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Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Wed May 09, 2018 10:30 am
by Wybe

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Thu May 10, 2018 11:38 pm
by Vicomte
Are there no depths some artists won't sink to?
Does she even understand what the song is about, like 99% of all that sing it, they just sing the words in a way they think it sounds good but not understanding why Leonard wrote the verses he did.

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 1:24 am
by Kush
Perhaps we should not judge artists for their choices too much --- and I am guilty of doing so as well sometimes :)

Madonna may be a real good book as the Backwoods Barbie sings...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJBz1U6Y-pg

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Fri May 11, 2018 11:16 am
by Tony
'Chacun à son goût' or 'À chacun son goût', depending on one's use of language, taste or sense of pedantry.

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 12:50 am
by Vicomte
I'll just say it in my own way then, rather than try and look like I am some kind of elitist wordsmith.
Madonna's version was to me absolutely crap, she knew nothing as to why Leonard even wrote the song, or what is was about.
Tony if you liked it, say so, no need for the French, we have lived here in France for nearly 30 years, this site is after all and for the greater part an English forum site.

Kush, same thing, I judged it as total crap, my choice to do so, very few tribute songs of Leonard's do I really enjoy. If I wish to listen to a Cohen song, I have all or most at my fingertips. ;-)

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 1:20 am
by Tony
Nice to see a balanced response, Vicomte, or would you rather be addressed as 'Viscount' in future as you now seem to prefer prefer English?

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 5:42 am
by LisaLCFan
Vicomte wrote:
Thu May 10, 2018 11:38 pm
Are there no depths some artists won't sink to?
Does she even understand what the song is about, like 99% of all that sing it, they just sing the words in a way they think it sounds good but not understanding why Leonard wrote the verses he did.

I like you, Vicomte, I think that you are a decent guy with whom I often agree. But, I am not at all certain that any of us can truly "understand" why Leonard wrote any of the things he did, let alone can a singer, such as Madonna, or any of the millions of people who butcher this song on a regular basis. Besides, Madonna is known to have a bit of an ego, and presumably everything she does is usually about her, anyway (thus, would she really care why Leonard wrote the song, even if she knew?). I've nothing against her, but she is who she is.

And, when it come to covers of Hallelujah (which every person and their cat sings, literally), does it really matter what Leonard's initial intentions may have been? For better or worse (and, perhaps it is "worse"), the song has become as ubiquitous as "Happy Birthday", and to me, all the multitude of renditions of it are just that: people singing a familiar tune in whatever way they see fit, in which others are usually welcome to join in and sing along (because almost everybody knows the tune and the words, at least, to the chorus), and the fact that Leonard Cohen wrote it is almost rather cool, if you think about it. I mean, how often does a song/tune enter the public consciousness as thoroughly as Hallelujah, even if he who wrote it never imagined (nor intended) that it would become so unbelievably popular?

I am reminded of Johannes Brahms, who wrote a little ditty for friends of his in honour of their new child, which was published back in 1868. That tune was this --perhaps you've heard it?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t894eGoymio

Immortality in music is perhaps not what Leonard had in mind (or maybe it is? He was not without ego, either!), but whatever the case, although I personally choose only to listen to Leonard sing this song, it is not going to go away, people are going to continue to sing it well into the foreseeable future. Therefore, rather than lamenting the poor (or, not to one's own liking) interpretations that are inevitably going to appear, perhaps we should simply say/think, "Our man wrote that song, and isn't it awesome?". That's how I like to think of it, anyway.

Cheers, all!

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 5:29 pm
by Kush
You are correct Vicomte, it is your choice....

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 7:56 pm
by Vicomte
Tony wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 1:20 am
Nice to see a balanced response, Vicomte, or would you rather be addressed as 'Viscount' in future as you now seem to prefer prefer English?
Why should it be balanced my view is how I see something, not to offer a balance of some kind, then your view can be seen as clouded. Vicomte by the way is where I live, not who I am but be my guest to carry on guessing.
I am on a site which is aimed at English speakers, why would't I write in English?

