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Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 1:49 am
by bee
Bobbie wrote
it occured to me that perhaps this wasn't such a bad thing to have on your resume when you are working for the United States Government.... at least you have some experience with horses asses.
oh so funny :roll:

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 3:54 am
by lizzytysh
...and, so often, so accurate, Bobbie.

Thanks for the other, two links ~ I'll read them as soon as I can. I've heard and read the thing about B.Bush's comment about the Hilton conditions at the Superdome, since the guests were used to squalor, anyway [paraphrase].

I had heard about the Arabians, but not the detail about the rear-end liposuction.
disbelief and flabbergasted frustration
That's a very, very apt, descriptive phrase for how I feel, as I continue hearing things.

~ Lizzy

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:32 am
by Linda
This was mailed to me today from a friend of mine who received it from a staunch Washington democrat.
It might put the blame game in better perspective to some of you.

In case you aren't familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work:
The chain of responsibility for the protection of the citizens in New
Orleans is:

1. The Mayor
2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security (a political appointee
of the Governor who reports to the Governor)
3. The Governor
4. The Head of Homeland Security
5. The President

What did each do?

1. The mayor, with 5 days advance, waited until 2 days before he
announced a mandatory evacuation (at the behest of the President). Then
he failed to provide transportation for those without transport even
though he had hundreds of buses at his disposal.

2. The New Orleans director of Homeland Security failed to have any plan
for a contingency that has been talked about for 50 years. Then he
blames the Feds for not doing what he should have done. (So much for
political appointees)

3. The Governor, despite a declaration of disaster by the President 2
DAYS BEFORE the storm hit, failed to take advantage of the offer of
Federal troops and aid. Until 2 DAYS AFTER the storm hit.

4. The Director of Homeland Security positioned assets in the area to be
ready when the Governor called for them

5. The President urged a mandatory evacuation, and even declared a
disaster State of Emergency, freeing up millions of dollars of federal
assistance, should the Governor decide to use it.

Oh and by the way, the levees that broke were the responsibility of the
local landowners and the local levee board to maintain, NOT THE FEDERAL

The disaster in New Orleans is what you get after decades of corrupt
(democrat) government going all the way back to Huey Long.

Funds for disaster protection and relief have been flowing into this
city for decades, and where has it gone, but into the pockets of the
politicos and their friends.

Decades of socialist government in New Orleans has sapped all self
reliance from the community, and made them dependent upon government for
every little thing.

Political correctness and a lack of will to fight crime have created the
single most corrupt police force in the country, and has permitted gang
violence to flourish.

The sad thing is that there are many poor folks who have suffered and
died needlessly because those that they voted into office failed them.

For those who missed item 5 (where the Presidents level of
accountability is discussed), it is made more clear in a New Orleans
Times-Picayune article dated August 28:

NEW ORLEANS (AP) - In the face of a catastrophic Hurricane Katrina, a
mandatory evacuation was ordered Sunday for New Orleans by Mayor Ray

Acknowledging that large numbers of people, many of them stranded
tourists, would be unable to leave, the city set up 10 places of last
resort for people to go, including the Superdome.

The mayor called the order unprecedented and said anyone who could leave
the city should. He exempted hotels from the evacuation order because
airlines had already canceled all flights.

Gov. Kathleen Blanco, standing beside the mayor at a news conference,
said President Bush called and personally appealed for a mandatory
evacuation for the low-lying city, which is prone to flooding. (emphasis

The ball was placed in Mayor Nagin's court to carry out the evacuation
order. With a 5-day heads-up, he had the authority to use any and all
services to evacuate all residents from the city, as documented in a
city emergency preparedness plan. By waiting until the last minute, and
failing to make full use of resources available within city limits,
Nagin and his administration f**ked up.

Mayor Nagin and his emergency sidekick Terry Ebbert have displayed
lethal, mind boggling incompetence before, during and after Katrina.


As for Mayor Nagin, he and his profile in pathetic leadership police
chief should resign as well. That city's government is incompetent from
one end to the other. The people of New Orleans deserve better than this
crowd of clowns is capable of giving them.

If you're keeping track, these boobs let 569 buses that could have
carried 33,350 people out of New Orleans-in one trip-get ruined in the
floods. Whatever plan these guys had, it was a dud. Or it probably would
have been if they'd bothered to follow it.

As for all the race-baiting rhetoric and Bush-bashing coming from
prominent blacks on the left, don't expect Ray Nagin to be called out on
the carpet for falling short. You want to know why? Here's why:

Its more convenient to blame a white president for what went wrong than
to hold a black mayor and his administration accountable for gross
negligence and failing to fully carry out an established emergency
preparedness plan.

