A sad day for Leonard

USA and Canada (April 1 - June 4, 2009). Special concert for fans in NYC (February 19). Concert reports, set lists, photos, media coverage, multimedia links, recollections...
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leonardmtl
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A sad day for Leonard

Post by leonardmtl » Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:23 am

I learned in the Wall Street Journal today that Leonard's Concert Promotor, AEG Live, in conjunction with Ticketmaster, is actively scalping concert tickets with/for artists playing its venues ( third paragraph below)

While the article does not mention Leonnard or say if Leonard was involved in this kind of scam, given AEG's practices, it is probably naive to think AEG is not involved or participating in scalped tickets on the LC World Tour.

It is counter-intuitive that Leonard participates in this scam.

He deserves better from his tour promotor.

I am very sorry to post this article

Leonard from Montreal...same name...same town...no Golden Voice






Concert Tickets Get Set Aside, Marked Up by Artists, Managers Article

By ETHAN SMITH
Less than a minute after tickets for last August's Neil Diamond concerts at New York's Madison Square Garden went on sale, more than 100 seats were available for hundreds of dollars more than their normal face value on premium-ticket site TicketExchange.com. The seller? Neil Diamond.

Ticket reselling -- also known as scalping -- is an estimated $3 billion-a-year business in which professional brokers buy seats with the hope of flipping them to the public at a hefty markup.

In the case of the Neil Diamond concerts, however, the source of the higher-priced tickets was the singer, working with Ticketmaster Entertainment Inc., which owns TicketExchange, and concert promoter AEG Live. Ticketmaster's former and current chief executives, one of whom is Mr. Diamond's personal manager, have acknowledged the arrangement, as has a person familiar with AEG Live, which is owned by Denver-based Anschutz Corp.

Selling premium-priced tickets on TicketExchange, priced and presented as resales by fans, is a practice used by many other top performers, according to people in the industry. Joseph Freeman, Ticketmaster's senior vice president for legal affairs, says that the company's "Marketplace" pages only rarely list tickets offered by fans.

The vast majority of tickets are sold by the artists and their promoters with the cooperation of Ticketmaster. In fact, he says that for any concert to which Ticketmaster carries so-called platinum seats, the Marketplace sells only artist-sanctioned tickets, not those resold by fans.
We're all on one road....we're only passing through....

1967 Montreal / 2008 Toronto/ 2009 New York Beacon /Boston 2x /New York MSG / Chelsea Hotel Plaque Celebration /San Jose / 2010 Las Vegas 2x / 2012 Montreal 2x /Boston 2x
imaginary friend
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by imaginary friend » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:33 am

Wow, this is upsetting news.

But is there a competitive alternative (to AEG), that doesn't work with Ticketmaster? If the promoter, (say AEG or Live Nation) is in bed with Ticketmaster, artists may have to sign agreements that bind them to practices they would not instigate of their own accord.

I can't believe that Leonard would condone tickets scalped at $1,200+. My understanding is that Leonard makes a percentage of the face value on tickets only, not on the jacked-up fees. Is that assumption wrong?
da2008
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by da2008 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:35 am

this really has to stop. people awaken to the reality of buying concert tickets in our day and age. i go to 50+ concerts and guess what? same story all the time. nothing to do with LC please.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by da2008 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:46 am

This is actually a good thread, don't get me wrong, but the amount of these on the board is alarming...
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by jonathon » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:24 am

I saw that article in the Wall Street Journal and it is one of the first media reports that officially 'outs' promoters and artists for the scalping of their own tickets through Ticketmaster TicketExchange and/or Marketplace.

I as well as others in this forum have been making the same claims in earlier posts... some of which were removed.