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:10 pm
by Tony
Bon soir, Monsieur Viscount. Il me semble that vous êtes le language police ici. I hope vous avez un nice, smart uniforme and a grand dictionnaire anglais avec tous les phrases and mots francais deleted en rouge. Pas de 'cliché', 'double entendre' or 'boutique' pour vous. It may be something of a 'faux pas' as we say en Angleterre. Does l'Académie française approuver? Moi, pour votre information, je n'ai pas lived en France for almost trente years even though it is rien à faire with le topic. Je pense que vous would voulez to have le last word ici, donc I will not écrire plus. Merci for le petit entertainment pour moi.

My apologies to Wybe, Kush and LisaLCFan for my digression here into Franglais and thank you for your posts. I quite like Madonna's singing.

Adieu mes amis (can I say that now?).

Aagh, I hear the knock on the door already!

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:37 pm
by Vicomte
Hi Lisa,
Actually I think we can understand many of Leonard's songs but as I once wrote on the Forum, Pete Townshend said he couldn't recall what the words meant, or even why he wrote them to many of his songs for The Who, guess Leonard would have been across that Bridge but as a writer, a poet and a songwriter I think he took longer to write his songs and how much longer it must have taken him compared to Townshend? Thus I think he knew a lot of how and why he wrote many of his songs, we can all join together and come up with loads, starting perhaps with So long Marianne?

I never did like Madonna, probably, no surely the complete opposite of Leonard, humble she ain't for a start

Yes I do think Leonard's intention of the song is important and to see it used purely as some form of "let's all give it a go" and have no reason for its very conception just pees me off a little, does it show?

Leonard's ego was well hidden. On the rare occasions we have spoken with him, he was without any egoistic thoughts of "do you know who I am" but I'm sure sub consciously he must have been very proud to have made the comeback last so long. And of course to your last paragraph, I do have the immense power to turn off the song should I hear it being destroyed once again by some wannabee ;-)

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 8:43 pm
by Vicomte
Tony wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:10 pm
Bon soir, Monsieur Viscount. Il me semble that vous êtes le language police ici. I hope vous avez un nice, smart uniforme and a grand dictionnaire anglais avec tous les phrases and mots francais deleted en rouge. Pas de 'cliché', 'double entendre' or 'boutique' pour vous. It may be something of a 'faux pas' as we say en Angleterre. Does l'Académie française approuver? Moi, pour votre information, je n'ai pas lived en France for almost trente years even though it is rien à faire with le topic. Je pense que vous would voulez to have le last word ici, donc I will not écrire plus. Merci for le petit entertainment pour moi.

My apologies to Wybe, Kush and LisaLCFan for my digression here into Franglais and thank you for your posts. I quite like Madonna's singing.

Adieu mes amis (can I say that now?).

Aagh, I hear the knock on the door already!
Oh dear, I'm sure your carer will be along in a minute to give you your nightly hot milk and pills,you'll feel a lot better and perhaps your humour will return but sadly I have my doubts.

PS I have no idea what you are on about as far as language police is concerned but I should get your French sorted out before you venture out on another booze cruise, you are sounding like the (British) French copper on 'Allo 'Allo.

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:25 pm
by LisaLCFan
Vicomte wrote:...Yes I do think Leonard's intention of the song is important and to see it used purely as some form of "let's all give it a go" and have no reason for its very conception just pees me off a little, does it show?...

No, it doesn't show at all, you hide your disdain very well! ;-)

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sat May 12, 2018 10:31 pm
by Wybe
I did not post it because I liked it, but for the forum members who would like to know this kind of things.
Nice to see that it is dicussed.

Re: Madonna Performs 'Haleluya' At Met Gala 2018

Posted: Sun May 13, 2018 12:56 am
by Vicomte
LisaLCFan wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 10:25 pm
Vicomte wrote:...Yes I do think Leonard's intention of the song is important and to see it used purely as some form of "let's all give it a go" and have no reason for its very conception just pees me off a little, does it show?...

No, it doesn't show at all, you hide your disdain very well! ;-)
Yes I thought so as well, it's an art you know :lol: ;-)