The Flame-discussion thread

Everything about Leonard Cohen's new book
The Brucester
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Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby The Brucester » Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:24 pm

Thank you, B4real. Much appreciated.

Regarding the prose: "Only left-handers are in their right mind".....I happen to be left handed !!!

But (my lady friend) Julie will tell you I haven't been in my right mind ever since she met me. :lol:
(10 years together)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3zdE8bliGI

"Tom Dooley" sung by The Kingston Trio
>>> Dave Guard + Bob Shane + Nick Reynolds {song intro} <<<
lead singer: Bob Shane, banjo (aka: "The Hawaiian Elvis")
TV host: Milton Berle (top comedian back then)

- Brucester (Montreal, QC, Canada)

ps: Leonard Cohen was a member of the Zeta Beta Tau (ZBT) Fraternity while he was attending McGill University.
Two things "frat guys" did at ZBT was (1) chase girls, and (2) listen to Kingston Trio records.
Leonard complained that the girls ran away too fast and he was much too slow running after them.
So he spent most of his time listening to records !!!
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B4real
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Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby B4real » Sun Feb 17, 2019 6:02 am

Hi Brucester,
Interesting connection between Leonard and Tom Dooley. I remember that song from my childhood ;-)

And I forgot to mention another connection with Elvis and Leonard - they both sang Tennessee Waltz.
LC's additional verse of it is not included with Elvis here but he does sing some ad lib words :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEYABX6aSxk

Now I don’t want to clutter up this thread with non-Flame or non-LC stuff so here’s my left handed reply and some brainy “There is a war between the left and right” fun here –
https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... 48#p371048
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
The Brucester
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Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:24 am
Location: Montreal : the land of LC

Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby The Brucester » Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:57 pm

Thank you very much for your post, B4Real.
I really appreciate it.

For the record (no pun intended) I enjoy ALL your posts !!! :D

ps: Jesse Winchester who wrote "Brand New Tennessee Waltz" ~ was an American who ran off to Montreal, Canada, to avoid being drafted. Jesse was very much opposed to the Viet-Nam war, and often performed songs at our local Montreal coffee houses (ie: New Penelope / The Back Door / The Matter of Opinon).

Rumours have it that Jesse Winchester + Leonard Cohen crossed paths many times, but I've got no details about their meetings or what they discussed.
If or when I get more info, I'll be happy to share it on this Forum.

"Brand New Tennessee Waltz" (1972) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APirVxOpZFk

Here' another Jesse Winchester song I hope you enjoy...
"All Of Your Stories" (1972) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WY3u_JW4_I

- Brucester (Montreal, QC, Canada)
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B4real
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Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby B4real » Sat Feb 23, 2019 5:48 am

Thanks Brucester!

I had never heard of Jesse Winchester before and I really like this song -
The Brucester wrote:
Fri Feb 22, 2019 11:57 pm
Here' another Jesse Winchester song I hope you enjoy...
"All Of Your Stories" (1972) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WY3u_JW4_I
...and how could I possibly forget that both Leonard and Elvis sang Silent Night :razz:
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
The Brucester
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:24 am
Location: Montreal : the land of LC

Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby The Brucester » Sat Feb 23, 2019 9:57 am

You're welcome, B4Real.

And while on the subject of Leonard + Elvis both singing "Silent Night".....
have you ever heard this version before?
(gives me the chills) :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SgromntkNs

Simon & Garfunkel (rel: 1966/Columbia Records)
Note the actual "7 o'clock Newscast" (from an American radio station)

ps: Also loved your latest post on the thread: Music You're Listening To
=> Absolutely Excellent Amigo !!! :D

- Brucester (Montreal, QC, Canada)
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B4real
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Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby B4real » Sun Feb 24, 2019 1:31 am

Brucester, I thought I would reply here in the Other Music thread.
https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... 15&t=38421
I'm just trying not clog up this thread with non-Flame things.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
The Brucester
Posts: 30
Joined: Wed Feb 06, 2019 5:24 am
Location: Montreal : the land of LC

Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby The Brucester » Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:26 pm

Thank you, B4real:

Speaking of "The Flame".....

=> Thanks to you and to everybody on this LEONARD COHEN discussion forum,
the flame (which shines so very bright) will keep on burning !!! :D

- Brucester (Montreal, QC, Canada)
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Joe Way
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Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby Joe Way » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:09 pm

I'm just catching up as I've been traveling for over a month. B4real and Mat, really enjoyed your comments (as I always do). It's been a while since I've looked through The Flame and I will again and make a few comments of my own.

