Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Ask and answer questions about Leonard Cohen, his work, this forum and the websites!
MaryB
Posts: 3970
Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:40 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by MaryB » Thu Nov 18, 2010 12:27 am

Lisa,
You and I must both look suspicious, as I have also gotten the full body treatment a number of times. It was always done by a female TSA agent and over the clothes while she was explaining what she would be doing (not that her talking would make it better). I have no problem with them doing this, would opt for the machine scan if available. The only problem I have with this are the choices that are being made in who to scan.
1993 Detroit 2008 Kitchener June 2-Hamilton June 3 & 4-Vienna Sept 24 & 25-London RAH Nov 17 2009 NYC Feb 19-Grand Prairie Apr 3-Phoenix Apr 5-Columbia May 11-Red Rocks Jun 4-Barcelona Sept 21-Columbus Oct 27-Las Vegas Nov 12-San Jose Nov 13 2010 Sligo Jul 31 & Aug 1-LV Dec 10 & 11 2012 Paris Sept 30-London Dec 11-Boston Dec 16 2013 Louisville Mar 30-Amsterdam Sept 20
User avatar
LisaLCFan
Posts: 1786
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by LisaLCFan » Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:38 am

MaryB wrote:Lisa, You and I must both look suspicious...
Yeah, sure we do! More likely, we're just unlucky! I actually have a HUGE problem with them doing this, but I wouldn't dare voice that belief at an airport, for fear of being thrown in jail or fined or otherwise having even more rights stripped from me for absolutely no good reason at all (or, in the case of my upcoming trip to Las Vegas, for fear of missing the concerts!).

Can't wait to see you all there!
User avatar
hydriot
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:07 am
Location: back in the UK

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by hydriot » Sun Nov 21, 2010 6:15 pm

Surely, the primary reason to refuse a full body scan has nothing to do with privacy and everything to do with the fact that you are going to suffer a significant dose of radiation, and radiation can cause cancer? When I was a child, there used to be X-ray machines in shoe-shops that you would stick your feet into to check if the shoes fitted well: they have all been removed on health grounds. And today I am always struck by the way that when I have an X-ray at the dentist, just for a few teeth, the dentist and his technician retreat behind a screen and press a remote-control button.

If your body appears as a shadow on the screen, that is because the rays are not passing through you, and if they are not passing through you that is because they are being stopped by something. If that something is clothing, fine. But if that something is a cell in your body, then that cell is likely to have been damaged by the ray and might (or might not) start a cancer. Personally, I prefer to keep the number of 'mights' in my life to a minimum.

Can you choose the gender of the person who pats you down? Can I pretend to be gay, so that I can say I find being touched by another male sexually offensive/arousing and insist on being touched up by an attractive young woman instead? Can I then complain that she has not been thorough enough, and insist she repeats the pat-down?
“If you do have love it's a kind of wound, and if you don't have it it's worse.” - Leonard, July 1988
User avatar
KaimiK
Posts: 275
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:23 pm
Location: Washington

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by KaimiK » Mon Nov 22, 2010 4:00 am

hydriot - Naughty, naughty you! :lol: I read on the TSA website that you are supposed to be frisked by someone of the same gender. But, in reading some real-life experiences, if the appropriate TSA agent isn't available, you may end up with someone of the opposite sex. Really though, a TSA agent???! I know they're in uniform, but didn't think that would appeal to many - to each his/her own, I guess! :D

As far as the radiation, "they" say that the dose is extremely low. The TSA claims it is equivalent to 2 minutes in an airplane at altitude. I believe I read a comment by a MIT professor that said it was more like 20 minutes at altitude. Supposedly safe, but as you say, no amount of radiation is best. And their estimates are accurate only if the machine is calibrated correctly, operated correctly and is functioning correctly. Because radiation is cumulative, it would have a much greater impact on a younger child, which is why my kids will not be going through it. TSA just verified that children under 12 will not receive the enhanced pat-down, thank goodness or we would just opt to not fly in the future. I have to say though that as much as I prefer to not be irradiated, the privacy is also a big concern for me. They've already found instances of inappropriate comments traveling from the agent at the machine to the operator (via headset) looking at your naked bod in another room!

