Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by LisaLCFan » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:42 pm

AlanM wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:52 am
...The Album: Thanks For The Dance....
When my CD was delivered, I resisted the temptation to listen to it straight away. I held off until the evening as I firmly believe it is best to listen to Leonard in the dark when my mind can absorb the words and music, but especially Leonard's hypnotic voice...

I did exactly the same thing! It just seemed wrong to listen to a brand new Leonard Cohen CD, in particular, in the middle of the afternoon, in broad daylight with all of its distractions. So, I, too, held off until the dark of evening, when I could get fully lost in the moment, as if in a private universe with nothing but me and Leonard's voice and the music. I had poured myself a glass of wine, which sat forgotten for those 30 minutes while the rest of the world ceased to exist. It was a fantastic experience, and I loved the album! (Still do!)
Emmanuel
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by Emmanuel » Mon Feb 24, 2020 10:59 pm

B4real wrote:
Fri Oct 06, 2017 7:29 am
Vickie wrote: B4- I have missed your much needed input. I have been listening to Can't Forget: A Souvenir of the Grand Tour, and I will be posting my questions and thoughts on that in the next couple days. I am especially curious about the song La Manic, which is all in French. There was nothing in English in the liner notes and in spite of my recent attempts to learn a little French before we go to Montreal, I understand NOTHING of it, lol ..I am sure you have some info on it.
Vickie, Please forgive my absence here but I’ve been mentally (it feels like physically) walking through the most interesting pages of personal history again! But before I give you some info about La Manic I must say that’s a great photo of Dave’s daughter and the koala. Just my type of Aussie animal!

Here’s the English translation. Due to my recent family history discoveries I simply must find time to go back to learning French and not have to depend on goggle!

http://lyricstranslate.com/en/la-manic-manic.html

The Manic
If only you knew how long the time is at Manic
You’d write way more often, to the Manicouagan
Sometimes I think so hard about you
That I recreate your soul and your body
I look at you and I am filled with wonder
I throw myself into you
Just like the river into the sea
And the flower into the bee

My beautiful lover, what do your silken forehead
And your velvet eyes become, when I am not there
Do you turn towards the Côte-Nord
To see a little, to see some more
My hand signalling you to wait
At twilight and at dawn, I reach out
I meet you wherever you may be
And I keep you

Tell me what’s going on in Trois-Rivières and in Quebec City
Where there’s so much to do, and eveything we do with it
Tell me what’s going on in Montreal
In the dirty side streets
Where you’re always the more beautiful
Because ugliness can’t get to you
You, who I’ll love until I pass away
My eternal

We boast around all day long
But we’re all good guys faithful to their loves
Some play guitar
Others play accordion
To pass time, when the time is long
But me, I play of my love
And I dance, saying your name
Because I love you so much

If only you knew how long the time is at Manic
You’d write way more often, to the Manicouagan
If you don’t have much to tell me
Write the words ‘I love you’ a hundred times
It will be the most beautiful of poems
I’ll read it a hundred times
A hundred times, a hundred times are not a lot
For those who are in love

If only you knew how long the time is
At Manic
You’d write way more often
To the Manicouagan
-----
You may know La Manic was written by Georges Dor.
Here’s a bit about him and his song -
http://www.cshf.ca/song/la-manic/

As it says in the link Georges song La Manic was inducted in the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame in 2006. I remember in 2006 that LC quoted from this song in his acceptance speech when he also was inducted into the Canadian Songwriters Hall of Fame. Possibly that song was inducted before LC was and that prompted him to quote his words from Georges’ song –

“If you knew how life drags on at le Manicouagan
You’d write to me a lot more often at le Manicouagan”

I haven’t seen this video for so long and I’ve just watched it now. It was a moving experience back then and you can times a thousand fold that emotion today! I know you are going to love it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pq3tMW65t60

I love Adrienne Clarkson’s entire intro to Leonard and she begins with this, “Before Leonard Cohen there were songs, and after hearing Leonard Cohen there are no songs; quite like his....”
Our family is very honored by Leonard Cohen's interpretation of "La complainte de la Manic".
Emmanuel Dor, 2020-02-24.
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning » Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:42 am

Emmanuel, how nice to leave the kind message from your family.

Leonard Cohen only performed his interpretation of "La complainte de la Manic" several times, most if not all, in Canadian concerts (although maybe he included it in a Paris concert as well). I was lucky enough to see and hear his performance of the song in Kingston in December 2012, it brought an already enthusiastic crowd to its feet.

I have read that Leonard had begun an English translation of the song and mentioned that completing it was on his to-do list, but unfortunately time ran out.

For those who do not know about him, Georges Dor led a very interesting life and had a varied and prolific career. I point you to this entry in "The Canadian Encyclopedia."

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/ ... es-dor-emc

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
Emmanuel
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by Emmanuel » Tue Feb 25, 2020 7:39 pm

its4inthemorning wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:42 am
Emmanuel, how nice to leave the kind message from your family.