To hold Nagin and his administration accountable for dropping the ball
amounts to letting loose the shouts and cries of "Racism!". Its sad, its
wrong, but its standard operating procedure for the media and left-wing
black leadership.

Mark my words: you will not hear a word of criticism from Jesse Jackson,
Sr., Randall Robinson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, or
Kanye West being directed toward Clarence Ray Nagin, Jr. Why? Because he
is just another black politician instead of a responsible elected
official who happens to be black. In the mindset of
more-blacker-than-thou blacks, black politicians who are on their side
can do no wrong.

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:14 am
by Bobbie
The words "staunch" (whether it's democrat, republican, independent, libertarian, green party.. what have you) and "Washington" make me very nervous, especially when they are in the same sentence. I live 10 minutes drive from DC., every night when the windows are open I can hear taps at exactly 11:00 p.m. being played at Fort Meyer, my husband works in DC for the govt. - neither of us trusts it - it's all corrupt. If we knew, i mean really knew one tenth of one percent of what really goes on (in the innards of any government, anywhere in the world, all the hair on our little collective heads would be standing straight up in the g-d air. Bottom line.. they are all to blame, and they are all trying to blame each other - because no one likes to admit they fucked up this bad.


Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:44 am
by lizzytysh
I also wonder why they're bothering to launch multiple, including private, investigations of the mess, when the staunch Democrat [and what is his name?] already has it all down on one, fairly small page. They could just give him a call and save us millions of dollars. Ah, heck with it. Don't tie up the phone line. Just FW this on to all the governmental agencies, via e-mail.

Interesting, there's no mention of Federal liability anywhere in it. Guess no one knows that ~ no matter what planning failures there were or weren't ~ when thousands of people are in crisis and dying, a city is submerged in water, and Control Commands of the local police departments have been obliterated, Daddy Government isn't supposed to just look on and say, "Tooooold you so. Shoulda listened. That's too bad about all you folks down there. Hope you figure somethin' out before it's too late."

Action being taken by the largest branch of government, with the greatest number of resources, however, would have been doing the real saving now, and any relevant, or imagined, blaming later. Like people do in crisis when they care.

No sense of prejudicial rhetoric in this, either, is there:
Mark my words: you will not hear a word of criticism from Jesse Jackson,
Sr., Randall Robinson, the Congressional Black Caucus, the NAACP, or
Kanye West being directed toward Clarence Ray Nagin, Jr. Why? Because he is just another black politician instead of a responsible elected
official who happens to be black. In the mindset of
more-blacker-than-thou blacks, black politicians who are on their side
can do no wrong.
Not that it's totally geographical, because it's not, but I'm wondering where this staunch Democrat was born and/or raised. I'm fairly certain I know the color of his skin.

I've seen hair-straightening and hair-curling stuff on several levels, just in the jobs I've had, so I can understand the grave implications behind what you're saying. I've had some imaginary dialogues run through my mind, their onset being the point at which the already, gravely, terminally-ill Judge Rehnquist entered the hospital through the Emergency Ward, approximately a week ago, and before the hurricane hit. Roberts's name surfaced, as well, in these imaginary conversations that 'took place' behind the door that's behind the door, that's behind the three doors, and down the steps, of course. Politics and government aren't pretty, but can sure make some pretty cozy bedfellows.

Looks like Karl Rove may have been getting in some overtime, lately. For those who may not be familiar with him, this is a quote, via Google, on what Bush had to say:
"President George W. Bush called him 'the architect' of his reelection victory and he has been the president's chief strategist from the beginning."
When it comes to spinning, Klever Karl invented the wheel.

Klever = The new spelling of Devious.

~ Lizzy

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:56 am
by lizzytysh
With regard to your third article, thank you once again, to Canada ~ the real softer and gentler country, despite the feigned manner and out-loud prayers seen in some of our leaders. So many of these kinds of incidents that are just going to keep coming out and coming out and coming out.

Well, getting angrier. Time for bed. I'll read the B.Bush one tomorrow, though I feel I may have already read it in the Jacksonville paper, earlier this evening.


Reading things like this keeps the nausea going, doesn't it, Bobbie.

