Dance me to the end of Auschwitz

General discussion about Leonard Cohen's songs and albums
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25398
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Post by lizzytysh » Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:58 pm

Well, when his credibility gets questioned, as to whether he actually did what he said he did, it matters. If that wasn't the content or construction of the interview, then both my and Mirek's postings are moot points ~ and Leonard's credibility is implicitly, de facto restored :D .
Mirek
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Poznan, Poland

Post by Mirek » Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:44 am

lizzytysh wrote:Hi Mirek ~

I don't question for a second that Leonard visited Auschwitz, and knew exactly where he was at.... So, expanding the sentence [that the commas imply], it would read....."First, I went to Germany [and visited the relevant sites, including (perhaps) some of the other concentration camps], and then I went to Auschwitz [the most, well-known of the concentration camps and the holocaust]." The way you're reading it is, "I went to Auschwitz in Germany." However, that's not the way it's written and, I know, isn't the way it was experienced by Leonard. If he said he went to Auschwitz, he went to Auschwitz.
~ Lizzy
Yes Lizzy - IF he said...
Cohen was in Poland only once - he visited Warsaw, Poznan, Zabrze and Wroclaw. He didn't have time to see Auschwitz - unfortunately. Well, maybe fortunately, because this place is like a nightmare - and for such a vulnerable person that could be something not easy to bear with.

The idea that "Dance me..." is a song inspired by concentration camp sounds interesting. It is supported by the concert in Koeln.

But then - why the video clip even for a second does not refer to it?

Mirek
User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25398
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:52 am

Ah, okay then, Mirek ~ then it was Jurica [and Lightning] who did the not-unusual thing of referring to the Holocaust concentration camps as "Auschwitz." It's become very symbolic of that, at least here. Your response, then, might have had more to do with the fact that Leonard visited other concentration camps in Poland, but didn't have time to visit Auschwitz, more than its actual location. Thanks for the clarification. So, he apparently did not say he visited Auschwitz.

It's true that the song was inspired by the Holocaust. However, he may have considered it in poor taste, or as exploiting the situation, for use in a video, to include that fact in the video, and rather wished to expand its applications [the video and the song] to people's lives, in general. Trying to figure out Leonard's thinking is, well, uh, :? :shock: :lol: , laughable, in its way :wink: However, I assure you that he had his good reasons.

~ Lizzy
Mirek
Posts: 323
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 12:16 pm
Location: Poznan, Poland

Post by Mirek » Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:15 am

lizzytysh wrote: It's become very symbolic of that, at least here. Your response, then, might have had more to do with the fact that Leonard visited other concentration camps in Poland, but didn't have time to visit Auschwitz, more than its actual location. Thanks for the clarification. So, he apparently did not say he visited Auschwitz.
~ Lizzy
Well - what I was trying to say is - he couldn't have visited ANY concentration camp in Poland. Maybe he was able to see some place in Germany or in Austria.
Maybe in that interview mentioned by Jurica our Man had said that this photograph (mentioned in Koeln) was taken in Auschwitz - and this is very probable - prisoners in Auschwitz wore those striped clothes.

And that reminds me of the maxim of Theodor W. Adorno: "writing poetry after Auschwitz is barbaric". Of course I do not agree with him.

Mirek




User avatar
lizzytysh
Posts: 25398
Joined: Thu Jun 27, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Florida, U.S.A.

Post by lizzytysh » Sun Sep 26, 2004 1:39 am

Well, now, I have no idea on it. However, poetry, yes ~ but a video that makes it clear upon what the song was based [or what inspired it] is perhaps too blatant a notion for Leonard's taste.
User avatar
Tri-me
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2005 4:41 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Tri-me » Sat Jul 30, 2005 11:19 pm

It is interesting to read how people interpret the songs and poetry. Most of my freinds are artists well educated artists. They can look at painting and give a story/description of the work. I like films and appreciate the work that goes into them being an amateur filmmaker. After a film I know people who can dissect a film into little bits.
Where am I going here? I enjoy listening to people doing this it helps me to see things on a different level. What I like best is when a poem or song, film, painting gives me a feeling. Dance Me To the End Of Love gives me a feeling, love with obstacles. Dance can be a metaphor for how we might get through life, if we could learn to dance through the obstacles. This is how I interpret the world and art I guess viscerally.
Cheers & DLight
Tri-me (tree-mite) Sheldrön
"Doorhinge rhymes with orange" Leonard Cohen
Post Reply

Return to “Leonard Cohen's music”