Brucester, I was a huge Kingston Trio fan growing up and in many ways, you could say they started me on the journey toward Leonard so thank you very much for your insights into the relationships between these diverse musicians. I was also a great fan of Jesse Winchester (as is Roscoe Beck-Leonard's recent bass player). Thanks very much and welcome to the Forum.

Joe
"Say a prayer for the cowboy..."
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mat james
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Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby mat james » Fri May 24, 2019 5:38 am

Hi Joe and All,
Things have quietened down a bit on this thread, so I will add my opinion to the mix.
I want to be blunt. I want to point out that this book The Flame is as much about Cruz as it is about Cohen.
It oozes "Dark Night" and "Oh Living Flame of Love" by Cruz
...and in my opinion Leonard should have publicly acknowledged this...But he didn't!
Why was he so shy on this point?
I love Leonard and yet I still worry about this ...silence...)


The Lucky Night poem, The Flame.
This song/poem by Leonard Cohen in his book The Flame, is not an original poem, but rather an original translation of a well known poem by Saint John of the Cross, Dark Night (of the soul).
Cohen has added a verse, verse 5, and by doing this has become one with that great Spanish Mystic.

I suggest, without reserve, that Saint John of the Cross (San Juan de la Cruz) was Cohen's Mystical Mentor. Much of his poetry/song is heavily influenced by this 16th Century Spanish Poet's mystic "position" as I have suggested often in past postings.

Below is an extract from a piece I wrote on "The Lucky Night!!!!" in the poetry threads.


Verse 5 (extract from The Lucky Night".

Cruz' Dark Night is an 8 verse poem.
Cohen’s “The Lucky Night!!!” is a 9 verse poem.
With 4 verses above and 4 verses below, Cohen places his own totally original verse smack in the middle of his translation as verse 5.
He makes it his poem too.
Interestingly, Cruz wrote about 500 pages explaining the meaning of the first 3 verses of his poem, The Dark Night…and he only got to the end of verse 3! After that there are no more records of how he explained the remaining 5 of the 8 verses. It is odd, but he wrote 2 different books and both books, though very different, only explain the meaning up to the end of verse 3…
Cohen has added his genius to the mix and done a bit of his own explaining by adding that additional 5th verse:

“And then the night commands me
To enter in her side
And be as Adam is to Eve
Before they need divide”

So Cohen has joined Cruz in Cruz' poem; and in a zen-sense has become Cruz, as the archer becomes the arrow.

It is Cohen’s way of saying, perhaps, that the Lovers metaphor (Lover and Beloved) went back to the first couple in his tradition (Genesis); to the original couple when not yet separated, when Eve was yet to be created from Adam's rib.
In this 5th stanza, Cohen makes Eve, metaphorically speaking, Adam’s soul. He is suggesting to Jacob, Solomon and Cruz and anyone else interested (his fans, perhaps) to go back even farther in their Biblical Landscape; right back to the beginning in Eden where the Hebrew G~d caused the soul to separate from Adam. (Eve was made from Adam's rib) Cohen is suggesting to me that that soul/lovers-metaphor goes right back to the beginning…so he adds this new stanza, verse 5, to explain this cognition of his.

( As an aside or an extension; those Psychologists Carl Jung and Eric Neumann would no doubt argue that this then makes the Adam and Eve story a tale of the coming of consciousness, where ego separates from the unconscious via the heart (beneath the rib)..."matters of the heart"... :D )

Cohen sang, “I’m the little Jew who wrote the Bible” and in a way he may be saying that now he has understood this process of metaphors and parables and such,contemplating the Biblical Stories on this level, he feels at one with all the authors of his tribal text; both the Jewish/Hebrew authors (and some Buddhist, Hindu and Christian authors also), and these Spanish Mystics above.
...his final words to a friend in an email text, “Blessed are the peace makers”…a Jesus quote, as I understand it.
"Blessed are the peace-makers"...
and the next line is... "for they shall see G~d"...

Perhaps he was after all (with rib healed and "Beloved and Lover" re-united) “the little Jew who wrote the Bible”.... with his own Eve (his soul) whispering "sweetly" to him of her divine adventures...

... while tucked in again, safely, back beside his heart...

...I hope so...
O Living Flame of Love...

Mat James



Note:
The above piece is an edited extract from the thread linked below.
(https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... 10&t=38376)
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.
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mat james
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Re: The Flame-discussion thread

Postby mat james » Tue Oct 08, 2019 4:32 am

why is it so lonesome
at this table
this Wilderness?

Is it over now
the water
and the Wine?
"Without light or guide, save that which burned in my heart." San Juan de la Cruz.

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