio sessions" album - any information?

Post by Nothing left to do »

therowdyman wrote: Thu Feb 01, 2024 4:34 am Some observations regarding the 106 tracks vs the 152 from the official 1967 set. I do believe these are from the Copyright album but mis-tagged. Listening to the takes as they've been tagged, and you can hear from the sonic differences in the placement of microphones and what mics they used (partially with Cohen's vocals and guitar), arrangements, EQ, different keys. It's clear that certain takes were recorded at different times.
Thanks for your valuable and helpful comments. I have listened in the meantime to a large part of these studio outtakes and have the following remarks. Two takes each of the following songs appear to be identical as they not only have the same track length and file size but also sound vitually identical:
- Come On, Marianne (takes 4 and 5)
- Hey, That's No Way to Say Goodbye (takes 3 and 4)
- I've Been Through All Your Clothes (takes 1 and 2)
- Love Calls You by Your Name (takes 12 and 13)
- One of Us Cannot Be Wrong (takes 6 and 7)
- Standing on the Stairs (takes 1 and 2)
- Suzanne (takes 3 and 4).
The track tagged as "Come On, Marianne [Early Version of So Long, Marianne] [Take 6]" has the lyrics "So Long, Marianne" instead of "Come On". It's most likely "So Long, Marianne (Take 5) (17 Oct Session)".
I agree that take 6 of 'Come On, Marianne' is actually 'So Long, Marianne'. Takes 4 and 5 of 'Come On, Marianne' are the same. Both takes have exactly the same comment by John Hammond at the end.
* Anything from the 8 Sept 1967 Session is pretty easy to pick, as they all have the same arrangement with Kaleidoscope backing on electric bass and guitar, drums and organ.
According to the 10 CD list the following nine songs were recorded on September 8, 1967:
- Store Room (2 takes)
- Blessed Is the Memory (2 takes)
- Winter Lady (3 takes)
- Tonight Will Be Fine (2 takes)
Eight of them are included in the download and these have indeed a similar sound. Do you know whether Kaleidoscope was used only on one date as the backing band? Is there any source for this? Additionally, is in any on the books on Cohen a detailed analysis of the 1967 studio sessions?
* With what we know about the differences in production styles of John Hammond and John Simon, this can be used as a guide to pick out where a record fits in relation to the official 1967 track list. For example, the 8 September sessions with Kaleidoscope were when John Hammond was still the producer. October 11th sounds is most like when John Simon came onto the project.
This would mean that all sessions up to September 8 were produced by John Hammond and all sessions from October 11 were produced by John Simon. I tried to find a verification for this but couldn't find anything-
* I think some of those tracks listed as "Anyone Can See" are actually "Sing Another Song, Boys" takes. Although that doesn't explain the additional "Anyone Can See" that the 106 set has that the official one doesn't
The lyrics of 'Anyone Can See' are clearly an early version of 'Sing Another Song, Boys'. However the lyrics of all four versions of this song contain the title 'Anyone Can See' but not 'Sing Another Song, Boys'. Therefore I am not sure whether some of these are actually 'Sing Another Song, Boys'.
* "Standing on the Stairs" is an alternate title for "In The Middle Of The Night".
I agree as both titles are part of the song lyrics.
* Dress Rehearsal Rag [Take 1] sounds similar to the mix featured on the 2007 version of Songs of Love and Hate. That was listed on the CD liner notes as being from the Songs from a Room sessions with Bob Johnston (October 1968).
I agree.
* "I've Been Through All Your Clothes" is "The Sun Is My Son".
I agree as both titles are part of the song lyrics.
If there were running times for the official 1967 version, that would help to match the dates from the 106 tracks set. An album like Songs of had such an interesting and rocky production history, it would be better to listen to these tracks in their correct chronological order.

It goes without saying that this would make a killer boxset!
Individual track times could be a great help to try to reorder the tracks chronologically as this is the preferable way to listen to them. As 'albumsshouldexist' has stated that the 106 tracks are the complete 1967 studio sessions it remains open whether an official release with the 152 songs according to the 10 CD list ever existed. If anyone can help to clarify this it would be greatly appreciated.
I also support an official release of these sessions in boxset.
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