But, more than anything it's the principle behind all this. We have rights and when a government exerts that much control over the populace that we are bullied into having our Constitutional rights, not to mention other state-protected rights, violated, that's a dangerous point to come to. There are better ways to protect our safety. When we're afraid to stand up for what is right because we fear what will be done to us, that's a sad state of affairs. I feel like a "sheeple", but don't know what else to do other than to write our representatives and to try to spread the word. Or perhaps, we should all wear Speedos or a thong bikini next time we go to the airport! Wouldn't have much to search then, would they?

Still going to Las Vegas though! See what we'll go through for Leonard?! :D
You let me sing, you lifted me up, you gave my soul a beam to travel on. You folded your distance back into my heart.
User avatar
lightasabreeze
Posts: 601
Joined: Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:55 pm
Location: London

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by lightasabreeze » Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:41 pm

We were molested, up, down and all around when going to New york last month, Then I thought, I wonder if I go through the scanner it will detect if I have any serious illness showing up - Save me going on a hospital waiting list !
Somebody must have died for you
A Thousand Kisses Deep

London 02 x 3..... Radio city New York... Wet Weybridge..... Wembley Arena... Brighton..
User avatar
neo
Posts: 371
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2007 3:17 am
Location: Vienna

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by neo » Tue Nov 23, 2010 1:47 pm

That's the way it's to be done! :lol:


Image
Dino Soldo demonstrates the new TSA approved slap down, no wait, pat down procedure on Roscoe Beck.

The airport staff are counting the minutes until we reboard.

*Adelaide, Australia
What sad religions they want us to believe.
User avatar
hydriot
Posts: 881
Joined: Sun May 21, 2006 3:07 am
Location: back in the UK

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by hydriot » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:06 am

KaimiK wrote:They've already found instances of inappropriate comments traveling from the agent at the machine to the operator (via headset) looking at your naked bod in another room!
An important legal question. My naked body is extremely ugly. If viewing it causes distress to an operator, am I in danger of being prosecuted for causing emotional damage? Will I have to compensate the US Government if said employee has to take days off sick because of the horror he or she was forced to witness? Can I protect myself from litigation by declaring in advance just how many rolls of flesh constitute my beer-belly, so that the operator can choose to look away from the screen at the dreadful moment without risking dismissal?
“If you do have love it's a kind of wound, and if you don't have it it's worse.” - Leonard, July 1988
User avatar
LisaLCFan
Posts: 1786
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 9:24 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by LisaLCFan » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:36 am

I suppose that "Memories" can become the official song of airport security (and the official song of airline passengers who refuse the scanner and opt for a pat-down).
User avatar
mnkyface
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 11:16 pm
Location: California

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by mnkyface » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:49 am

LisaLCFan wrote:I suppose that "Memories" can become the official song of airport security (and the official song of airline passengers who refuse the scanner and opt for a pat-down).
:lol: :lol: :lol:
"In this world of shallow, he is the abyss."~ YouTube commenter greg450318
________________________________________________________________
Lyon, July 2008 / Oakland x2, April 2009 / San Jose, November 2009 / Oakland, December 2010 / San Jose, November 2012 / Oakland, March 2013
User avatar
somewhat_nifty
Posts: 688
Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:23 am
Location: London, UK

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by somewhat_nifty » Wed Nov 24, 2010 4:40 pm

Maybe a pair of these would help...
Fig-leaf underpants – the new weapon against America's airport body scanners
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... y-scanners
I'm chained to the old masquerade...
2008: London O2 14th Nov, RAH 18th Nov; 2009: NY RCMH 16th May, Weybridge MBW 11th July, Barcelona 21st Sept; 2010: Sligo 31st July, Lille 25th Sept, Las Vegas 11th Dec; 2012: Wembley Arena 8th Sept, Dublin 11th Sept 2013: London O2 21st June, London O2 14th Sept
User avatar
sturgess66
Posts: 4110
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:50 pm
Location: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by sturgess66 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 5:38 pm

