Auschwitz..60 years on..

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tomsakic
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Post by tomsakic » Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:43 pm

Well, if they're LC connected, you can always publish it on my site, in much-planned-but-still-not-opened Inspiration section. Never opened becasue I didn't get anything. Somebody promised me a LC connected story published long ago in Intensity. That's all I found so far.
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linda_lakeside
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Post by linda_lakeside » Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:12 pm

Well, it seems you have interest from LC fans from all over the globe. Whatever you choose to do, is OK with me. It's your project, so why wouldn't it be?

Cheers,

Linda
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
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Post by Tchocolatl » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:11 pm

You find that my jokes are freeky?:D Maybe. But not as much as your constant insults and twistings of my posts, you-lazy-hypothalamus darling.

As I am not involved in those games called win-at-any-price and absolutly-must-have-the-last-word, I stay at the jokes level, not much, not more. Not less.

So! What next? Ah! Yes, your paintings. I would like to see them also.

If there is a poetry section, if there is a music section added lately, why, Jarrko can not add a "other miscellaneous art section"? I like to see photos and paintings of all sorts.

This said, let's come back to the subject :

Image

http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/frankl/frankl.html
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
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linda_lakeside
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Post by linda_lakeside » Mon Jan 31, 2005 4:33 pm

Yes, the subject, the frightful, deplorable subject. There are no words for such a photo.
~ The smell of perfume in the air, bits of beauty everywhere ~ Leonard Cohen.
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Post by Andrew McGeever » Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:51 pm

Since my original post, I haven't contributed to this thread: permit me to do so.
The photograph sent by Tchocolatl prompts me to quote a few sentences of an article by Muriel Gray in yesterday's "Sunday Herald" (http://www.sundayherald.com). It's entitled "Educating our young people in ignorance". It starts....
"Listen to this ridiculous made-up rubbish", I said to the 25-year old woman in my kitchen. I read out loud the findings of a survey conducted on people under the age of 35 to see how many knew the facts about the Holocaust. The data suggested that over 60% of those polled hadn't even heard of Auschwitz. I snorted at how obviously invented the statistic was, and how such a thing couldn't possibly be the case. It was then I realised my 25-year old companion, a well-educated school-leaver with decent qualifications that led on to further education and a vocational diploma, was blinking at me in bafflement.
"What's Auschwitz?" she asked. A picture filled my mind; a villa in the deep South American jungle, where a 90-year old Nazi smiles suddenly, as though he heard her, and calls on his manservant for a top-up of Krug. Such a moment deserves celebration. To have been responsible for mankind's worst-ever atrocities and have survived is one thing, as Germany has, but to have the whole thing forgotten in less than three generations is an astounding triumph for evil.


These are the first 2 paragraphs of an article by Muriel Gray. For those interested, try the website for the full article.
Andrew.
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:05 am

I've only just now read this thread and all its contributions. I've been doing personal grieving and still am. Feeling the need for immediate, in-person connection with people ~ looking in their eyes, listening to their words, crying my tears, and receiving and giving our hugs.

I bought a book of photography sometime in the late 60s, early 70s regarding The Yellow Star. In the front I wrote something to the effect of its being important to remember, and don't ever say it could never happen again. I have a friend whose mother was in the camps, and it has certainly impacted their mother-daughter relationship [a woman ~ don't know her name ~ wrote a book about the children of the survivors], and I've listened to accounts of how these children grow up with the ghosts of their heritage. This is a sobering time, and it can happen again. There are already groups organized out there that want it to happen again. It can be a slippery slope for it to happen. Be diligent in tolerance and aware of increasing restriction.

Jim ~ I love Garrison and try to listen to him every week on ~ what else ~ Prairie Home Companion.

I love Bee's paintings ~ however, I have teased her about the [hmmm] predominance of blue eyes :wink: . I'm also quite certain there may be a rule of art being broken somewhere within [that's another tease going back to the rules of photography :wink: ].

Tom ~ Yes, of course. You don't think such foolishness as has been suggested. You're quite the bright one, in fact.

Tchocolatl ~ Thank you for bringing that intense photo to this thread. It is the sobering truth wherein a picture speaks a thousand words.

Thank you, Andrew, for what you quoted as a result. I'll read the whole of the article as soon as I'm able. Thank you for your concern to have initiated this thread. "Never Again" is the goal, if we can but keep our eyes on it.

It's time to go again. I know better than to think I'll catch up in one sitting, anyway.

Love,
Elizabeth
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Post by bee » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:47 am

What is happening with you, Elizabeth? Sorry to hear, that you are having a loss and sorrow. I hope you'll be comforted and all the sorrows will come to the end. It's always changing, life is.
Come back as soon as you feel better.
You know that Elizabeth- as hotter the sun, as darker the shadows,
as bigger the love as deeper the sorrow.
Love,
bee
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Post by bee » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:07 am

Tom Sakic- thank you.
I have only couple of LC related paintings and some ink drawings.
Have a look at them, I 'll send them to you.
It's a shame to say that I have not checked on your site so far.
Usually I am not so poetically inclined as to do a painting by that sort of inspiration, but it happened with LC. 8)
bee
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Post by bee » Tue Feb 01, 2005 5:25 am

I don't think that Tchocolatl's posting of this documentary photo on the thread was appropriate at all.
especially with a text above- more tact and taste would be desired.
bee
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tomsakic
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Post by tomsakic » Tue Feb 01, 2005 11:33 am

I simply don't have anything to say about this topic. Long ago, after the war, Adorno said that "poetry must be in silence after Auschwitz" (or "who can write poetry after Auschwitz", there's few variations). To go back to the main topic all of this threads, Leonard tried and suceeded in writing about Holocaust/shoah in his poetry and Beautiful Losers, arguing so with Adorno's words. But 60 years later, still, what we can say, or what can I say? It's beyond comprehension.