Leonard Cohen only performed his interpretation of "La complainte de la Manic" several times, most if not all, in Canadian concerts (although maybe he included it in a Paris concert as well). I was lucky enough to see and hear his performance of the song in Kingston in December 2012, it brought an already enthusiastic crowd to its feet.

I have read that Leonard had begun an English translation of the song and mentioned that completing it was on his to-do list, but unfortunately time ran out.

For those who do not know about him, Georges Dor led a very interesting life and had a varied and prolific career. I point you to this entry in "The Canadian Encyclopedia."

https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/ ... es-dor-emc

4
Thank you. I did not know that Leonard Cohen performed "La complainte de la Manic" several times. What an honor!
I do not even know if my dad Georges Dor was aware of this.

I leave you with this. Maybe there is an english version of this podcast somewhere?
https://ici.radio-canada.ca/premiere/li ... nard-cohen

Emmanuel Dor
Montréal, 2020-02-25
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:34 pm

Emmanuel,

Here is a video of the first time Cohen sang your father's "La complainte de la Manic" in concert, at Centre Bell 11/29/12:

https://youtu.be/rQfyw_Lmhm0?t=1

Enjoy!
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
its4inthemorning
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning » Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:44 pm

Emmanuel,

I just discovered that if you do not exit the video when it ends, a different version pops up of Cohen's performance of your father's song at Colisee Pepsi. And if you do not exit that video at the end, an audio of your father singing the song in 1966 pops up.

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
Emmanuel
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Joined: Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:10 pm

Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by Emmanuel » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:53 pm

its4inthemorning wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:44 pm
Emmanuel,

I just discovered that if you do not exit the video when it ends, a different version pops up of Cohen's performance of your father's song at Colisee Pepsi. And if you do not exit that video at the end, an audio of your father singing the song in 1966 pops up.

4
Thank you! In the late 90's, I saw Leonard Cohen on PBS tv, a show called "Austin City Limits". I wish I could found this tv show on Internet.

Emmanuel Dor
Montréal, 2020-02-27
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning » Fri Feb 28, 2020 1:21 am

It seems Leonard appeared on "Austin City Limits" twice, once in 1988 and once in 1993. The 1988 performance is available on youtube, but for some reason the 1993 performance is not. Bev, do you know if a video of the 1993 ACL performance is available anywhere?

Emmanuel, if you have any recollections of of the history of "La complainte de la Manic," your father's music career in general, and his thoughts about Leonard Cohen, I am sure there are many following this forum that would be interested in hearing them.

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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B4real
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by B4real » Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:02 am

4, I can't find the 1993 concert anywhere online but I can help Emmanuel with the 1988 one.
We had discussed it in this thread some time ago ;-)
https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... in#p364993
The link in it still works for the 1988 concert. Enjoy!

EDIT: A direct link from Austin City Limits https://acltv.com/2016/11/11/leonard-cohen-1934-2016/
Cohen returned in 1993 in support of his trailblazing record The Future. The maestro was so pleased with the results he included two of the songs on his 1994 concert record Cohen Live. We’re honored to have these two classic appearances to document his unforgettable legacy.
Interesting that the official listing for Cohen Live 1994 says there were three songs sung live in Austin from the 1988 concert. Hallelujah, Who By Fire and If It Be Your Will. My CD lists them as 1988 too. I'll have to watch the 1988 link again :)

Well I did and all officially listed 1988 songs are sung except there is no Hallelujah sung in the link. It's also not officially listed in the 1993 concert. hummmm...
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:42 pm

Bev, thanks for the link. I watched the entire video (except I admit to fast-forwarding through "Jazz Police"). A very good short concert, I liked seeing the old band members who I had never seen in concert plus a young Bob Metzger. Leonard singing and playing his guitar for "If it be Your Will" was a real treat, I had grown accustomed to the Webb sisters performing it.

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by LisaLCFan » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:25 pm

its4inthemorning wrote:
Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:42 pm
... I admit to fast-forwarding through "Jazz Police"...

I have noticed, amongst members of this forum, a nearly unanimous dislike of this song. I happen to like it! I find it to be intriguing and a great deal of fun (I also like jazz, in general, and Star Trek, which may help, I don't know). The Austin City Limits performance, in particular, is a hoot -- Leonard certainly seems to be enjoying it!

For those who are quick to disregard "Jazz Police", someone named Jason Murray (whom I do not know), wrote a very interesting analysis of the song (link, below), which may, if nothing else, at least engender a somewhat greater appreciation for the lyrics, if not the music, in those who normally don't bother listening to it.

https://www.leonardcohenfiles.com/jazz.html

I am certainly not trying to convert anyone to the song -- people dislike what they dislike, and matters of taste are difficult to change. However, I think that Mr. Murray provides some worthwhile insight into the potential meaning of the song, as well into Leonard's creative processes, giving a persuasive argument showing how "Jazz Police" can fit very well into the Cohen oeuvre. I hope that you may enjoy reading it perhaps more than you enjoy hearing Leonard singing it!
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by vlcoats » Tue Mar 03, 2020 5:48 am

Hello and yikes!

