The promoter is scamming us

USA and Canada (April 1 - June 4, 2009). Special concert for fans in NYC (February 19). Concert reports, set lists, photos, media coverage, multimedia links, recollections...
MaryB
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Joined: Sat Mar 08, 2008 5:40 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio USA

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by MaryB » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:47 pm

Leonard from Montreal, Pancogito(Roman), Ladydi - thank you for so eloquently expressing your well founded sentiments!
I too have remained silent hoping that all this negativity will gradually fade away - no such luck.
You join the forum to score tickets and then when you don't get what you want, you not only whine but you start to accuse LC, his managers, his promoters and anyone that comes to mind of all types of devious plots to keep you from getting tickets. Read the information provided by Jarkko and other forum members, do the groundwork as others have suggested, 'get your ducks all in a row', and you'll most likely get tickets at some point through the process. There are tickets in every price category, but don't expect to get front row center for a piddling amount. This is a three hour once in a lifetime concert of pure bliss and LC and his people do not deserve all these wildly speculative accusations. And you call yourselves Leonard Cohen fans - shame on you!
1993 Detroit 2008 Kitchener June 2-Hamilton June 3 & 4-Vienna Sept 24 & 25-London RAH Nov 17 2009 NYC Feb 19-Grand Prairie Apr 3-Phoenix Apr 5-Columbia May 11-Red Rocks Jun 4-Barcelona Sept 21-Columbus Oct 27-Las Vegas Nov 12-San Jose Nov 13 2010 Sligo Jul 31 & Aug 1-LV Dec 10 & 11 2012 Paris Sept 30-London Dec 11-Boston Dec 16 2013 Louisville Mar 30-Amsterdam Sept 20
efc

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by efc » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:13 pm

Irrespective of what role promoters do or don't play, or what people post when they join the forum, the issue of ticket prices/availability has been brewing for a number of years.

It started with golden circle/expensive good tickets, and we have TM's ticket exchange, and so on. Gone are the days when being at one's computer at the annointed hour would likely result in a good seat, and the top price can often cover an unnecessarily large area of the auditorium.

It's inevitable that people become more and more unhappy, and that's bound to reflect to some extent on the artists, rightly or wrongly.

All this is without the effects of the financial crisis, which Obama seems determined to exacerbate.

Of course there will always be some who "support" the system by paying high charges, but the general customer's remedy is to stop buying the expensive tickets, either by buying a less expensive ticket, or not going.

CEO bonuses have been an issue for years, even when times were good, or at least perceived as being good. CEO bonuses when times are hard is even more of an issue. That's different because some CEOs are benefitting after helping cause the problems, but the comparison makes the point that artists charging high tickets prices in difficult times will not be looked upon kindly.
blue_94_trooper
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:50 pm

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by blue_94_trooper » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:28 pm

efc wrote:All this is without the effects of the financial crisis, which Obama seems determined to exacerbate.
Can we kindly stick to one conspiracy theory at a time?
efc

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by efc » Tue Mar 03, 2009 5:35 pm

blue_94_trooper wrote:
efc wrote:All this is without the effects of the financial crisis, which Obama seems determined to exacerbate.
Can we kindly stick to one conspiracy theory at a time?
You found the "...which Obama seems determined to exacerbate" bit then. I hope it didn't spoil your enjoyment of the thread.
Steve Wilcox
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2002 3:31 am

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by Steve Wilcox » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:38 pm

Keep this in mind. When you buy a bag of apples from a grocery store that money does NOT go to the Farmer. Nor would you blame the Farmer for the price of apples at the grocery store. Nor did the Farmer set the price of the apples at the retail level! And, the Retailer bought them from a Wholesaler.

As much as the Farmer would like to see his apples eaten by happy healthy people, he doesn't have that much control once they leave the farm. The promoters are just as happy to turn them into apple sauce or McDonald's hot apple pies.

The Entertainment "Business" is the same. Leonard is just the Farmer, AEG Live is the Wholesaler, and the Retailer is either a local promoter or the venue. Each one takes some risk along the way that the tickets will sell, but normally it's the final stage -the Retailer/local promoter - who gets stuck with rotting un-sold apples or tickets.

When we buy a commodity known as the Leonard Cohen concert ticket, we are NOT paying Leonard to perform for us. Only AEG Live pays Leonard Cohen to perform. We are paying AEG and other promoters for the logistical costs of producing the show, plus a profit of course.

