How do you say "Leonard Cohen"?

[leonardmtl]

Yes, Arlene...about one-third left Montreal, mostly under 50 years old, to start over again. The bulk went to your hometown and Ottawa, and the rest out to Sheila (Imaginary Friend) in Vancouver.

I ended up in Cambridge....


The cycle of life is now complete ...we are all immigrants ......just like our grandparents!

Not that its important, because the results are the same, but the Exodus actually began in the late 60's with the Passage of Bill 101, legalizing the dominance of the French languagge, the FLQ ( Front de Liberation de Quebec) murder of Pierre LaPorte, Quebec Minister of Justice , explosives being placed in mailboxes in Westmount (the English area where Leonard grew up) and Prime Minister Trudeau mobiliizing the Canadian Army to stabilize Quebec. Of course, Charles de Gaulle, President of France didn't help when , in a speech made during a visit to Quebec in 1967, he applauded the slogan of FLQ "Vive Le Quebec Libre" ...Long Live Free Quebec!

As you can see...... a modest interest in Canadian history!

Leonard from Montreal

[sturgess66]

Leonard - military troops in Ottawa - the nation's capital - as well as in the Province of Quebec.

"The October Crisis" - in October 1970 Governor General Roland Mitchner - at the request of Prime Minister Trudeau - invoked the War Measures Act as a result of the FLQ crisis. And at the same time, military troops were deployed in the Province of Quebec, but also in Ottawa, the nations capitol, in accordance with the National Defense Act. I was there - and it was mighty scary to see tanks in the street of Ottawa. But then - so were the events with the FLQ (scary).

And - haha - I remember the Charles de Gaulle incident as well - the summer of the first landing of man on the moon. I think he was told that Canadians did not need to be liberated, and his visit was cut short and he went home.

I am now in Philadelphia but that has nothing to do with either of these events.

[seadove]

SEADOVE: In the "Lee - Oh - naard" pronunciation, which syllable would be accented?

Accented? In what language? If in English then I think the "Lee".

[brightnow]

Leonard - military troops in Ottawa - the nation's capital - as well as in the Province of Quebec.

"The October Crisis" - in October 1970 Governor General Roland Mitchner - at the request of Prime Minister Trudeau - invoked the War Measures Act as a result of the FLQ crisis. And at the same time, military troops were deployed in the Province of Quebec, but also in Ottawa, the nations capitol, in accordance with the National Defense Act. I was there - and it was mighty scary to see tanks in the street of Ottawa. But then - so were the events with the FLQ (scary).

And - haha - I remember the Charles de Gaulle incident as well - the summer of the first landing of man on the moon. I think he was told that Canadians did not need to be liberated, and his visit was cut short and he went home.

I am now in Philadelphia but that has nothing to do with either of these events.

Interesting piece of Canadian history. So were actions of the FLQ the cause for the exodus from Montreal of the younger portion of the Jewish community that Leonard mentioned?

[leonardmtl]

Avi,

The English inhabitants of Montreal ( not just the Jewish population) left Montreal in droves because there was a perception that there were increasingly less opportunities, and a diminished sense of dignity. There was the daily debate in local media whether to separate Quebec from the rest of Canada to preserve the French culture, and "overturn centuries of English dominance". This inflamed the extremists, with intermittant bombings, murders, the tanks in the streets etc.

On a practical basis, this meant there were few job openings for Anglophiles, typically made on a preferential basis to the French-speaking population. In a more subtle way, there was an undercurrent in dealing across cultural lines, e.g. the experience of shopping in a downtown Montreal department store, where a French-speaking clerk would not be responsive unless spoken to in French.

This cultural bias was officially reinforced by the Quebec Legislature which passed Bill !01, mandating the use of French in all aspects of life......even requiring menus in restaurents frequented by an English speaking clientele be in French , followed by English in smaller letters!

