Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
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LisaLCFan
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by LisaLCFan »

AlanM wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:28 am
its4inthemorning wrote: Thu Sep 23, 2021 1:58 pm
...please rephrase "waste an hour every so often" to "mis-prioritize my use of time."
I would still challenge you on your rephrased statement, but if that's the way you see the world, so be it.

Alan, I totally agree with you, and I, too, was taken aback by the phrasing used by our fellow forum member "4". To me, it is never a waste of time to listen to or watch Leonard Cohen, and I sometimes make it a priority to do so!

Enriching my life with music and art -- including Leonard's -- brings meaning and solace and joy and respite and so many other positive things to my existence. If anything, I ought to do much more of it than I already do, without any guilt or negative judgement whatsoever! In fact, when I do not spend enough time listening to Leonard (or other similar activities), that is when I feel that I have wasted and mis-prioritised my time.
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vlcoats
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by vlcoats »

[/quote]
Stranger song is one of my one of the most favorite songs of LC. It was 3rd song I've learned on guitar.
[/quote]

That's some complicated picking for your 3rd ever song on the guitar, but I would think well worth the effort!
I loved that song when I first heard it, but I think I love it even more now. I am never sure if it reminds me of myself or someone else. Leonard's music is like that isn't it?

I clicked 'play' on the link you sent and listened to the piano playing the piece... it was hard for me to hear The Stranger Song in it ;-) Out of context maybe?

Thank you for posting.
Vickie
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning »

I do not recall discussion on here on "Puppets" from Leonard's posthumous album.

Some might say the song was a recitation of the poem and not really music, but to me the instrumental and chorus overlays add so, so much and actually make the words that much more chilling. The selection and production of these overlays was pure genious.

I came across an earlier version (circa 2006) of "Puppets" with different musical overlays on Allan Showalter's site and am posting a link here:

https://youtu.be/bZBTHhQxXoA

The differences between this old version and the final one are vast. Isn't it amazing how different a poem can be with different musical treatments?

If anything, the many discussions on this thread reinforced the idea that Leonard's lyrics lend themselves to (and in my opinion were designed to) allow for listeners to arrive at their own interpretations based on their own life experiences. That being said, it seems somewhat unlikely that anyone could interpret the beginning stanzas as anything but references to Nazi Germany and the holocaust. Based on when the poem was written, the stanzas referencing "presidents" would seem to be references to the Iraq war, but of course those stanzas could apply to any leader who takes his country to war, even a war that history has good things to say about. It is the stanzas about the puppet lovers and the puppet reader that, at least to me, are the most clever and thought-provoking. Until these stanzas, the listener may have been lulled into a complacency of sorts, as he might feel the holocaust and the Iraq war were outside of his responsibility and control. But Cohen seems to be reminding listeners that it is actions such as "shaking one's head" and "turning away from all of this" by ordinary people that ultimately allow very bad things to occur.

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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vlcoats
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by vlcoats »

Of all the songs on TFTD, Puppets is probably towards the bottom of the list if I were to make one. But ranking Leonard's songs is a little like taking a pile of perfect diamonds and assembling them in order from your favorite to your least favorite. They are all still perfect diamonds.

Having said that, the thing about Puppets that I have trouble with is the repetitive word 'puppet' throughout. Yes I know that is the whole essence of the song, but for some reason it gets to me, and I wish it had a little more meat and potatoes in it.

As for the meaning. unlike 4, I don't think Leonard is trying to warn us against complacency and turning away or 'bad things' might happen. I think it is more his way of accepting and surrendering to the fact that we are not in control. We are not the puppeteers. History repeats itself in love and in war with different players, including puppet me and puppet you.

I have to say again though that I love that album... the tone of it and Leonard's awesome voice. The musical arrangements are perfect. And I am wild about the video for Moving On! (Which may or may not have something to do with the fact that it was filmed on Hydra and features a donkey :D)

Vickie
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B4real
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by B4real »

Ah, by both of you talking about "puppets" and “turning away” has reminded me of a favourite song called “On The Turning Away” by Pink Floyd that has always resonated with me over the years since I first bought it on cassette tape.