PS. And of course, there's more to that. If I say that Holocaust continued in many ways, in many countries, or that fascism lives as metaphor for some other kinds of authority even today, we will go into endless political discussion as this topic already did. In any case, Holocaust can be a metaphor. Didn't LC say that Holocaust is happening in our living rooms and in our sleeping rooms, every single day? That's maybe the best sentence to describe what the opsessions of his work are. In the end, we do have Dance Me To The End Of Love, the song which raised up from memories of young Loenard watching the photographs of reunions of soldiers and people after the WW2.




PS: Bee, there's excellent section Inspiration in Jarkko's site. Many published their paintings there. Your paintings would be probably more comfortable there, as this my page is still in planning.
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Post by bee » Tue Feb 01, 2005 12:07 pm

I will be like a dew to Israel ;he shell blossom like the lily,
he shell strike root like the forests of Lebanon.
His shoots shall be like the olive tree
and his fragnace like that of Lebanon.
They shall again live beneath my shadow,
they shall flourish as a garden;
they shall blossom like a vine,
their fragrance shall be like
the vine of Lebanon.
I am like an evergreen cypress;
your faithfulness comes from me.
those who are wise understand
theses things;
those who are discerning
know them.
For the ways of the Lord are
right,
and the upright walk in them,
but the transgressors stumble in
them.
HOSEA 14.
bee
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lizzytysh
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Post by lizzytysh » Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:45 pm

Dear Bee ~
You know that Elizabeth- as hotter the sun, as darker the shadows,
as bigger the love as deeper the sorrow.
My eyes filled with tears when I read this. Thank you. Not that I need tears, but I need the healing that tears bring. Quotes like this that bring that truth to the fore are so helpful in that process. I'm going to put that on their permanent, Memorial site [not claiming credit for it, of course], if you don't mind. It's where I placed Vegard's poem awhile back.

I lost three, women friends within a 13-day period, all suddenly and unexpectedly. One was 38, one was 41, and one was 49. The first [Lilly ~ age 41] died December 20, and the other two [Cathleen ~ age 38, and Cherie ~ age 49] died January 2. They were all phenomenal women. I was supposed to get together for dinner and conversation with Lilly on December 22. Instead, I attended her Memorial, and they buried her ashes on December 23. People who have been here a long time may recall my mentioning going to the Coffee Shop [in Melrose ~ called Take Me Places] that I loved so much. Cherie and Cathleen were the owners. We [general community] are trying to keep it open because she [Cherie] created such a legacy with it, with the openness and love they extended to everyone who came there, embracing everyone for who they were, and creating connections between people. All three were phenomenal women, and that's how I felt while they were still alive.

Thanks for caring, Bee. I'm looking forward to when I won't feel so tearful. I know it's the grieving process, and I don't want to get stuck in it. However, I have to be true to the depth of my feelings with all this, so I'm trying to be gentle with myself and not rush, either. Yesterday was one of the court dates for the DUI person that took the lives of Cherie and Cathy.

The photo that Tchocolatl placed here ~ remembering what happened to real people comes full force with a photo like this. When the whole topic has become intellectualized, as it did in the course of the thread, I feel a graphic reminder of the people who suffered and died is very appropriate. However, reading back, I can see what you're saying regarding the mixture of comments with the photo. Still, when I saw the photo, I forgot that any comments had preceded it. I had to revisit it to find out what you meant.

Love,
Elizabeth
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Post by Tchocolatl » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:04 am

Elizabeth, the lost of 3 beloved friends in such a short period of time is very rude. You certainly have to pass by the different steps of grief, right now. May you find all the comfort that you need in this period. Take care.

P.S. : Dear Heather is talking a lot about the loss of some dear companions in life. I was thinking about this when I was listening to DH the first times, and about the fact that the CD do accompany me, and maybe you, in this part in life where we have, more than before, to say good-bye to relatives and friends. DH is sad and serene at the same time. It is comforting too me.
Last edited by Tchocolatl on Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
Tchocolatl
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Post by Tchocolatl » Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:18 am

To come back to the subject, again, I know some realities are hard. Too hard. Really to... no word like you said Linda. But better to face it and to find the way to avoid this pain in the future than to veil our faces because it hurts, however.

Andrew, this is no justice, I agree. Is there is a justice in this world? It is difficult to do justice without revange. It is difficult to do justice at all. But we can try.

The Holocaust is a very delicate subject, this is why I thank the Jews that have the courage to stand up and say "remimber" and "never again". Life with all its Beauty besides the horrors continues, however, may life continue with less horrors and much more Beauties and happiness. I think that this is why the subject is about, also.
***
"He can love the shape of human beings, the fine and twisted shapes of the heart. It is good to have among us such men, such balancing monsters of love."

Leonard Cohen
Beautiful Losers
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Post by bee » Thu Feb 03, 2005 6:03 am

Dear Elizabeth, sorry for not getting back to you, just can't turn on my computer, something has happened. Till the time I'll get a new one or something will be hard to get online,
take care, love
bee
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