For many of LC's shows for which tickets have been sold on Ticketmaster, the TicketExchange and marketplace facilities have been used to sell outrageously priced tickets. I live in Ottawa ON and the Ticketmaster Marketplace option was quietly taken down a few days ago, possibly due to media pressure, and many of the tickets that had been up for sale at ridiculous prices have been slowly released into the Ticketmaster.ca inventory at the 'regular' $250 price. I scored a $250 front row single seat for the May 26th Ottawa show on Wednesday morning... the EXACT SAME SEAT that I had seen listed on Ticketmaster Marketplace for over $500 only a few days ago.

The Wall Street Journal article is accurate and long overdue and implicates any artist who has 'Platinum' or 'Premium' seats for their shows up for sale using the Ticketmaster TicketExchange or Marketplace facility. LC is one of them and joins a long list of major artists who uses this service to maximize their ticket sales revenue.

All the best.
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Iconoclastic_Bitch
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by Iconoclastic_Bitch » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:24 am

I don't know exactly what's going on with Ticketmaster but something is definitely fishy, and unfair. I was first in line last week at a Ticketmaster retail outlet and bought my seats as soon as they went on sale, I ended up in row 9 on the floor. The couple after me who bought tickets within the first couple of minutes of them going on sale ended up in row 30 on the floor. I talked with several people who were after me in the line and they got pretty good seats, but not fantastic.


Then tonight I checked ticket availability for a friend and row 27 on the floor is available. What gives? That makes no sense at all. Tickets went on sale NINE days ago. I've been checking periodically since then and there were fairly good seats left, but certainly none on the floor. It doesn't make any sense to me, something is definitely off. What I've heard is that they don't always distribute the best available all at once, that they hold on to them for a while in the hopes of selling off the seats in the nosebleeds. Maybe so that it seems like the concert is more in demand? That doesn't really make much sense to me either.

I've never really had a problem with Ticketmaster before, but I'm swiftly beginning to dislike them.
Leonard Cohen is my soulmate.
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Mabeanie1
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by Mabeanie1 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:19 pm

The attached article from today's edition of The Times refers to AEG's activities in relation to the Michael Jackson dates at London's O2:

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/ ... 891378.ece

"Fans desperate to see Michael Jackson’s comeback performances could have to pay more than ten times the face value of the tickets after the shows’ promoters struck a secret deal to sell the best seats at vastly inflated prices, The Times has learnt.

AEG Live, the company behind the concerts, has agreed with Viagogo, an online ticket reseller, to sell hundreds of so-called premium tickets for each performance at the 17,000-capacity O2 arena, in East London, at about £500 each, compared with their face value of between £50 and £75.

The move means that both AEG Live and Viagogo stand to make huge extra financial returns, while reducing the availability and standard of seats to those fans trying to buy seats through the official, “primary” route, via the Ticketmaster website.

About 10,000 tickets for each of the ten concerts announced last week went on sale yesterday morning on Ticketmaster to fans who had registered their interest on Jackson’s website. However, demand was so high that the website crashed, leading the promoters to announce another 20 dates — which also quickly sold out. It is thought that nearly 300,000 seats have been sold so far. The remaining tickets for each show will go on sale tomorrow.

But The Times understands that outside the official sale of the tickets, AEG Live approached secondary ticketing companies — which allow people to resell tickets to sporting and music events — offering to provide them directly with between 500 and 1,000 tickets for each performance.

It is thought that AEG Live offered the tickets on the understanding that they were sold at about £500 each, with 80 per cent of the revenue returning to AEG Live and the secondary ticketing company taking the remaining 20 per cent.

Last night tickets for seats closest to the stage were on sale on Viagogo for thousands of pounds. Other seats in prime locations seemed to be on sale at surprisingly uniform rates, with many priced at £418 and £659.

AEG Live did not deny its links to Viagogo. The company previously said in a statement: “In an effort to ensure fans are able to purchase premium tickets and exchange tickets directly with other fans, AEG Live has entered into an agreement with Viagogo. The online site allows people to buy and sell live event tickets in a safe and guaranteed way.”

