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jmflash
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News Story

Post by jmflash » Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:41 am

In my hands there is a message to remind you that justice is a duty towards those whom you love and those whom you do not. And people's rights will not be harmed if the opponent speaks out about them. The greatest rule of safety is justice, and stopping injustice and aggression. It was said: Oppression kills the oppressors and the hotbed of injustice is evil. The situation in occupied Palestine is an example....

It is known that security is a pressing necessity for all mankind. We do not agree that you should monopolise it only for yourselves. Also, vigilant people do not allow their politicians to tamper with their security. Having said this, we would like to inform you that labelling us and our acts as terrorism is also a description of you and of your acts. Reaction comes at the same level as the original action. Our acts are reaction to your own acts, which are represented by the destruction and killing of our kinfolk in Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine. The act that horrified the world; that is, the killing of the old, handicapped Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, may God have mercy on him, is sufficient evidence....

Which religion considers your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water? Reciprocal treatment is fair and the one who starts injustice bears greater blame. As for your politicians and those who have followed their path, who insist on ignoring the real problem of occupying the entirety of Palestine and exaggerate lies and falsification regarding our right in defence and resistance, they do not respect themselves. They also disdain the blood and minds of peoples. This is because their falsification increases the shedding of your blood instead of sparing it. Moreover, the examining of the developments that have been taking place, in terms of killings in our countries and your countries, will make clear an important fact; namely, that injustice is inflicted on us and on you by your politicians, who send your sons - although you are opposed to this - to our countries to kill and be killed. Therefore, it is in both sides' interest to curb the plans of those who shed the blood of peoples for their narrow personal interest and subservience to the White House gang. We must take into consideration that this war brings billions of dollars in profit to the major companies, whether it be those that produce weapons or those that contribute to reconstruction, such as the Halliburton Company, its sisters and daughters. Based on this, it is very clear who is the one benefiting from igniting this war and from the shedding of blood. It is the warlords, the bloodsuckers, who are steering the world policy from behind a curtain....

The door of reconciliation is open for three months of the date of announcing this statement. For those who reject reconciliation and want war, we are ready. As for those who want reconciliation, we have given them a chance. Stop shedding our blood so as to preserve your blood. It is in your hands to apply this easy, yet difficult, formula. You know that the situation will expand and increase if you delay things. If this happens, do not blame us - blame yourselves.

A rational person does not relinquish his security, money and children to please the liar of the White House. Had he been truthful about his claim for peace, he would not describe the person who ripped open pregnant women in Sabra and Shatila and the destroyer of the capitulation process as a man of peace. He also would not have lied to people and said that we hate freedom and kill for the sake of killing. Reality proves our truthfulness and his lie. The killing of the Russians was after their invasion of Afghanistan and Chechnya; the killing of Europeans was after their invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan; and the killing of Americans on the day of New York was after their support of the Jews in Palestine and their invasion of the Arabian Peninsula. Also, killing them in Somalia was after their invasion of it in Operation Restore Hope. We made them leave without hope, praise be to God.

It is said that prevention is better than cure. A happy person is he who learns a lesson from the experience of others. Heeding right is better than persisting in falsehood. Peace be upon those who follow guidance.

-This was written by a Saudi man named Osama Bin Laden

What did you expect?
Oversize incisors?
Green saliva?
Madness?
Last edited by jmflash on Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:23 am, edited 2 times in total.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Apr 20, 2004 2:41 am

Hi jm ~

Could you do a paragraphically-challenged person a huge favour and break this message up into them for easier readability, even if the original did not come in that fashion? I would soooo appreciate it, as I'd really like to read it, but something happens on the comprehension level when there are no breaks, logical or otherwise. Thanks so much !!!

