SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Leonard Cohen's previous album (January 2012)
User avatar
Harriet175
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: home is where the heart is

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Harriet175 »

The cover ... creating various feelings ...
it looks very striking to me with the unusual colour arrangement.
First it felt slightly alarming to me, the colours, some bizarre signal i did not know what to make of. Made me feel slightly uneasy.
And then it was combining the flashy red, the darker black – the shadows – with the much more comforting green, sunny and peaceful garden scene,
somehow redeeming and unifying.

To me also, the shadow of the photographer looks like a pregnant woman (i thought of Lorca).

one strange spontaneous thought i had when i looked at the striking colour combination of:
black – red – white
i was reminded of the Hakenkreuz / Swastika symbol (i am German, maybe that explains it :shock: ),
and what we associate with it: i wish it would just be an “old idea” belonging to the past - absent and obsolete in the presence

Nicole
oldideas [1600x1200].jpg
oldideas [1600x1200].jpg (53.27 KiB) Viewed 18487 times
Last edited by Harriet175 on Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
...a tune in my soul
and my heart the shape of a begging bowl


2008: 25 jul Lörrach, 29 oct Frankfurt 2009: 1 jul Cologn 2010: 3 sept Wiesbaden, 19 sept Strasbourg, 29 sept Dortmund, 1 oct Stuttgart
2012: 5 sept Berlin 6 sept Mönchengladbach 29+30 sept Paris 2013: 25 jun Oberhausen, 28 jun Mannheim, 14 jul Hamburg, 24 aug Zürich
User avatar
LisaLCFan
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by LisaLCFan »

Harriet175,

Wow, that is a rather bizarre association (a swastika? Seriously?). Not all ideas are worthy of public expression. :roll:
User avatar
bridger15
Posts: 2068
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:49 pm
Location: Los Angeles - ex Toronto
Contact:

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by bridger15 »

I think having a swastika here is offensive, especially when the offending image is twice the size of the album cover.
I think this image should be removed - leave the post text - just remove the image.

---Arlene
edit: Thank you
Last edited by bridger15 on Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2009-San Diego|Los Ang|Nashville|St Louis|Kansas City|LVegas|San Jose
2010-Gothenburg|Berlin|Ghentx2|Oaklandx2|Portland|LVegasx2
2012-Austinx2|Denver|Los Ang|Seattle|Portland

Arlene's Leonard Cohen Scrapbook http://onboogiestreet.blogspot.com
User avatar
Harriet175
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: home is where the heart is

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Harriet175 »

Just in case of misunderstanding:

I am not associating Leonard Cohen with the symbol – i was associating the colours on the cover with the colours of the symbol. They reminded me of it.
The black-red-white colours on the cover are very striking, to me.

Besides, this symbol stands very much for “old ideas” – the ideas from our very recent history.

It’s no use to repress or ban it – better to be aware of it, and what it stands for.
Hence, to me worthy of public expression.

peace & love Nicole

Hello Arlene,

i removed the picture. i had tried to make it very tiny before posting it the 1st time - but was unable to, technically.

IMO the colour association is not at all offensive. The symbol stands very much for old (historical) ideas.

i had read a lot about this period of the world history - also over years in school (my religion teacher was Jewish, so the main topic he chose for years was the Nazis and their crimes against humanity), and i am grateful for it, to me it is very important to be aware of it – a lot to learn from.
(Sadly, it is not just an old idea, still actual nowadays, in the news ...even if people don't like to hear about it - which to me is understandable, but not helpful)
Last edited by Harriet175 on Sat Dec 03, 2011 3:22 am, edited 3 times in total.
...a tune in my soul
and my heart the shape of a begging bowl


2008: 25 jul Lörrach, 29 oct Frankfurt 2009: 1 jul Cologn 2010: 3 sept Wiesbaden, 19 sept Strasbourg, 29 sept Dortmund, 1 oct Stuttgart
2012: 5 sept Berlin 6 sept Mönchengladbach 29+30 sept Paris 2013: 25 jun Oberhausen, 28 jun Mannheim, 14 jul Hamburg, 24 aug Zürich
User avatar
Marino
Posts: 13
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 5:37 pm
Location: Brasilia, Brazil
Contact:

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Marino »

Harriet175, you are crazy and your post is offensive to all of forum members.
User avatar
musicmania
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Kildare Town Ireland
Contact:

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by musicmania »

Sometimes it is best to keep ones thoughts and opinions to oneself. I am just glad I did not see that image.
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2

Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/

"I did my best, it wasn't much"
User avatar
Harriet175
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: home is where the heart is

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Harriet175 »

There is nothing wrong with the Swastika symbol as such, it is a very old cultural symbol dating back more than 6000 years.
It was abused by the Nazis late in the 20th century. Staying in Asia, you encounter it everywhere...

The swastika (wikipedia):
Earliest archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization of Ancient India as well as Classical Antiquity. Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a tantric symbol to evoke 'shakti' or the sacred symbol of good luck. The swastika is also a Chinese character used in East Asia representing eternity and Buddhism.
...a tune in my soul
and my heart the shape of a begging bowl


2008: 25 jul Lörrach, 29 oct Frankfurt 2009: 1 jul Cologn 2010: 3 sept Wiesbaden, 19 sept Strasbourg, 29 sept Dortmund, 1 oct Stuttgart
2012: 5 sept Berlin 6 sept Mönchengladbach 29+30 sept Paris 2013: 25 jun Oberhausen, 28 jun Mannheim, 14 jul Hamburg, 24 aug Zürich
User avatar
musicmania
Posts: 1517
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:49 pm
Location: Kildare Town Ireland
Contact:

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by musicmania »

I've previously read the history of the Swastika but because of the abuse of its use by the Nazi's it will always be associated with them in the Western world. Regardless of the history behind it the first thoughts that will come to our minds when we see it will be the atrocities of WW2.
2009 Dublin 2010 Lissadell Katowice LV x2 2012 Ghent x2 Dublin x4 Montreal x2 Toronto x2 2013 New York x2 Brussels Dublin x2

Gwen's Leonard Cohen Journey: http://myleonardcohenjourney.wordpress.com/

"I did my best, it wasn't much"
User avatar
somewhat_nifty
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:23 am
Location: London, UK

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by somewhat_nifty »

The swastika itself is an ancient symbol, but the colours that Harriet175 was referring to are only associated with the National Socialists in this context, not with the swastika per se. Posting it in this specific form in this particular forum was always going to cause offence.
I'm chained to the old masquerade...
2008: London O2 14th Nov, RAH 18th Nov; 2009: NY RCMH 16th May, Weybridge MBW 11th July, Barcelona 21st Sept; 2010: Sligo 31st July, Lille 25th Sept, Las Vegas 11th Dec; 2012: Wembley Arena 8th Sept, Dublin 11th Sept 2013: London O2 21st June, London O2 14th Sept
User avatar
Harriet175
Posts: 45
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2009 8:31 pm
Location: home is where the heart is

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Harriet175 »

Hello, all i wrote above was that, to me, the colours Black – Red – White stand out on the album cover (contrasting with the green).
When i had seen the cover for the very 1st time, one association (out of many) was that the colour combination Black-Red-White reminded me of the colours of the Nazi flag
– which is not an opinion, neither offending anyone, it just happens to be that way –

i do not find such a reference, associated because of the colours, offending in any way. I did never associate L.C. with the flag, of course (which would be absurd).

i was born many decades after the end of WW2, still i grew up being conscious of the Nazi flag (for education purposes, thanks to my former Jewish teacher only (!), other teachers ignored the period rather). yes the whole flag has become a symbol indeed. And the Swastika symbol inside is abused, to the extent that people do not recognize it as an ancient symbol anymore (in Asia they still do). Only mentioning the word “Swastika” seems like waving a red flag to a bull. IMO the cross as a symbol was abused, too, but still displayed. A German friend i showed the album cover to had the same association with the flag (without being a LC fan), so i am not alone.