Here’s the first verse:
“On the turning away from the pale down-trodden
And the words they say which we won’t understand
Don’t accept that what’s happening
Is just a case of others suffering
Or you’ll find that you’re joining in the turning away”

And the last verse:
“No more turning away from the weak and the weary
No more turning away from the coldness inside
Just a world that we all must share
It’s not enough just to stand and stare
Is it only a dream that there’ll be no more turning away”


And consequently, I am reminded of these conversations:

https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... yd#p370712

https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... yd#p374398
4 wrote: I never would have imagined that a connection could develop between Cohen and Pink Floyd, one of my favorite rock groups...
... with 4 and Pink Floyd and LC again here too -
https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... yd#p373172

Also, I did a search for “puppets” and this is the result - https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/searc ... sf=msgonly

It seems sometimes things really do have unsuspected circular connections ;-)
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
its4inthemorning
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning »

Bev, a question: Did you simply use the search function regarding "Puppets" being previously discussed here, or did you actually recall the discussions you cited? If the latter, then my memory is far, far worse than yours, even after reading the comments again I only barely recalled them. (Make me feel relieved by saying you just used the search function.)

"On turning Away" is a beautiful song both musically and lyrically. Roger Waters wrote most of Pink Floyd's lyrics after Syd Barrett left the picture through "The Wall," then David Gilmour took over most of the lyricist duties, most recently with Polly Samson as co-writer. As an aside, the album that contains "On Turning Away" also includes "Learning to Fly." Before I heard this song, I considered what it would be about: growing up, evolving a relationship, mastering some talent, etc. Then I heard the song and was somewhat shocked to find that it literally is about learning to fly--Gilmour loves airplanes and flying and has a pilot's license!

As for "Puppets," Vickie I can understand why it ranks lowest on your favorites list from TFTD. I had the same feeling the first time I listened, but....something really grabbed me with each successive play. Your aversion to the word "puppets" is duly noted and I will henceforth try to remember to use "marionettes" instead.

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by B4real »

its4inthemorning wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 7:31 pm Bev, a question: Did you simply use the search function regarding "Puppets" being previously discussed here, or did you actually recall the discussions you cited? If the latter, then my memory is far, far worse than yours, even after reading the comments again I only barely recalled them. (Make me feel relieved by saying you just used the search function.)
4
He, he! 4, I used both functions :) my memory and the forum search.
Firstly, I remembered you previously saying something (but not precisely) about Puppets and that I had also posted a link to LC reciting that original poem when I gave Vickie her intermediate to advanced diploma - see the last post in the search link. I then used the search button as a general inquiry for all references to Puppets on this thread.

4, I should add, in any case, don’t think twice about the state of your memory. Here’s what Leonard said about his from an interview in 2005 called Leonard Looks Back On The Past by Kari Hesthamar:
“My memory is not so good, you know, in fact, I’ve been blessed with amnesia, I hardly remember anything from the past, so that’s made me a very unsentimental person, I don’t have any good memories, or bad memories, so it’s okay. But I very rarely review my memories”...
“As I’ve told you many times now, my memory…, it’s just not that my memory is not good, it’s that I don’t exercise my memory so it gets flabby and it goes to sleep, because I’m not interested in the past”...
Interviewer: There you see, you have good memory, you can recall...
"I’m just performing darling, I don’t really care about those things to tell you the truth".
;-)
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
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B4real
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by B4real »

its4inthemorning wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 7:18 pm I do not recall discussion on here on "Puppets" from Leonard's posthumous album.
4
4, You must have ESP ;-)

See here - https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... 58#p377734

EDIT: Ha! 4, thanks for your joint email confirming your special function ;-)
Also, prompted by something else, I've just watched again an LC interview from 2006 and thought I'd add and compare what he said about his memory a year later on: "I'm blessed with active amnesia*.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning »

We are planning to watch some LC DVDs tonight to welcome in the new year, and that made me reminisce, for the thousandth time, about the concerts that we saw in person. It also made me remember about the post I did here several years ago (September 10, 2017), the one that reviewed the Live in Dublin DVD and included flashbacks of our concerts. While I tried to recapture those flashbacks in words, a picture (or video) is worth a thousand words, so in this and the three following posts I am going to embellish those flashbacks.

{Flashback #1: It's the start of a summer evening, with the air pure from a recent rain shower. The sun has gone down, and the sky is darkening. Despite the large crowd and outdoor setting, there is very little noise. Everyone's attention is focused on the stage, on the band, and on LC's voice. When LC sings "through the god-damned horror" it is as if he is in your living room commiserating with you. A memorable night in Lucca.]

