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Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 1:51 am
by Vicomte
holydove wrote:
Khutsky, I'm sorry, but your statement is totally bizarre!!

First of all, from a historical point of view, don't you know that the Jews were also slaves in Egypt for THOUSANDS OF YEARS?? So are you saying, perhaps, that Leonard is being racist against HIMSELF & his own people??
Sorry if momentarily this thread slides a little off the subject but talking of bizarre, holydove, where ever did you read, or were told, that the Jews were slaves in Egypt for "THOUSANDS OF YEARS" ?

I do agree with you though that Leonard's use of the word slaves in the song, were certainly not in any way, racist.

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 2:57 am
by TineDoes
Holydove, scocoh, imaginary friend,

The very first time I heard this song I was also struck by the reference to biblical texts.
In some way it reminded me of the struggle of Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane.
It was, among other, this sentence:
‘I can’t move this thing alone’.
But also the whole drift and feel of this beautiful song.

(Luke 22:42) "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

Tineke

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:34 am
by mirka
.
Sounds like a cosmic lullaby. I have been running it in the background for the last hour or so working on the computer, and I'm mesmerized by Leonard's voice. I'm sure the lyrics are as striking as the music, for now however I cannot afford to pay more attention, and to tell the truth as far as I'm concerned Leonard could sing alphabet :razz: :D


A calming soundscape to escape to.

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 7:45 pm
by TineDoes
mirka wrote:to tell the truth as far as I'm concerned Leonard could sing alphabet
Yes I probably would too ;-) . His voice and the music gets you inside where it matters no matter what words. But if truth be told, the knowledge that there is more to his songs than just the letters,the sound of the words, his voice and the melody (and the backing not to forget), and the idea that I have an inkling to their meaning, makes me 'adore ' his songs. Through this they touch me deeper than any other songs or voice I know and also makes that I want truly truly to listen.

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:23 pm
by holydove
Vicomte wrote: Sorry if momentarily this thread slides a little off the subject but talking of bizarre, holydove, where ever did you read, or were told, that the Jews were slaves in Egypt for "THOUSANDS OF YEARS" ?

I do agree with you though that Leonard's use of the word slaves in the song, were certainly not in any way, racist.

Vicomte, I apologize, that was a bizarre exaggeration. I'm usually very concerned with accuracy, I guess I got kind of carried away. So, not that this has anything to do with Leonard's song, but for the sake of accuracy, the general consensus is that the Jews were slaves for somewhere between 200 - 500 years (so I should have said "hundreds" instead of "thousands"). I am also aware that there is some controversy as to whether the Jews were actually ever enslaved by the Egyptians, but most Jews take the word of the Old Testament to be true, & believe that they were slaves for a few hundred years. There is also the question of how time was calculated/interpreted in the context of the Bible, so we don't really know what the term "year" means in that context (e.g. did people really have babies when they were 200 years old, as the Bible indicates). Anyway, this really has nothing to do with the song, I was just covering another potential base in illustrating the absurdity of any "racist" interpretation of the lyrics (& I also apologize for this extremely off-topic discussion!) The real point here is that, in the song, the word "slave" is obviously being used in a completely different context.

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2011 10:46 pm
by Vicomte
No problems holydove, apology gracefully accepted.

I had thought that it was a wee exaggeration and now how you put it in that post does seem a lot closer to what might be the truth, if we ever do get to know it ;-)
And of course agree with how the word "slave" is put from L.C

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:33 pm
by Jayne Sachs
After reading some of the posts regarding the production of this song, I think that most people (unless you've done studio work) may not realize that when a singer puts a vocal down, he or she is singing TO the music tracks. So in his earphones he is hearing the music tracks and he sings where and when he wants to sing. Of course his best takes (or parts of best takes) can be strung together (it's called being comp'd) and of course the engineer can digitally move his phrases around... but Leonard Cohen has always been a perfectionist... and this "moving around" would take place in the mixing phase of the production... where the levels of everything get placed... so you can BET that Leonard either placed his vocals (when singing) EXACTLY where he wanted them as he sang... or in the mixing phrase you can bet he was there to tell the engineer and producer EXACTLY where to place them. As for other comments regarding his use of words here and there, it is difficult for me analyze someone's art like that. Leonard chooses certain words or phrases because they convey the "feeling" of what he WANTS to convey. How can someone say that it isn't right? This blows me away. Can you look at a painting and say that streak of blue shouldn't be there? The streak of blue is there because it is what the artist FELT. If it doesn't feel right to you that is because you're not the artist. THIS song is exactly as it should be. That is what arts is. And I love it.