~ Lizzy

An interesting footnote as to how Katrina is still occupying the front of many people's head and heart space, in the same JAX paper [the Florida Times-Union], in an article to the immediate right of the "Corrections" box, the reporting was regarding the computer models of the potential paths of Hurricane Ophelia ["Ophelia: Computer models show several storm paths"], and in the first sentence of the second paragraph of its continuation on another page, the writer said, "The current storm track shows Katrina staying off the coast of Florida as it moves through the area." No one caught it, prior to publication, but I suspect they'll be getting a number of calls and e-mails on it. The reporter, Joe Black, has his head and heart somewhere else at the moment, now.

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:16 pm
by Young dr. Fraud
Linda - Your post is fine, however it doesn't address the point of federal responsibility.

FEMA is directly responsible for disaster RELIEF, ipso facto post-disaster. Your post refers to evacuation. Virtually all of the criticism of the feds is the post-disaster response.

I would characterize this as deflection. Here's an analogy that might happen in my house:

1. I leave a mess in the kitchen.
2. My wife come downstairs and points this out.
3. I say what's the problem, I mowed the lawn already and I spend an hour crying and screaming about how irresponsible she is for even suggesting that I didn't mow the lawn.
4. The neighbors hear what's going on and let everyone know that I have an ungrateful wife.

So in this case:

1. FEMA is responsible for disaster relief and drops the ball entirely.
2. The public points this out and manages to get some of the press to tell the true story.
3. The rightwing deflection team cries and screams about how they're not responsible for evacuation plans or execution.
4. The media lapdogs report things exactly the way they're told with no discrimination.

The other information in your post such as the chain of command is unattributed to a meaningful source and is therefore meaningless.

The reference to socialism is just silliness. As someone once said to me:

"There's a difference between Social Justice and Socialism."


Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 4:29 pm
by lizzytysh
I had just returned here, Young dr. Fraud ~

I was just coming back here to note that the letter from the staunch Democrat stops at the day the hurricane made landfall. Its hitting was tragic, but the human tragedy that's being so bitterly pointed to and has ravaged the 'comprehending' mind is what has happened in the days and week that followed. It ignores that in emergency and overwhelming needs, where the State and local governments have been virtually/literally incapacitated, the Federal government, de facto, is responsible for taking over.

Thanks for the analogy you've constructed and drawing the appropriate parallels.

~ Lizzy

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:37 pm
by Linda
That is not the point of that article to defend the Federal government, as much as to point out that corruption starts at the lowest of levels in government, also. It is easy to point your finger at the highest office, especially when it is not your party in office and make all kinds of accusations whether false or otherwise. The article does not come from a government agency.
I do not know the source, it is some ordinary citizen with whom I agree, and I do not think the post was meaningless, thank you.

As far as the media ( the far left media) reporting the facts, you have got to be kidding me! I remember when people were held accountable for what they wrote and said in public, not any more.
I am starting to wish John Kerry had won the election, so we would not have to be reading and listening to the whinning that has been going on since the election, it does not stop. It does the democrat party nor our country any good what so ever. I see no point in it.

Well, I really don't have the time for this. Not to boast but our church is organizing groups to go down and help as soon as they will let people in to help clean up. I remember what a blessing those people were to us.

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 5:41 pm
by lizzytysh
Well, I really don't have the time for this. Not to boast but our church is organizing groups to go down and help as soon as they will let people in to help clean up. I remember what a blessing those people were to us.
That is great! In any number of ways, it's at this very level that help is being delivered.
as soon as they will let people in to help clean up.
In any number of ways, this has been one of the many problems.....keeping people out when it wasn't necessary. Letting people with boats, who could assist in search and rescue, stand on the side of the road, till the majority finally took their boats and went home. There are periphery areas where church groups can still travel to and do some good, even if they can't go into the now extremely toxic and dangerous, flood areas. Alabama and Mississippi still have people needing everything that any outside group could possibly deliver.

Are you planning to go with them, Linda? [That's not a potentially-indicting, trick question, but a serious inquiry.]

~ Lizzy

P.S. Just a note ~ When you're answering one of the "Dr."s, just remember that YdF or YDF could refer to either one of them, "Freud" or "Fraud."

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:07 pm
by Young dr. Freud
Yes, Linda

Please note the difference. Poor Young dr. Fraud thinks I'm British. What a nutcase. Nice to see you again. You can see the forum hasn't changed much. Still full of self-loathing Americans. :lol:



Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:35 pm
by lizzytysh
A public-service message was given on NPR regarding people making contributions via the Internet. The approximate number of 1,200 'helping organization' sites has ballooned to approximately 2,300 since Katrina. Many of these additional ones are apparently fraudulent, with individuals exploiting the situation for personal gain. Some are 'appearing' to be Red Cross, when they're actually not. A reliable connection for Red Cross is simply

Sure isn't the first time for that, since gas stations, hotels, and retail stores have also done the same in the past, with some of it having happened with Katrina. However, they are urging that you contribute only to those you already KNOW to be legitimate, and even mailing your contribution, or contacting them by phone to be certain of what their e-mail address actually is.