On another note - this tour has become a victim of its own success. The huge interest in acquiring tickets has - in the commercial sense of supply & demand - driven their cost to the limit. As has been posted elsewhere, Leonard, AEG and everyone associated with this venture has been amazed at its success.

Starting out in a 700-seat venue in Eastern Canada and nearly a year later, twice to Europe, back to Canada in between, then Downunder, all the time building incredible reviews and buzz, then taking New York - the Tour is now heading for the largest entertainment marketplace on the planet. And it has come a-shore in North America with incredible fanfare and a head-of-steam that no expected. Someone deserves a lot of credit for how the tour was laid out.

And I doubt that is Leonard, a mere Farmer.
blue_94_trooper
Posts: 48
Joined: Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:50 pm

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by blue_94_trooper » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:42 pm

efc wrote:
blue_94_trooper wrote:
efc wrote:All this is without the effects of the financial crisis, which Obama seems determined to exacerbate.
Can we kindly stick to one conspiracy theory at a time?
You found the "...which Obama seems determined to exacerbate" bit then. I hope it didn't spoil your enjoyment of the thread.
I could have pointed out how all the money wasted in Iraq could have easily covered all the bail-outs, but that would have been off-topic.
captrenault
Posts: 45
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:39 pm

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by captrenault » Tue Mar 03, 2009 6:45 pm

I've long ago learned that if you deal with Ticketmaster in any way, you will be screwed. There's no way to avoid it. It's a universal constant, like the speed of light or Absolute Zero. There is nowhere in this time-space continuum where you will not be subject to being screwed by Ticketmaster.

Once I resigned myself to that inevitability, I became much happier.
Toronto, June 17/93; Toronto, May 13/06; Toronto, June 1/07; Hamilton, June 3/08; Montreal June 23/08; Montreal June 24/08; Hamilton, May 19/09, London, Dec. 11/12, Hamilton, Apr. 9/13; Irving Layton's 85th birthday party.
ladydi
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Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:14 pm

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by ladydi » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:00 pm

Okay, okay...I knew someone would try to make this political :roll:

Blue Trooper, as much as I may agree with you, beware of getting into a back and forth with efc unless you guys want to take it to the Political thread at the bottom of the Forum! ;-)

All the best,
Diana

ps...captrenault...agree with you too!
da2008
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by da2008 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:07 pm

Is there any particular reason why there's got to be multiple threads going about this at one time. It would make your collective point stronger and easier for me to ignore. Everybody wins.
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brightnow
Posts: 849
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:54 pm
Location: Pittsburgh

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by brightnow » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:13 pm

People! we should all sympathize with those who could not get the tickets they expected. Just Imagine how immensely frustrating that must be.
I was able to get good tickets through the pre-sale and for that I am greatful. I have been waiting for this opportunity for twenty two years and I don't want to even try to think about what it would feel like not to be able to get tickets.

(And if you need further evidence of the deep emotional distress we are observing here: some of these guys are accusing Leonard Cohen of greed, no less. Surely they must be mad with frustration, I wish there was something I could do to ease their pain :()
Columbia May 11, 2009; Boston May 29, 2009; Durham November 3, 2009; Las Vegas December 10 & 11, 2010; Austin November 1, 2012; Boston December 15, 2012; Brooklyn December 20, 2012
da2008
Posts: 357
Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:01 pm

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by da2008 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:29 pm

Of course everybody is sympathetic. But it's all beyond any reasonable level now. People that feel pain over not geting tickets need a life. Seriously. There will be extra shows added, they could all travel to concerts that aren't sold out (e.g. Hamilton, Kingston, etc). I'm in Toronto and have not/will not see a single show here. I am a student. I make cuts, I buy the cheapest tickets, etc. If you want to go - you go. All these threads are misinformed, ill-conceived and counter-productive.
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PanCogito
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Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by PanCogito » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:38 pm