~ Lizzy
Epurcelly
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Post by Epurcelly » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:29 am

Good god man...At first, I thought you had written that jm. That is crazy...
ep
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Post by bee » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:34 am

Epu, that's right, I felt same way, :shock: written by a crazy devil :twisted: scary.
bee
jmflash
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Post by jmflash » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:20 pm

You go into their countries, you kill their children, then one of them stands up and fights back and you call him a crazy devil. I do not agree with bin Laden that reciprocal treatment is fair, or that any violence can ever be justified, but I also don't think that bin Laden is a monster. The media uses his image as if he is the scum of the earth. He says here that he offers peace for those who want peace and he offers war for those who want war. I have seen much worse than this.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:47 pm

Thank you jm for breaking it into paragraphs for me. Let's also consider for a moment that at one time he was our 'good guy,' 'our bud'.

I also don't consider these the rantings of a madman. Some of the statements/questions that I wholly agree with are these:

"It is known that security is a pressing necessity for all mankind. We do not agree that you should monopolise it only for yourselves. Also, vigilant people do not allow their politicians to tamper with their security."

"Having said this, we would like to inform you that labelling us and our acts as terrorism is also a description of you and of your acts."

"Which religion considers your killed ones innocent and our killed ones worthless? And which principle considers your blood real blood and our blood water?"

"Moreover, the examining of the developments that have been taking place, in terms of killings in our countries and your countries, will make clear an important fact; namely, that injustice is inflicted on us and on you by your politicians, who send your sons - although you are opposed to this - to our countries to kill and be killed. Therefore, it is in both sides' interest to curb the plans of those who shed the blood of peoples for their narrow personal interest and subservience to the White House gang. We must take into consideration that this war brings billions of dollars in profit to the major companies, whether it be those that produce weapons or those that contribute to reconstruction, such as the Halliburton Company, its sisters and daughters. Based on this, it is very clear who is the one benefiting from igniting this war and from the shedding of blood. It is the warlords, the bloodsuckers, who are steering the world policy from behind a curtain...."

"A rational person does not relinquish his security, money and children to please the liar of the White House. Had he been truthful about his claim for peace, he would not describe the person who ripped open pregnant women in Sabra and Shatila and the destroyer of the capitulation process as a man of peace. He also would not have lied to people and said that we hate freedom and kill for the sake of killing. Reality proves our truthfulness and his lie."

There are some others, but I'd have to nip and tuck, and qualify, them in some way, by adding to them. These stand on their own, from my perspective. This is well-trodden ground for me to make these kinds of comments, of course ~ and is probably the reason that, from time to time, I get some e-mail asking me if I'm interested in putting some huge sum of money, into the millions, in my bank account ~ from elsewhere with 'suspicious' sounding names. I always get the feeling someone's trolling the Internet ~ 'terrorists' looking for money-holding sources, or the CIA [oh dear, how does one tell those apart :? ?] ~ at any rate, let it be known, I'm not interested, so don't e-mail me with offers.

As I'm recalling, I've seen this ~ or something very similar by him ~ a long time ago. I get the feeling [though may be wrong] that this was written a while back. At any rate, this seems to be the same bin Laden that we at one time wholly supported ~ including the necessary weaponry to kill the [ever-changing] 'bad guy.'

~ Elizabeth
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Post by Paula » Tue Apr 20, 2004 5:57 pm

He offers us nothing but stalemate and dogma. Whose to say who is mad and who isn't. I have no faith in the western powers either.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:43 pm

You're right [in the 'must qualify' category] that his eye for an eye ~ with the gouge even deeper ~ would as Gandhi said, simply leave the world blind.
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Partisan
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Post by Partisan » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:51 pm

Really good propaganda mixes the truth with fiction.
One may smile and smile and be a villain.
Here endeth today's lesson.

p.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:54 pm

Right on both counts, partisan.
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Tue Apr 20, 2004 7:02 pm

Give me a f---ing break!!!
This guy is a medieval madman who is simply taking advantage of the real problems. He DOES NOT speak for the East or the Muslim world. In his world all women would be confined to indoors.
Some of you are far too impressionable. Indeed you are guilty of giving a bad name to all Muslims by giving credibility to this guy. I repeat, he DOES NOT speak for the East.
I will not post on this thread again.
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:03 pm

We're so adept at dehumanizing and villifying people. There is tons of propaganda on both sides of the glass. Those civilizations over there are [literally] ancient, and violence [amongst themselves and against others] has played a strong part in them. Our civilization is literally very young, and our violence [amongst ourselves and against others] is better cloaked. We deny people medical care, etc. ~ the list is way too long to try to compile here, but that at least gives an idea.