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:43 pm
by Goldin
Jayne Sachs, thanks for this post. These thoughts are very important to understand.

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:18 pm
by Harriet175
Jayne Sachs wrote:How can someone say that it isn't right? This blows me away. Can you look at a painting and say that streak of blue shouldn't be there? The streak of blue is there because it is what the artist FELT. If it doesn't feel right to you that is because you're not the artist. THIS song is exactly as it should be. That is what arts is. And I love it.
Yes, of course! nice comparison.
Still, i don’t think that the former critique about the (non-existent) “flaws” was meant in a patronizing way.
I understood some forum members and their comments in the way, that they actually meant that something didn’t feel right - to them, it sounded x ... to them, the streak of blue felt x ... to them. I admit the passage “Please fix this before its release” did make me smile. How can one fix a flaw that doesn't exist? ;-) Fortunately, “the streak of blue” will stay – nothing to be fixed! However, i find it valid, sometimes interesting, to hear about different associations about the blue – and even speculations about (non-existent) streaks of yellow may be allowed, why not?! Generally, a respectful freedom of thought makes life interesting and manifold, even in a forum, doesn’t it? Different people have different sensations at different times...i appreciate a respectful tolerance in a forum, and outside, too.

I am so glad that Leonard is in the position to choose the producer and collaborators himself. Otherwise the streak of blue might be missing indeed. Or even forbidden and punished.

and what to others may seem like “flaws”
to me, it is pure passion and perfection :razz:

Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:02 am
by JudasPriest
Sorry to have to repeat this but there is a glaring technical sonic glitch on the track. In fact, there is more than one but the most obvious is at the track's conclusion. Listen to it on a decent pair of headphones. I like the song and have no problem with the timing of Leonard's singing. It's all about the glaring volume fluctuations in the music. Very annoying. Let's hope there are future live versions to redeem matters.

Re: Fan Thoughts on

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:10 am
by LisaLCFan
JudasPriest wrote:Sorry to have to repeat this ...
We get it, you don't like this aspect of the recording. You really don't have to repeat it again, you've already said it numerous times, on numerous threads. :roll:

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:30 am
by nwflight
Brought me to tears instantly. The beauty of the song. 59 yr old man , this shouldn't be. Tears and a runny nose. Maybe the memory of good concerts, maybe as we age things we treasure are lost, but here is Leonard warming my soul again.

Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 4:44 pm
by JudasPriest
You're right Lisa. Some people didn't seem to understand exactly what I was referring to but I'll rest my case on that front and simply cross my fingers that the powers that be may have spotted, noted and even fixed the problem pre official release if such a thing were possible.

Roll on the end of Jan...

Re: Fan Thoughts on "Show Me The Place"

Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:23 pm
by 3mariza1
Impressive song, a prayer. Dark, deep voice, I think, on purpose is partly a whisper. Came mind: "From The Depths I shout to You, Lord, hear me," The backround of heavenly beautiful music and song, as with an angel with a choir together in pray
Interesting to listen to, beautiful.

Re: Fan Thoughts on

Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:32 am
by holydove
JudasPriest wrote:Sorry to have to repeat this but there is a glaring technical sonic glitch on the track. In fact, there is more than one but the most obvious is at the track's conclusion. Listen to it on a decent pair of headphones. I like the song and have no problem with the timing of Leonard's singing. It's all about the glaring volume fluctuations in the music. Very annoying. Let's hope there are future live versions to redeem matters.
JudasPriest, I don't think there is any glitch at all. Volume fluctuation is a musical dynamic that has been used by musicians, in various ways, for a very long time - ever since instruments started being made in a way that made more dramatic fluctuation possible, & now modern technology increases the possibilities. With the technology that Leonard has access to, I seriously doubt if anything on the recording is an accident, mistake, or glitch. IMHO, the changes in volume are quite deliberate, & I think Leonard uses this dynamic in a very unique, dramatic & beautiful way. Perhaps you have some preconceived notion of how it should sound, & that is getting in the way of your appreciation of how it actually does sound. For me, the changes in volume create some very intense emotional effects, & those changes are inextricably & perfectly intertwined with the lyrics. Perhaps you might try to dissolve your pre-conceived notions of how it "should" be, & listen with a more open mind. (I'm not trying to challenge your reaction, just trying to suggest something that might be helpful).