So 'many' go under the guise of something else, with pleas and verbiage that incline people to contribute, and the money simply goes into someone's pocket, and no further.


These do not appear to be solutions. Squidgy is not listed [proper name, of course] on the Red Cross site ~ and it requires too much information that I simply don't have, and you're unlikely to, as well, to enter her. It won't accept my entry, based on lack of required info.

I can't find a People Search mode when I go to my Yahoo page ~ when I Googled "Yahoo People Search," I was able to get to a site for that -- BUT, it appears to search for name, address, phone number, DOBs, etc. and comes up with further links that appear to be ones you probably have to pay to access......and the DOB is the only thing that might be helpful right now. Even so, I lack other required info for the Red Cross site, anyway. No mention is made of Hurricane Katrina, which I somehow thought might be.

Perhaps, one of you two [both being way more computer savvy than I am] could attempt going there, and seeing if you could find a way to accomplish what the man on the phone said would be done.

~ Lizzy

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 7:59 pm
by Young dr. Fraud
"Freud" - Your baiting tactics will not get any rise out of me. Patriotism is loyalty to one's country, not one's leader. Is it true that in G.B. these are one and the same? After all, its not "God Bless America" which is inclusive of all, but "God Save the Queen".

Which one of the people here will you disappoint and drive away like you did that nice Anne Marie? Will you post on the "deleted" thread with your "Dear Boy" introduction like you've done so many times before in older threads?

I know Billy Idol was dancing with himself; I thought that he was referring to masterbation. Oh, I feel a ditty coming on:

"you have posted all over this board
And you've made us pretty bored.
But if you post away
Later on this day
You may be criticizing yourself."

Linda - I agree with Freud, please do not mistake me for him. I do not sign my posts YdF as he does. Plus, I'm better looking.

Regarding your last post, it is more honest than the earlier post. The earlier post was opinion, but this was not accurately represented as you stated: "In case you aren't familiar with how our government is SUPPOSED to work, The chain of responsibility for the protection of the citizens in New Orleans is:". You attributed it to a friend from Washington, which makes it come across as authoritative. Quite the fine example of framing, thank you, I'll have to remember this one for another day.

Thinking of the early YdF thread he's so proud of: Why do I post?

I began to post because I was watching the attempted destruction of a quirky, sometimes over the top, sweet, kind, loving, and decent board member, orchestrated and played out for your amusement.

Did she need my help? No.

So what?

I sent a letter to AP a few weeks ago when they headlined a story identifying a pro-Bush group as "patriotic". Of course the implication is that the anti-war protesters across the road are un-patriotic. Quite the load of bull, being pro-war or anti-war, pro-bush or anti-bush has nothing to do with loving one's country.

Will this change AP's bias? They probably didn't even read it.

So what?


Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:35 pm
by Young dr. Fraud
I know I'm going to be flamed for this, but I can't resist:

"Brownie, you're doing a heck of a job"
George W. Bush

FEMA Chief Relieved of Katrina Duties By LARA JAKES JORDAN, Associated Press Writer
Fri Sep 9, 2:13 PM ET

Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Michael Brown is being relieved of his command of the Bush administration's Hurricane Katrina onsite relief efforts, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff announced Friday.

He will be replaced by Coast Guard Vice Adm. Thad W. Allen, who was overseeing New Orleans relief and rescue efforts, Chertoff said.

Earlier, Brown confirmed the switch. Asked if he was being made a scapegoat for a federal relief effort that has drawn widespread and sharp criticism, Brown told The Associated Press after a long pause: "By the press, yes. By the president, No."

"Michael Brown has done everything he possibly could to coordinate the federal response to this unprecedented challenge," Chertoff told reporters in Baton Rouge, La. Chertoff sidestepped a question on whether the move was the first step toward Brown's leaving FEMA.

But a source close to Brown, speaking on condition of anonymity, said the FEMA director had been considering leaving after the hurricane season ended in November and that Friday's action virtually assures his departure.

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 11:38 pm
by Dem
"FEMA Chief Relieved of Katrina Duties"

but when the "Commander-in-Chief" will be relieved of his duties?