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disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:23 am
by brian4muza
In the 70s I loved his music and words, inspirational, then I wondered sometimes. His character didn't always fit his projected image, e.g. never any bonus material, no tours for years, was he married or not, bodyguards and no contact address (fans, wake up!) Then in Poland he sold a record amount for a new album. His reaction? A private guest slot for one of his singers (they're always so embarrassing on stage with their doe-eyed expressions, they should keep their bedroom eyes for the bedroom) on radio, not for the public. So much for Poland (where his grandfather came from!), no concerts, just a 'Cheese and Wine party'. Final nail in the coffin: he needs to tour to get more than his last 100,000 bucks because trusted a crook manager. Incredible! HUGE ticket prices, how obvious, how vulgar can anyone get, especially in these crisis times. Everybody Knows Lennie, Everybody Knows. Do you REALLY think that the song is merit-worthy, a culmination of SIXTY YEARS of writing?! Words from a girl's High-School notebook, out of tune voice. (I agree he was a poet not a singer, but the latter way is how he makes his money.) Such a pity that the creativity died years ago. Is the album for the next million in the savings bank? Fans, ask yourself a simple question: can you name one single thing he did for you, rather than use? So long Cohenman, it's time we laughed, and cried, and laughed about it all again....

no criticism, only sycophantism?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 12:25 am
by brian4muza
Contents of this message deleted at brian4muza's request

Re: no criticism, only sycophantism?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:21 am
by Andrew (Darby)
I think there's enough maturity and tolerance in this place to allow for criticism and disaffection.

It's just not so usual... though we have to accept other people's reality. ;-)

Cheers,
Andrew :)

Re: no criticism, only sycophantism?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:25 am
by tomsakic
Hey brian4muza, I don't know what are you referring to, but e.g. check all the criticism re: Show Me the Place in the thread about the song. If anywhere, the most direct and open criticism over the years LC has received here. I agree there are plenty of new fans (= new Forum members who came during 2008-10) tours especially in the US, but that doesn't make it "sycophant". E.g. LC pressed Sony to remove the video for the first single and correct an error they made, after we wrote here about it. Etc. Even now, in new thread re: Darkness, you have some harsh criticism of song's production by one member.

Re: no criticism, only sycophantism?

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 1:40 am
by LisaLCFan
There is criticism, and then there is just bashing. From your other post, it sounds like you just want to bash. I always thought that a forum was a place for people who enjoyed something or someone's work to gather and talk about what they love. If you don't like it, then why bother? What do you have to gain by coming here and saying such things? If people want to love everything that Leonard Cohen does, without criticism, so what? You have insulted them and you have insulted Mr. Cohen (in your other post), and I really do not understand why you felt the need to come here and do that.

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:59 am
by lightasabreeze
The men in their white coats from the funny farm will be along to pick you up later.

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 2:42 pm
by Mabeanie1
You are, of course, entitled to your opinion brian4muza. However, I do wonder why you went to the trouble of joining the Leonard Cohen Forum to express it.

Yawn .....

Wendy

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 5:18 pm
by brightnow
Yes, we have a hater! It could only be a sign that Leonard's work is getting even more popular.

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 8:06 pm
by Tony Crosbie
You go your way Brian4muza - you'll be on your own.

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Fri Jan 13, 2012 11:35 pm
by Stamatina
brian4muza wrote:Fans, ask yourself a simple question: can you name one single thing he did for you, rather than use?
I can name a zillion freaking things, but you don't really care for music, do you?
brightnow wrote:Yes, we have a hater! It could only be a sign that Leonard's work is getting even more popular.
I agree with that! I actually almost got irritated at the first post of this topic, but gradually my anger turned into laughter and I thought - ok, some people are idiots, it's just how things are.

I also found the negative comments on the "The Darkness" on soundcloud equally amusing. :razz:

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 12:47 am
by st theresa1
It's interesting --for years I thought I was all alone with my love for LC. Well except for other family members, that is. Many people sneered when I said I liked his music. My sister had the experience of having a community college teacher tell her that Leonard was not a real poet. Anyway--then I found this forum and was almost disappointed that I was only one of so many fans --now my thoughts of meeting him and thanking him for his work seemed like true fantasy. Finding this forum coincided with my discovery of Ten New Songs or at least pretty close to that time. Oddly for me both Ten New Songs and Dear Heather--reflected my own spiritual growth back to me and made me feel as if Leonard was so much more than a poet or singer. Not everyone felt that way, and since not everyone had grown up with Leonard, I could forgive them Brian 4musa--I am so sorry that you have lost your appreciation for the man--that is a loss indeed. Far from idolatry, I find that as I have grown older, I have come to accept Leonard's weaknesses along with his greatness. I prefer to see that as a sign of maturity in myself rather than a failing in him. I do not try to fathom his motivations, I can hardly fathom my own.

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 2:32 am
by lizzytysh
Excellent words, Theresa.

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 4:13 am
by Gullivor
brian4muza,

Everyone is allowed an opinion. I respect that.

But why come on a fan club site to express a criticizing opinion unless one is resentful at Leonard and looking to get a reaction from his fans.

What did Leonard or his fans ever do to you?

If you are a music or poetry critic may I suggest you write about your opinion in your column. Not on a fan club site.

Re: disappointment with the man and his music

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 6:09 pm
by david birkett
Albeit that the original post was somewhat bitter and harsh in tone, it was set in the context of the writer's previous admiration for Cohen and his works. This alone surely grants the post legitimacy on a 'fan forum' (if, indeed, that's what this is?). Let's not genetically modify Cohen into a sacred cow: I thought 'Dear Heather' was disappointing, in that it contained what for me were many indifferent or poor songs, and I don't think there's a single album of undiluted genius. Having said all that, Cohen is still for me the supreme Anglophone modern songwriter.

There is of course always the fiendish possibility that the post was made ironically to foment discussion or elicit outrage. Innocent soul that I am, I am informed by more worldly voices that this is a relatively common practice in the virtual world. Ah, those scamps.

Peace.

Re: no criticism, only sycophantism?

Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2012 11:48 pm
by annmarie
LisaLCFan wrote:There is criticism, and then there is just bashing. From your other post, it sounds like you just want to bash. I always thought that a forum was a place for people who enjoyed something or someone's work to gather and talk about what they love. If you don't like it, then why bother? What do you have to gain by coming here and saying such things? If people want to love everything that Leonard Cohen does, without criticism, so what? You have insulted them and you have insulted Mr. Cohen (in your other post), and I really do not understand why you felt the need to come here and do that.
I totally agree. I think this is a wind up by some real SADDO. :( :( :( :( :( :(
If he/she is no longer a fan, then Mr Cohen is at no loss. There is a whole new generation of dedicated fans, who appreciate him for what he was/is and will always be........The Greatest!
Anne