The following link is Leonard singing Amen in Lucca; the video quality is not great, but the audio is. I believe we were seated between whoever took the video and the stage. After the link are photos of the historic walled city of Lucca, the street that our B&B, Al Tuscany, was on, and the concert venue Piaza Napoleone (the stage was in front of the building on the left and the seating started at the stage and continued to the right side of the piaza with the statue being in the midst of the audience).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oxh64c_v6wk

4
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Last edited by its4inthemorning on Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
its4inthemorning
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning »

[Flashback #2: It's December in Las Vegas, and in his introduction to Anthem LC is saying, "Some of you have been to many concerts...we are deeply aware of the gesture and of the sacrifice. I want to express our gratitude to those--I don't want to call them fans--they are of a much deeper order than fans." Anthem is played, showcasing each band member with a short solo. Then the band leaves the stage for the intermission, and we go to the lobby for a cigarette and to gush about our first concert.]

This link is a video recorded by Arlene Dick, one of Leonard's most devoted fans. As you will see, Leonard's sense of humor ran rampant when he commented on Las Vegas and in his introduction of Raphael. The photo shows the front entrance to Caesars Colosseum viewed from the lobby where we enjoyed our cigarette (at that time, at least in Las Vegas, smoking in the casinos was permitted).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeQn25FxCaw

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2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
its4inthemorning
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning »

[Flashback #3: Late in the day in early fall we are on a hectic taxi ride to L'Olympia. a small venue with a considerable history. We meet others at a bar a block away, but details of this are forgotten since our minds were on what was to come. We take our seats, nice plush red seats, and the magic starts. During the second set the lights darken to veil rearrangements on stage, and then come on again to reveal the quartet of LC and Mitch with guitars, Javier with one of his exotic instruments, and Neil with an accordion, standing together, and starting The Partisan. The audience loves this song because of its connection with their history, and they really love it when LC sings the verse in French. Far too soon it is early morning and we find ourselves in another taxi returning to the rental apartment.]

Here is a link to The Partisan as it was played that night. (I see that my memory failed me, it was quintet rather than a quartet, Mitch remained in his seat, but Roscoe and Alex joined LC, Javier, and Neil.) Albert Noonan has a better video of The Partisan at L'Olympia, but that was the Sunday concert and we attended the Friday show. The first photo is the entrance to L'Olympia, and the second is the interior with the plush red seats (as intimate as this picture makes the venue seem, it is even more intimate in person) Our seats were fairly close to the ones in the foreground of the photo. The last photo shows a tunnel in Paris that goes under the Louvre, our taxis to and from L'Olympia took this route.

https://youtu.be/rYcARLwurq8

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2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
its4inthemorning
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning »

[Flashback #4: Drinking wine that some fans brought to the park beneath the venue, and Christelle shows us "Pablo" who will be tossed on stage before "the monkey and the plywood violin" line. The sun is finally setting, and we climb the mountain to Palau Sant Jordi for the show. Now we are seated, just several rows back from where Javier will be on stage. Eventually the concert reaches Manhattan, and Christelle's aim is perfect. We can see LC making the toy monkey wave to Javier right in front of us. The crowd loves it, it is good to be alive. Then the long walk downhill from the venue, and the taxi to downtown Barcelona where we have a very late but delicious tapas meal.]

This link is for a video that had to have been taken by someone sitting very close to us, it shows the same view we had. Do you think Leonard was in a good mood that night? The foreground of the first photo shows where we enjoyed the pre-concert wine; the building in the distance is a museum and the actual venue--Palau Sant Jordi--is behind and slightly uphill from the museum. The second photo is Christelle's beloved Pablo, and the last one shows an outdoor cafe very similar to the one where we enjoyed our late-night tapas repast.

https://youtu.be/dfe5vGJ3kjs

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2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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vlcoats
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by vlcoats »

Well, it is not 4 in the morning, but it is the end of December, making this a wonderful treat to wake up to. Thank you for the links and especially for the memories. If I could only chose one, I would have a hard time deciding which concert to attend.

Given Leonard's age, I cannot help but wonder what prompted him to continue with the live performances for such a long time. Dave said I am over thinking it (who? me?), and that Leonard was enjoying it, simple as that. As for what prompted you all to traips around the world to see him, well that is much easier to understand, considering our own trips to Montreal and Hydra.