Steve –
I like your Farmer analogy. Guys, would you go after Farmer (like somebody advocated on this forum to go after Leonard) if the middle man comes up with a brilliant idea to cover apples with caramel and offers them in platinum boxes in pairs? It is obvious that what we need is just an apple but the way to it is not as easy as it used to be(in 1988 in Stuttgart I even did not need the ticket to see Leonard in concert from the front seat). There is no chance to buy direct from Leonard but at the end of the day you will get him and his music sitting closer or farther from the stage or you decide to stay home and listen to his records.
kind regards -דרישת שלום
roman - pan cogito- מר קוגיטו
העובדה שאני שותק לא אומרת שאין לי מה להגיד - The fact that I am being silent doesn't mean that I have nothing to say
|1985Wroclaw|1988Stuttgart|2008Montreal|2009 New York RC| MSG|Red Rocks |Las Vegas |2012Aalborg| Denver|Chicago|2013Milwaukee
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mwaldman
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Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by mwaldman » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:44 pm

brightnow wrote: I wish there was something I could do to ease their pain :()
Offer them some cheese to go with their whine. Let me add my thank you to Leonard from Montreal, Pancogito(Roman), Ladydi, MaryB, and da2008 for their "spot on" comments. A number of the negative posts here go way beyond expressions of frustration. Enough already. Spend your time practicing how to refresh a Ticketmaster screen to maximize your chances of getting good tickets. There are no guarantees in life, folks. Try learning something about Zen and mindfulness. Live in the moment.

Mike
"If a thing is worth doing, it is worth doing badly."
~ G.K. Chesterton
denalynn2001
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 11:56 pm

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by denalynn2001 » Tue Mar 03, 2009 7:56 pm

I absolutely disagree that it was, or is, counterproductive to complain about the fact that there were virtually no tickets available for the Chicago public sale. On the contrary, I believe this is why a second show was added. Several people have posted reasoned discussions here about the absurd ticketing structures that have come into being, which have been attacked as questionable and exploitive in several cases.

The "farmer" analogy is a good one and I have been quite adamant that I refuse to blame LC for Ticketmaster's ticketing practices or to direct any negative vibes whatsoever in his direction. Much to the contrary. In this case, I do not have the option to travel elsewhere to catch another show. At this point there's no guarantee whatsoever that I'll get a ticket for Chicago, but at least I feel I have a chance.

I spoke up in the first place because it matters, but it won't be the end of the world if I can't go. It is interesting to see what happens when these kinds of discussions come up, because I haven't personally maligned a soul and yet several people have directed attacks at me because I entered the forum at a point of frustration with an alienating system.

They sentenced me to twenty years of boredom
For trying to change the system from within

heh.
Thanks to those who were kind enough to give me hints and tips, I really appreciate it, as it's quite a blessing when someone can put themselves in your shoes when you have steam coming out of your ears.

D
efc

Re: The promoter is scamming us

Post by efc » Tue Mar 03, 2009 8:24 pm

Steve Wilcox wrote:Keep this in mind. When you buy a bag of apples from a grocery store that money does NOT go to the Farmer. Nor would you blame the Farmer for the price of apples at the grocery store. Nor did the Farmer set the price of the apples at the retail level! And, the Retailer bought them from a Wholesaler.

As much as the Farmer would like to see his apples eaten by happy healthy people, he doesn't have that much control once they leave the farm. The promoters are just as happy to turn them into apple sauce or McDonald's hot apple pies.

The Entertainment "Business" is the same. Leonard is just the Farmer, AEG Live is the Wholesaler, and the Retailer is either a local promoter or the venue. Each one takes some risk along the way that the tickets will sell, but normally it's the final stage -the Retailer/local promoter - who gets stuck with rotting un-sold apples or tickets.

When we buy a commodity known as the Leonard Cohen concert ticket, we are NOT paying Leonard to perform for us. Only AEG Live pays Leonard Cohen to perform. We are paying AEG and other promoters for the logistical costs of producing the show, plus a profit of course.

On another note - this tour has become a victim of its own success. The huge interest in acquiring tickets has - in the commercial sense of supply & demand - driven their cost to the limit. As has been posted elsewhere, Leonard, AEG and everyone associated with this venture has been amazed at its success.

Starting out in a 700-seat venue in Eastern Canada and nearly a year later, twice to Europe, back to Canada in between, then Downunder, all the time building incredible reviews and buzz, then taking New York - the Tour is now heading for the largest entertainment marketplace on the planet. And it has come a-shore in North America with incredible fanfare and a head-of-steam that no expected. Someone deserves a lot of credit for how the tour was laid out.

And I doubt that is Leonard, a mere Farmer.
I get your point about Leonard being the farmer. When you go to a Leonard concert, and hear Liberal types cheering the "Democracy is coming to the USA" line, they are visiting the Farm Shop, and dealing directly with Farmer Len.

I disagree with you on one point though. There is nothing "mere" about Farmer Len.
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