A source close to AEG Live said: “This is the hottest ticket of the decade. To suggest that there won’t be a premium market is unrealistic. We want to make sure it is done properly and fans are not buying the tickets in some dodgy back alley. This is only a small minority of tickets. The aim all along has been to make sure that the majority of the arena is filled with real fans. There are systems in place to make sure people cannot buy multiple tickets and sell them on.”

Concert promoters have previously been against the secondary ticketing companies, which they accuse of promoting touting and depriving the live music industry of income.

AEG Live could face censure from the Concert Promoters Association, of which it is a member, if it is judged to have brought the organisation into disrepute through its actions.

Last month the Government announced a consultation into ticket touting and urged concert organisers to be innovative and come up with new ways of preventing touts from making money from selling on tickets."


It seems everyone accepts that secondary markets are a fact of life and all want a piece of the action.

Wendy
Last edited by Mabeanie1 on Thu Mar 12, 2009 6:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by jarkko » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:27 pm

Just a short note (I'm at clients right now): these articles don't deal with Leonard. Don't draw wrong conclusions! We will get more info later today!
1988, 1993: Helsinki||2008: Manchester|Oslo|London O2|Berlin|Helsinki|London RAH|| 2009: New York Beacon|Berlin|Venice|Barcelona|Las Vegas|San José||2010: Salzburg|Helsinki|Gent|Bratislava|Las Vegas|| 2012: Gent|Helsinki|Verona|| 2013: New York|Pula|Oslo|||
da2008
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by da2008 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:29 pm

Just want to point out that unless you are privy to the terms of the contract between Leonard's management and the concert promoters you could not make any judgement on this issue. Artists are paid in a variety of ways and not always on the percentage of ticket sales (the most popular alternative being a flat guarantee). Regardless of this, if the artist decides to sell his allocation of seats at a premium it's fine by me. This same artist had already allocated enough seats for his fans through a presale so I don't see what the problem is. If you prefer to relentlessly dig up some dirt then fine, but I really couldn't understand your motivation. I would repeat this again - it seems like 95% of people on this board don't usually go to concerts anymore or they would know the pains of getting tickets to see their favourite artists. Be organised, be on time, know what you do and you'll have your tickets. If you're out of luck - try again. If nothing - so be it, something will work out. Never pay scalpers though. They don't deserve your money. Peace.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by da2008 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:37 pm

PS I really wonder what this board used to be like before Leonard started touring. Even last year it seemed like an extremely positive place to visit, but ever after the Beacon announcement there's just hundreds of users who join to vent. Again, this isn't directed at the thread starter, who is a great contributor to this forum, but just an overall observation. So sad. I hope this will all recede after the tour actually begins.
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leonardmtl
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by leonardmtl » Thu Mar 12, 2009 5:00 pm

Thanks for the compliment, da2008. We all believe the Forum is a great place to hang out and share interests, opimions, emotions,information etc. about Leonard.

As far as the newbies, particularly those changing group behavior, we are getting both kinds. Great newbies (Box of Rain ) but too many whiners. Sadly, a microcosm of the world, But,you know, with the LC Tour as nirvana, I'd put up with a lot of that stuff.

Peace.

Leonard from Montreal...same name..same town..no Golden Voice.
We're all on one road....we're only passing through....

1967 Montreal / 2008 Toronto/ 2009 New York Beacon /Boston 2x /New York MSG / Chelsea Hotel Plaque Celebration /San Jose / 2010 Las Vegas 2x / 2012 Montreal 2x /Boston 2x
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by pizmo » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:12 pm

da2008,

Forgive me for not wanting to share your pint of Kool Aid. One can enjoy an artist and still be upset with tactics employed on their behalf or for their benefit. You state with clarity "don't buy from scalpers." I agree for the most part. I guess its hard to take that with growing frequency, the artist and scalper are one and the same. The tour promoter, e.g., AEGLive, is clearly involved in scams of the type being discussed. Perhaps Leonard benefits, perhaps he doesn't. No matter, the scam hurts fans and is an affront to those of us who actually follow the rules. In the case of the LC concert pre-sale in Chicago, it was obvious that tickets were being made available through StubHub (similar to Viagogo) and available for distribution against the pre-sale rules. Where did these excellent seats come from? How could professional ticket sellers (as referred to by StubHub's managment) get their hands on them, especially when bona fide purchasers had to pick them up in person the night of the show.