So, I will tell you what happens when you you don't have time to log in and read the new posts you asked to be notified of.... you miss an ongoing conversation on your favorite thread!! Because once you miss one, they don't notify you again.... no matter how many you miss. Not that 'our' thread needs my input, but please indulge me in a quick backwards response, starting with the most recent replies:

Jazz Police... a song that at first made me nearly embarrassed to listen to. (shows what a moron I can be). It is still not a favorite, but if Leonard felt it worthy and went on to perform it more than once, what do I know? Not much. I loved "Humbled in Love", and B4 said he never performed that one live!

La Manic... Emmanuel, as 4 said, thank you so much for the kind message from your family. It saddened me to hear that your dad was perhaps unaware of Leonard's performances of it. I remember finding my favorite vidoe of the song when we discussed it earlier https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZnwNmR1pUQ . I love it still!

Thanks for the Dance... Although we all know what a special album it is, it was especially gratifying for me to finally hear what Alan thinks of it, and in particular what he thought of the music that accompanies it. I have been lately looking to discover more of the influence Leonard has had on others that continues to grow today. Of course the logical place to start is with Adam's albums. So far, I have "Like a Man" and "We Go Home". I love them both, but "We Go Home" resonates with the great influence Leonard had on his only son. It made me happy to hear that Alan came around to honoring that as well.

The Puppet.... um.. it's not that I don't like it. I feel connected to every other song on this album, but not this one. I find it hard to admit that I might have a problem with Leonard's overtly religious works... like Book of Mercy... because, face it, nobody wants to be thought of as having no spirituality. But when I hear religious discussions, I always want to respond "It's just semantics", and don't really want to go any further. Maybe it's because I am incapable of comprehending it all, or maybe it's because I feel it's too personal to discuss, or maybe it's because I am just not interested.

Anyways.... I am sorry I missed so much of this conversation until now. I was hoping to also hear from Jean, but maybe he has missed the conversation in much the same way as myself.

Does anyone else feel that It's Torn and The Hills are kinda related in some way?
Vickie
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by vlcoats » Tue Mar 03, 2020 6:00 am

Sorry for my above typos... I was writing with my grandchild on my lap. Which by the way, we were listening to Georges Dor's La Manic as I fed him his bottle, and he loved it! Proving that he is already wise beyond his years at 3 months!
Vickie
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by Jean Fournell » Wed Mar 04, 2020 6:26 pm

Its4inthemorning, I'm glad you added this update to the first part of your essay:
its4inthemorning wrote:
Tue Jan 07, 2020 4:03 am
Edit 2/7/20: I was leafing through Sylvie's "I'm Your Man" and see that I should have offered thanks to Rob Hallet as well as to Robert Kory for being instrumental in Leonard's decision to tour again; Hallet, a prominent music promoter, made the extraordinary deal to Leonard that he could take all the time he needed to set up a band and practice (with Hallet paying the bills), and if in the end Leonard's final decision was to not tour, Hallet would eat the expenses and they would part friends.
If my memory doesn't play tricks on me, Leonard Cohen invested something like a million dollars (of Rob Hallett's money!) into the preparations.
If that woman should indeed have triggered anything, she also would have made any realisation virtually impossible through leaving Leonard Cohen broke.
So she deserves little credit if any.

Vickie, for my part I just look at the forum board to see if there are any new posts, on any topic. Much easier than open my email, check for notifications, and finally be limited to the topics previously specified…

("Jazz Police" and "Puppets" are not my favourites either.)

I already said a few words about "The Night of Santiago", so I'll skip that for the time being.

In "It's Torn", I have a special liking for the lines

It's torn where there's mercy
but torn somewhat less


It's torn in the centre
which few can accept

(It's torn at the very "heart of this or any other matter"…)

and

And Eve must re-enter
the sleep of her birth


As for "The Hills", I can no more than bow to

She'll see what I mean
My will cut in half
and freedom between


and especially to

And I know she will look
And that is the longing
and this is the hook


(https://leonardcohenforum.com/viewtopic ... 15#p342833)
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to say nothing of the horse.

... for a while
... for a little while...

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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning » Thu Mar 26, 2020 2:42 am

Friends,

Hope that everyone is successfully coping with the situation that thrust itself on us recently. Let's hope and pray for positive news and developments.

Personally we have been little-affected, somehow self-isolation is not a big deal and actually offers benefits. Ame I wrong to think that Cohen fans may be able to cope with self-isolation better than most?

This thread is about Leonard's music, and that is the reason for this post. In these strange times my thoughts wondered to a song set in troubled times that intrigues me today more than ever:

https://youtu.be/H63dZKnlu_I

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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