Explosions in London

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Mirek
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Mirek

Post by Mirek » Mon Aug 22, 2005 12:37 am

Jo wrote: I'm not a physicist so, yes I would certainly base whatever fuzzy scientific thoughts I have on a better informed person's valid and legitimate research. It would be easy to pass these off as my own, but I was taught at university, and I'm damn sure it still applies in civilised countries, that one NEVER tries to pass off another's ideas as one's own - that's plagiarism and one can be prosecuted legally for that offense - and the way to avoid that is by quoting one's sources. This way the interested reader can get either confirmation, clarification or further information by consulting the said references.
Oh, yes.. you're absolutely right. Although - it happens so often...
If you like, you could try to find something about the story of pulsars - who has stolen the idea from whom - and never in fact was punished.
Einstein did not believe quantum theory was the route to follow - as far as I remember the theory in quantum physics is that the little tiny thingies (the quanta, I think - but I also think there are other more specific names for them in their various states of electrical charge) are in a constant state of flux so cannot be measured to the degree of accuracy scientists prefer - so nothing is "real" until it is actually observed, the act of observing in fact makes it "real" - you might want to check out "Schrödinger's Cat" in google.
Well... dear Jo - where did you find the info that Einstein didn't like the quantum theory???
I guess you made a very interesting mixture of a few theories here.
Anyway - the thing that Einstein did not believe in was based upon HEISENBERG's uncertainty principle. He couldn't agree with him that we're not able to measure EXACTLY pairs like energy-time or position-momentum. That's why he said - God doesn't play dice. That saying is not connected with quanta.
Personally I think Einstein was right and science has just not yet discovered the rules which govern particles at the quantum level.
Well - you're right, I guess. There are several theories being developed right now - like so called superstrings etc., but no-one.. I repeat - NO-ONE questions the existence of quanta - which are just portions of the matter.

Hmm... I was just wondering - to which of LC songs we are referring here? :P Perhaps this one:

"I remember you well
in The Quantum Hotel
your electrons were pretty and big..."

:lol:

Mirek
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:26 am

The more success the quantum theory has, the sillier it looks.

Letter to Heinrich Zagger, May 20, 1912.

Quantum mechanics is worthy of regard. But an inner voice tells me this is not the true Jacob. The theory yields much, but it hardly brings us close to the secrets of the Ancient One. In any case I am convinced He does not play dice.
Letter to Max Born, December 4, 1926.

I think I remember reading that Einstein was not much enamored by any theory (read quantum theory) that needs lots and lots of constants, corrections for conditions etc etc....he considered that "dirty as wood." He liked stuff that could be put very simply and holds true for all (most) situations ..."smooth as marble".

Of course no one questions the existence of quanta....
Far as I can understand superstrings is what may yield the "smooth as marble" unified field theory.
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:58 am

Mirek, A thousand kisses deep, perhaps (in regard of the story of Albert and Mileva). Jo, I meant that you may certainly have more credit than me in this community, being there for a long time, and well integrated. I meant also, that by having written this post, I wanted to have the kind of answer that you gave.

Wow, the discussion goes into pure physic, sharp knowledge that I don't have, very interesting to read, but as I am not an expert, so please gentlemen continue without me. I'm reading you with great interest.

Furthermore I just came back from a perfect end of a summer day, in the light breeze and the sun, and before I saw for the first time - there is always a first time - a gospel choir. Talk to me about two cultures that you could not say wich one influences more the other. Looking at this big gorgeous black man spinning and jumping in a church in front of the frantic choir (btw composed of how many colors of skin and hair as could be possible) you know that "Jesus" and "Holy Spirit" are chanted in the same way of ancient african gods. Very, very interesting. In two weeks I'm going to see another one, a haitien gospel choir. Just to see the difference, if there is, one. Just to see if it could look like a voodoo mass or something. Anyway, good vibs, was there, very high vibs, very energetic, very hot.

To come back to the very topic, did I hear they caught two other persons in connection to the bombing in London?
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Jo
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Post by Jo » Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:18 am

Mirek
"where did you find the info that Einstein didn't like the quantum theory??? "
I read one or two Einstein biographies - that's probably where I got it from. :shock:

"I guess you made a very interesting mixture of a few theories here. "
Well, what did you expect??? I told you I'm not a rocket scientist. :lol: I have the layman's licence to be creative. :lol:

"Anyway - the thing that Einstein did not believe in was based upon HEISENBERG's uncertainty principle. "
I thought Heisenberg's uncertainty principle was one of the principles of quantum theory? (As matter travelling at the speed of light loses mass is one of the principles of the theory of relativity?) As well as not being a rocket scientist I didn't even study physics (or chemistry) as a subject at school. :roll: And I'm as old as Methuselah - my memory ain't that good you know. And I am prone to a great deal of mental confusion, as all we ancient of days are. :lol: :lol: :lol:

That's why we have scientists to publish papers that correct our fuzzy thinking. :lol: I seem to remember you are a physicist?