I'm not endorsing what bin Laden has said. His position is very polarized. However, he has made some good points, and I'm acknowledging them, as well as recognizing the humanity of the people about whom he speaks.
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:14 pm

L....can you just one time say something positive about US?
Just once...surprise me !!

I guess I did post again.

p.s. those 'ancient civilizations' over there....it's in my blood. No need to educate me about those 'ancient civilizations' over there.
The thing is you always think the grass is greener on the other side...
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:46 pm

OK, Kush ~

I was born in the U.S.A. :D [not to quote a certain singer I know of]. I know that's not necessarily going to be considered a 'positive,' of course :wink: . Seriously, on the War Is Hell thread, I lamented ~ early on ~ how the U.S. I grew up with and loved, and thought it to ever be, has gone directions that break my heart. My unawareness in my youth didn't mean it wasn't happening then, either. However, my references to the positives can still be considered as still pretty much there. There are certainly positives. No question. But, when other people, from around the world, are being looked down upon as heathens and unworthies, my hackles rise. I just can't help it! We judge and we judge and we judge. Then, we change our minds ~ look the direction from whence we've just come ~ and we judge and we judge and we judge some more. Many of the 'games' over there are ones we've tried to cleverly play to our advantage. Recent history is filled with successful and failed attempts. I don't think it should be overlooked that we had previously considered bin Laden a friend, and supported him substantially.

We are truly a land of advantage [in many ways ~ but, then again, not for everyone :( ]. We have a certain, genuine strength and healthy belief in ourselves that has facilitated our accomplishing much. What we do with the advantage[s] has turned out well in some cases, and not so in others. I know it's a 'drag' to be anti-U.S. when 'you' live here, and I don't mean to do that. It's just that when condemnation of other areas and peoples begin, images begin popping for me, like those on our computers, that keep interfering with our getting to/reading the content we came for.

When I spoke of the ancient civilizations, it wasn't directed at you, in particular ~ much less to "educate," but was a recap of how I feel, for anyone who might care to give it some thought.

AND ~ I LOVE the English language :D , though I've never been able to make it work for me like Judith does [a serious compliment]. I'm glad that I was born here and acquired it slowly, so don't have to struggle with learning it as an adult. An example sent me and some others by Linmag makes the point on that :lol: :
How would you pronounce this word if you saw it... GHOTI.

Well, it is actually pronounced FISH, let me explain how.....

OK, take the GH as in couGH, take the O as in wOmen and the TI as in
staTIon, so that's why you pronounce that as FISH, don't you just love
the English language??

There! Have I surprized you :wink: ? At least mildly..... :) ?
jmflash
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Post by jmflash » Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:28 pm

Liz, this was actually a transcript of the tape that came out last week, so it's not that old. For those of you who are truly disgusted by bin Laden, I ask you are you also as disgusted by the deaths of over 2 million Iraqis, with over 1 million of these deaths being those of children under the age of five, in less than 15 years. If September 11th is terrorism than what is that. I think that a true god-fearing person should look at all people as if they were members of their own family. So I am offended by the violence on Sep. 11 and I am offended by the genocide of millions of Iraqis. In the days of slavery I am sure that the US people deemed Nat Turner the most awful demon in the world, even though the African slave trade was the most vicious crime in modern history. Half a century they painted the same image for Crazy Horse while they wiped out the Indians with genocide. And after that Che Guevera was the most disgusting man on the planet even though time and time again America supported dictator after dictator in Latin America as long as they played a puppet for American businesses. Now it happens again that we commit crimes and label those who fight back as terrorists. I would never fight for or with Bin Laden but I will not condescend and look down on him. Fortunately we have the luxury of not having to choose how to react to a foreign government that comes into our country and murders our family members.
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