User avatar
Byron
Posts: 3171
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by Byron » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:02 pm

The first rule of any government is to protect its citizens. Not 'citizen,' but citizens. Mass transport systems are now the chosen methods which citizens use to get from A to B, when A is a long way from B.
Speaking as a citizen about my fellow travelling citizens, I know that I am not a security risk. However, I cannot vouch for the other citizens who are about to travel with me in a mass transport vehicle. (of any kind)
I (that is me !! ) want my government, and your government, to protect me from a rogue citizen within my chosen form of mass transit vehicle.
I don't know who you are. You don't know who I am. We don't know anyone who is about to travel with us. (excepting close friends and family of course)
Therefore, I demand that my government, and yours, does everything possible to protect me.
To anyone, who does not respect my safety on our shared travels, because of their fear, embarrassment, discomfort, slight-loss-of-dignity, principles, moral outrage, etc., I would ask them politely to stop being so selfish.
Nobody enjoys the trauma of a pat-down or body-scan, or both. The employees who are paid to do it are being thorough, on our behalf. They are the same as you and I. Human beings. Some are not pleasant to us. Some are very pleasant to us. Yes, they really are human beings.
Stand in line; take your shoes and belts off; let the security staff do their job properly; be thankful that they have been as thorough with every other citizen as they are being with you. Then you and I can enjoy our journey in the knowledge that, a few moments of close physical scrutiny has allowed us to sit with our fellow passengers in relative peace.
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
User avatar
Byron
Posts: 3171
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by Byron » Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:21 pm

Many years ago we went to Israel for a holiday. The security measures employed at the airports (departure and return) were extremely rigorous. I shall not go into detail, but be it sufficient to say that, we have never had to undergo such invasive and intrusive searches and questioning as we did then. Every passenger was questioned at length. Every piece of clothing and every bag was thoroughly examined. Young men soldiers and young women soldiers stood guard with loaded weapons. I shall never forget those procedures that we went through. Why ??? Because I have never felt as safe and secure as I did then. A pat-down and a body-scan are comparatively benign by comparison.
The holiday was fantastic. :)
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
seadove
Posts: 2084
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:06 am
Location: Israel
Contact:

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by seadove » Thu Nov 25, 2010 9:14 am

I know what you are talking about, Byron. Being an Israeli (and a very proud one at that) I feel very confident that we are frisked upon entering malls and public institutes, and I must admit that I have never felt any intimate contacts of any sort and at any time. The ladies get their personal bags seacrched while the gents get a hand scan by some sort of an electronic device. And I get quite annoyed sometimes when the security gets a bit slack and unthorough. I feel that the guy was not doing his job at all and that makes me feel insecure.

So for the the sake of security and personal quietness it is very necessary for these measures be made. We don't have any choice here, do we?
User avatar
Byron
Posts: 3171
Joined: Tue Nov 26, 2002 3:01 pm
Location: Mad House, Eating Tablets, Cereals, Jam, Marmalade and HONEY, with Albert

Re: Way off topic question - full body scanner at LV airport

Post by Byron » Thu Nov 25, 2010 6:04 pm

seadove, I remember how we were searched when entering any shopping mall or other public building wherever we went. Like you, I too got so used to it that I found myself watching if the other members of the public received the same measure of scrutiny. Passing through security measures became second nature in no time, and did not hinder our enjoyment of our trip there.
One image stands out in my mind after all these years, and that is of a Hercules flying beneath me (and beneath sea level) as we stood atop Masada. An incredible piece of flying. 8)
Alas and alack, the ride to the summit on the cable car was not to my liking, especially when I discovered as I got off at the top, that I had to walk along a series of wooden planks to arrive at the summit. The return journey was much easier. I shut my eyes and friends held my hand as they led me along the planks and into the cable car, where I sat in the middle surrounded by everybody. Yes, I'm terrified of heights........ :(
"Bipolar is a roller-coaster ride without a seat belt. One day you're flying with the fireworks; for the next month you're being scraped off the trolley" I said that.
Post Reply

Return to “Comments & Questions”