IMO the colour combination Black- Red-White is often associated with drama, war, power ...it looks strong, sometimes unsettling. The same colours were used after the recent tsunami catastrophy, e.g. patches, the prayer flag.
sitting samurai [1600x1200].jpg
sitting samurai [1600x1200].jpg (18.73 KiB) Viewed 18342 times
Strength Patch [1600x1200].jpg
Strength Patch [1600x1200].jpg (32.59 KiB) Viewed 18342 times
inori prayer flag [1600x1200].jpg
inori prayer flag [1600x1200].jpg (21.67 KiB) Viewed 18342 times
it would be kind to allow people some freedom of thought instead of telling gently to shut up.
i am aware that tolerance is not some forum members strong point, when emotions are stirred.

Some forum members before said: the cover looks only bright and postive, but it was also mentioned the cover would look creepy, some associations with death –
(although Leonard is very much alive – and no-one found this association offensive)
So obviously different people feel differently about colours and colour arrangements, and about the album cover as such! Which should be respected IMO

I like the cover a lot, it’s very thought provoking and interesting. To me, it looks intriguing because of the colour play - but i don’t find it “only pretty” or “only sunshine”.
...a tune in my soul
and my heart the shape of a begging bowl


2008: 25 jul Lörrach, 29 oct Frankfurt 2009: 1 jul Cologn 2010: 3 sept Wiesbaden, 19 sept Strasbourg, 29 sept Dortmund, 1 oct Stuttgart
2012: 5 sept Berlin 6 sept Mönchengladbach 29+30 sept Paris 2013: 25 jun Oberhausen, 28 jun Mannheim, 14 jul Hamburg, 24 aug Zürich
User avatar
Mabeanie1
Posts: 2782
Joined: Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:03 am
Location: UK

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Mabeanie1 »

This thread is a place to discuss the cover and content of Leonard's forthcoming new album, "Old Ideas".

Nicole, you are entitled to your view and you have had your say. Sadly, your comments have led to the thread heading off in an unwelcome direction and it would be a shame if it simply became a discussion of the meaning of certain ancient and/or political symbols.

Let's get back to discussing Leonard's artistic output.

Wendy
Last edited by Mabeanie1 on Mon Dec 05, 2011 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
LisaLCFan
Posts: 2515
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by LisaLCFan »

I was recently in Montreal, and today I was reminded of that great city's coat of arms. Leonard Cohen is doubtlessly aware of this image. Perhaps it may have been part of the inspiration for his stunning new album cover?
Attachments
montreal coat of arms.jpg
montreal coat of arms.jpg (7.33 KiB) Viewed 18263 times
hadley
Posts: 60
Joined: Mon Jul 12, 2010 11:21 pm

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by hadley »

I think the red shadow of the photographer represents the ego, and also is kind of a reminder that everybody sees the same thing differently (therefore if another person were the photographer then the red shadow would look different.) Normally in photographs or life in general we are unaware of the subject looking at the object and the effect that has on what we think we are seeing. Kind of ironic with everyone here, myself included, arguing about what they personally are seeing when looking at the cover :lol:

The lack of red shadow on Leonard could symbolise the temporary disolving of the ego while he was engrossed in reading the book, or a not so temporary disolving of the sense of self due to years of spritual practice. I guess it's red because of the danger and trouble that the ego can cause....... or maybe Leonard just liked the colour :lol:
User avatar
Roy
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:11 pm
Location: Ottawa and Fort Lauderdale
Contact:

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Roy »

Now in Stores

Rolling Stone Magazine with David Bowie on the cover and Leonard Cohen's name. Old Ideas reviewed by Rolling Stone 4 STARS and 1/2 STAR out of 5.
LEONARD COHEN | HALLS OF FAME
The Official Halls of Fame Biographies of Leonard Cohen
http://www.leonardcohenhallsoffame.blogspot.com
User avatar
Roy
Posts: 758
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:11 pm
Location: Ottawa and Fort Lauderdale
Contact:

Re: SONGS AND COVER OF OLD IDEAS

Post by Roy »

Image

NOW IN STORES

ROLLING STONE REVIEWS OLD IDEAS BY LEONARD COHEN
LEONARD COHEN | HALLS OF FAME
The Official Halls of Fame Biographies of Leonard Cohen
http://www.leonardcohenhallsoffame.blogspot.com
Post Reply

Return to “OLD IDEAS”