Thank you again for the posts 4 and a very Happy New Year to you all!

Vickie
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by its4inthemorning »

Vickie, I once wrote a piece here talking about the gifts that low-life Kelly Lynch inadvertently gave to Leonard's fans (and perhaps even to Leonard himself), gifts of hundreds of more concerts and four albums' worth of new songs. We were lucky enough to be in the right circumstances in those years to take full advantage of these inadvertent gifts, and they provided an impetus to scratch our growing itch to travel abroad.

Life is a quirky thing. These concerts are experiences Joann and I will remember the rest of our lives, and they--and of course Leonard's music--would be unknown to us if a college friend had not plopped SOLAH down on his turntable when I was at his apartment in June, 1971, if I hadn't married a Cohenite, if we had not chanced upon finding Live in London on a PBS fundraiser in December, 2009, and if I had not found this forum. The odds against all those things happening were staggering, but they did all happen, and here we are.

It is impossible to call one of our four concerts "the best" one, they are all treasured. (If I can't choose among four, imagine Bev trying to choose her favorite concert?) When Leonard was doing his final tours, it was not uncommon for fans and even reviewers to say his shows were almost religious experiences, and I have to agree. They were like a combination of being in a trance and having illegal substances in your system for three hours, all the while lamenting that those three hours were ticking down.

4
2010 DECEMBER 10 - CAESARS COLOSSEUM, LAS VEGAS / 2012 SEPTEMBER 28 - L'OLYMPIA, PARIS
2012 OCTOBER 3 - PALAU SANT JORDI, BARCELONA / 2012 DECEMBER 13 - K-ROCK CENTRE, KINGSTON
2013 APRIL 6 - RADIO CITY MUSIC HALL, NEW YORK CITY / 2013 JULY 9 - PIAZZA NAPOLEONE, LUCCA
2017 NOVEMBER 4-8 - MONTREAL "TOWER OF SONG" CELEBRATION - RIP, YOU GOT ME SINGING!
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Re: Along the way... Discovering Leonard's albums

Post by B4real »

Hi 4,
Ah, what are we without our memories - “I got this rig that runs on memories” ;-)
You’ve put enough concert memories together here for me to say maybe you should have started a new thread and called it something like, “LC Tour Memories & Favourite Concert” :)
In 2010 Joe did start a thread called “Tour Memories” - https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... rt#p263103
Little did we know then we would be blessed with additional time to gather more memories.

You are right in saying I would have a difficult time to choose my favourite out of all those LC concerts I went to. If push came to shove, I could almost (I said almost!) narrow it down to three concerts noted for their uniqueness. One in 2009 and two in 2013 - the first and last LC concert I went to and one in between.

The first one in Brisbane 03 Feb 2009 before I joined the forum was thrice meaningful because of the set of circumstances which led me to go to this concert, the concert itself, and its aftermath. I went with an old friend and forum member who had never been to an LC concert before either. Between the both of us, it was an experience like no other! We went again next year in Brisbane 2010. She passed away on the same day of the week as Leonard and exactly 4 years and 3 weeks later.

The in-between one is Townsville 28 Nov 2013. I chose this one because I met and had conversations with many of the band members - not LC! Myself and another forum member who was at quite a few of the concerts with me also had a few drinks and chit chat at the hotel bar with some of the UHTC crew who by now at this stage of the tour we were familiar with. I was given all my stage set lists by one of them. We all stayed at the same hotel with the band and crew on different floors. Generally, this concert and the time around it had a relaxed, out of the big city, feel to it - https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... 77#p341706

And I simply have to include the last one, Adelaide 11 Dec 2013 for the reasons listed in the link below and also its connection to the circumstances of me going to the first concert. Sadly, it was the very last concert Leonard ever did in Australia. That fact alone is more than enough to be included and I reckon this reason is shared by all who were there on that night - https://www.leonardcohenforum.com/viewt ... 15#p342103

Vickie,
I hope your donkeys are coping with all the snow over there. Please send me some cold – it’s hot here!

It’s New Year’s Day in Australia now so Happy New Year to all! Here’s a snap of how Sydney celebrated last night -
https://hanlire.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... 80x470.jpg
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just has to B4real ~ me
Attitude is a self-fulfilling prophecy ~ me ...... The magic of art is the truth of its lies ~ me ...... Only left-handers are in their right mind!
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