Jo
"... to make a pale imitation of reality with twenty-six juggled letters"
"... all words are lies because they can only represent one of many levels of being"
Sober noises of morning in a marginal land.
jurica
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Post by jurica » Mon Aug 22, 2005 1:27 pm

Mirek, Einstein indeed didn't like 'quantums' because they didn't work in his frame (relativity). he belived in 'theory of everything' or however this is called in english. he figured that the same principles should work for however small mass as well as big.

i don't like 'quantums' either. i don't know much about it (i'm a geodesy student - i study astornomy, celestial physics etc. - all related to relativity theory, none to quantum), but i know enough to say that it's more or less an approximation, not a definitive theory. something you can use, but it's not realy true.

much like corpuscular/wave light theory. it's an obvious nonsense, but since noone knows better, and it can be used for most purposes and measurments - it's generally accepted.

***

Jo, matter travelling at the speed CLOSE TO THE SPEED of light GAINS mass... and you realy made a coctail of theories up there.

let's not go any deeper in this, people. none of us knows enough, so we're mostly just spreading our ignorance.
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:29 pm

It's a pity the team Einstein-Maric was crushed by too much social prejudices, maybe they would have scored again in quantum physic. But ey! They gave enough to physic, what is this "complaint"? Others have to dirty their hands in the matter.

After Einstein the lover - although he acknowledged at the end of his life having been a failure in this field - ladies and gentlemen, I introduce Einstein the poet. Or how the myth of the solitary genius is being enligthed with facts. :wink:

Yes a poem in the honour of Spinoza, a man AE admired greatly and which influenced his way of thinking the universe.

http://www.lorentz.leidenuniv.nl/histor ... inoza.html

http://www.alberteinstein.info/db/ViewI ... 814&Page=1

I wonder what it gives in term of Beauty this poem? Somebody can give a clue here?
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:43 pm

Good heavens :lol: ~ Might there be a translation accompanying that poem? Tom.d.stiller ~ what are you up to these days? How about translating an Einstein poem?
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Mon Aug 22, 2005 5:50 pm

True...we shouldnt spread ignorance :)

They say Edward Witten at Princeton is possibly/potentially the next Einstein (in terms of being a revolutionary) for his work on String Theory.

(I've heard a physicist say that "You shouldnt throw around comparisons to Einstein lightly, but when it comes to Witten.....")

Here he explains string theory to PBS.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/elegant/view-witten.html
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:40 pm

Jurica...what is geodesy??
Are you a grad student in astronomy? That must be exciting stuff!!
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:48 pm

Tish darling Image (this in case the usual little winking guy would not have made the job properly in stressing the whole thing, you know how it is when one is used to something, it has less impact, you know it) I was thinking about some german fellow forumers, that are coming in regularly. The ones you'll see in Berlin.

Here is an interesting link aboutGospel. When it was fashionable to dig into one previous lifes, while others find themselves to be Egyptian, French, Whatever queens and kings, or Mozart Leonardo Da Vinci or crown heads or geniuses and cie, I, had this very strong feeling that I was a black slave woman in the deep American South. Go figure why.... :roll: God knows, but I don't have a clue. Anyway, this gospel thing reminded me about this, as it was appealing to me greatly. Who likes gospel around here?
jurica
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Post by jurica » Tue Aug 23, 2005 1:37 pm

this is what my dictionary says:

geodesy (Noun)
1. The branch of geology that studies the shape of the earth and the determination of the exact position of geographical points

...it's not realy a part of geology, but the rest is OK. geodets are in the US often refered to as surveyors, but that's only a small, technical part of it.

the big thing in geodesy for 20 years now is satellite geodesy (including popular GPS - Global Positioning System), and some astronomical measurments are necessary to absolutly determine the point's position - therefore, a lot of astronomy, celestial geometry etc. is required.

it's not, btw, very interesting. nothing is interesting when you MUST study it. the things you shouldn't waste your time on are always more interesting :wink:
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Kush
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Post by Kush » Tue Aug 23, 2005 5:25 pm

I know what you mean....everything is interesting until you have to get deep and technical :)
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl » Sat Aug 27, 2005 1:28 am

Regarding this slavery thing. It was political and economical only, which means that not everybody was in accordance with the laws of the time but they have to follow them until they brake them. Sure, now, we have the worst "pictures" of this, but a slave was not anybody for everybody all the time. There were huge differences with different masters and different skills of the slaves. Some slaves were most important than non slaves. Anyway.

Freedom is an ideal never achieved, not even in our beautiful democracy.
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Post by Guest » Sun Oct 02, 2005 7:18 pm

I just put my radio on, there has been six explosions on London transport.
So when will w know more
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