The tea leaves were easily read.

leonard from Montreal

[Tchocolatl]

Brigthnow, if you want an interesting bit of History about this period, I suggest that you reat this instead :

http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/ ... RTA0006619

I wish to put straight that there was a real English dominance in Montréal at a certain time. That was not "an English dominance" at all. The language of the business was English, and even if a French Canadian was speaking a perfect English, he was never allowed to higher positions in an enterprise and he was less paid. In general the atmosphere of the town was lead by a very out-of-date Britain colonial attitude (that even real Britains of the time did not have), to the point that French Canadians were told blantly to "speak white" by many racist protagonists in the most disgusting manner whenever and wherever English was not used to communicate (this happened to me on the street when a was a young girl once), and all this, even though the Constitution of Canada recognized the two nations equally. There was (and I dare say, there is) something called the two solitudes between these two nations that prevents them to truly live in partnership.

The "murders" by the FLQ was in fact an only dead that happened by accident. Another fact is : the vast majority of Quebeckers never approuved the use of violence, the FLQ was only a small gang of few hot heads. In the eyes of many, an intervention of the army was not necessary.

I want to stress that anybody who was not French intolerant, and even sometimes if he was, had lived long and prosper in Québec during and after the Quiet Revolution, in one of the safest and peaceful environment in the world, and this, even though the French language were not perfectly mastered, or even not spoken at all by such an individual, and this is still true today. I want to stress that Montréal is, in fact, the only real bilingual city of this bilingual country.

I'm sure that I can say without lying that the Montreal of the books of Leonard Cohen does not exist anymore, as well as the Montreal described by leonardmtl. As well as the whole world has changed over the years and is changing continually.

I understand that some people may stay stuck with their own subjective truth, though, that they are fully free to do so, and this is not what I was questionning here.

[Darling]

Leonardmtl, I don't even know where to start, so I won't especially since this is not the political section and I'm quite tired of this old debate.

Brightnow: If you are interested in another point of view, you might want to check these:

http://angryfrenchguy.com/2008/02/19/bi ... -sign-law/
http://angryfrenchguy.com/tag/anglos/

There are even two posts about Leonard Cohen:
http://angryfrenchguy.com/2008/06/14/ch ... ard-cohen/
http://angryfrenchguy.com/2008/01/28/le ... quebecois/

Hello Tchocolatl!

BTW, as most Quebec francophones, I just pronounce Leonard Cohen in French: Lay-o-nar Co-enn when speaking French (don't see anything political there, it's not), and in English when speaking English in which case I try to pronounce it like he does (though sometimes I forget the 'h')

[Tchocolatl]

Allo Darling,

Les dialogues de sourds fatiguent tout le monde. Indeed.

Did you ever read the poem French and English by a young Leonard Cohen? He was not a tender romantic poet, as often at that time, ironing sharp metallic lines. It was well before the zen stuff.

I think you are fools to speak French
It is a language which invites the mind
to rebel against itself causing inflamed ideas
grotesque postures and a theoritical approach
to common body functions. It ordains the soul
in a tacky priesthood devoted to the salvation
of a failed erection. It is the language
of cancer as it annexes the spirit and
installs a tumour in every honeycomb
Between the rotten teeth of French are incubated
the pettiest notions of destiny and the shabbiest
versions of glory and the dreariest dogma of change
ever to pollute the simplicity of human action
French is a carnival mirror in which the
brachycephalic idiot is affirmed and encouraged
to compose a manifesto on the destruction of the sideshow

I think you are fools to speak English
I know what you are thinking when you speak English
You are thinking piggy English thoughts
you sterilized swine of a language that has no genitals
You are peepee and kaka and nothing else
and therefore the lovers die in all your songs
You can't fool me you cradle of urine
where Jesus Christ was finally put to sleep
and even the bowels of Satan cannot find
a decent place to stink in your flat rhythms
of ambition and disease
English, I know you, you are frightened by saliva
your adventure is the glass bricks of sociology
you are German with a licence to kill
I hate you but it is not in English
I love you but it is not in French
I speak to the devil but it is not about your punishment
I speak to the table but it is not about your plan
I kneel between the legs of the moon
in a vehicle of perfect stuttering
and you dare to interview me on the matter
of your loathsome destinies
you poor boobies of the north
who have set out for heaven with your mouths on fire
Surrender now surrender to each other
your loveliest useless aspects
and live with me in this and other voices
like the wind harps you were meant to be
Come and sleep in the mother tongue
and be awakened by a virgin
(O dead-hearted turds of particular speech)
be awakened by a virgin
into a sovereign state of common grace.



And before being told that I am off topic : I pronounce Leonard Cohen with delight.