As Billy Bragg stated, there is power in a union. Perhaps the forum, ostensibly a union of fair minded people, can stand together and seek to hold folks accountable for outlandish anti-consumer practices. Damn it man, I don't like being taken, even for the sake of art. For the love of a woman, perhaps.
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by UrPal » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:33 pm

The issue of ticketing and ticket touting seems a "current issue" for legislators in various parts of the world these days. The UK Government is presently undertaking a consulation which closes in early May of this year and consumers are invited to provide input as well as those in the industry and other interested parties:

http://www.culture.gov.uk/reference_lib ... /5884.aspx

I believe that "consumers" means you and me, so anyone wanting to express a view can do so and there is an online questionnaire to complete using the link above.

The last select committee report seemed to come to the conclusion that the secondary market and re-selling was not such a bad thing and came down on the side of legislative intervention being inappropriate whilst encouraging a tightening up of industry practices by voluntary code. That seems to be the way things are drifting here, but maybe if enough direct consumer evidence were made available of the extent of the problem the position might be different.

Rather than bellyaching here, people might consider re-directing their bad experiences to the appropriate bodies able to do something about it. Recent news items I've read on here suggest similar enquiries are going on in the US too.

Here is a link to the 2007 select committee report for anyone with a bit of time to spare:

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/p ... /20202.htm
da2008
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by da2008 » Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:55 pm

It's an argument that's not worth fighting for. AEG is in charge because they're able to run a large-scale global tour. Considering LC isn't exaclty playing coffee shops I don't understand your purist's approach. Yes, this is music industry and yes, it's not exactly the best and fairest place in the World, but would you rather he played holes in the wall? Would tickets be cheaper? I repeat, this is a common problem - Neil Young has to deal with that, Radiohead has to deal with that, Daft Punk has to deal with that, Liza Minelli has to deal with that and Leonard Cohen has to deal with that. He can choose to not play, obviously, but is that what you really want?

Also, pizmo - I spent around 10 hours just trying to buy ticketes to Morrissey's show at the Bowery. Guess what? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. AEG weren't involved either, it's a Bowery Presents show. And guess what else? NOBODY on the forum was able to buy one ticket. They were all on StubHub, TicketsNow, etc. BUT, nobody took it against the artist. You are way out of line to make these righteous statements. Seriously.
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leonardmtl
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Re: A sad day for Leonard

Post by leonardmtl » Thu Mar 12, 2009 10:53 pm

Would our opinions change if it were transparent that Leonard benefited from higher ticket prices?

Would we begrudge him the replenishment of his retirement fund?

Would the fact that he were able to double it make a difference?.

The rule should be: only when it becomes exploitation.

So shouldn't we be saying "the pricing could be higher but should be fair!

Perhaps an average of higher and current low prices (to assure member with less resources don't get squeezed out) as long as the money went to LC and the pricing was not exploitative.

Of course, the devil is in the details!

But don't forget the scalper organizations, like Leonard's promoter, AEG.

They should be taken behind the barn and....

Of course, this is all very naive......its just not the way the game is played!

But I don't begrudge Leonard getting a small part of the gouging


Leonard from Montreal...same name...same town...no Golden Voice
We're all on one road....we're only passing through....

1967 Montreal / 2008 Toronto/ 2009 New York Beacon /Boston 2x /New York MSG / Chelsea Hotel Plaque Celebration /San Jose / 2010 Las Vegas 2x / 2012 Montreal 2x /Boston 2x
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