BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

News about Leonard Cohen and his work, press, radio & TV programs etc.
Rodin
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by Rodin » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:04 pm

Best cryptic clue in a pub quiz.
Pop star.
Overcoats in a graveyard.
Misunderstood
cohenadmirer
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by cohenadmirer » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:16 pm

What a great thread .
Not only the link , the download, the worthwhile radio scotland programme ,
but also quite a few posts that really made me laugh :lol:
Thanks to everyone
Leonard's work resonates
Brighton 1979; Dublin , Manchester june 2008; glasgow, manchester Nov 2008; Liverpool july 2009 ; Barcelona Sept 2009 ;marseille, lille september2010: Ghent August 2012;Barcelona October 2012;Montreal x2 November 2012: 2013; Saint John NB April 2013; Brussels June 2013;Manchester August 2013; Leeds , Birmingham September 2013; Amsterdam September 2013
John Etherington
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by John Etherington » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:51 am

cohenadmirer - we aim to please! Perhaps "When You Come To the End of a Lollipop" could replace "Closing Time"? :)
John Etherington
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by John Etherington » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:53 am

comehealing - I was very interested in the quote of Leonard's that you mention - "the connection of language with survival is somehow very clear and acute." Do you by any chance remember whereabouts in the programme this came, and whether it was from recent years or not? (if not, I'll just have to listen to the whole programme again).

The reason this interests me is that it perfectly symbolises Leonard's astrological chart, and I'd like to be able to source it. In an article that I wrote in the late Nineties, which Leonard read, I said "The Sun in Cohen's chart makes only one major aspect to another planet, namely a sextile to Pluto.This explain's Cohen's ability to illuminate the darker areas of human experience and shows that for him, creativity is closely linked to survival. Fundamental to Cohen's chart is the polarity between the Sun in Virgo and the Moon in Pisces. Thus Virgo's qualities of focus and attention to detail, particularly in the realm of the mundane, are polarised by Pisces attunement to the realm of the intangible and the feelings of the collective. It is Cohen's great gift to be able to mediate between these two realms. Whilst Language is usually associated with Mercury [ruler of Virgo] Michael Harding and Gaila Yariv have argued that it has much to do with the Moon. This is because our initial pre-verbal experience of language comes to us directly from our mothers".

By the way, I mention this only in connection with your quote from the programme. I must stress that it is not my intention to start a discussion about astrology,here!

All good things, John E
Last edited by John Etherington on Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Hartmut
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Re: AW: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2

Post by Hartmut » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:26 am

Maarten wrote: so I captured it for future purposes...
Thanks, Maarten.
Vicomte
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by Vicomte » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:30 pm

John Etherington wrote:cohenadmirer - we aim to please! Perhaps "When You Come To the End of a Lollipop" could replace "Closing Time"? :)
Not bad, what a terrific way to end a concert, all of us waving different coloured lollipops above our heads and a lot safer than lighting little green candles.

I did ask Leonard a while back if he might do a couple of Max's during his gigs. As an example I had thought perhaps he ought to do "Tulips from Amsterdam" for any concert in Holland and possibly "You Need Hans" when in Germany. He said he would think about it but the next thing, he was singing "Save the last Dance" for us all.

Wise chap that Mr Cohen, he made the right choice.
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
John Etherington
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by John Etherington » Sat Jan 05, 2013 3:36 pm

Vicomte - I forgot to mention that it is presumably a thinly-disguised song about fellatio. :neutral:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyjtKY-Chy8

Meanwhile, perhaps I could make my fortune by selling lollipops in the shape of unified hearts?
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by John Etherington » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:51 pm

comehealing - I've located the "language and survival quote now" - it's early on in the programme in the familiar story about Leonard burying his father's bow-tie (thanks again for mentioning it).

One thing that I forgot to mention is Sylvie's reference to Leonard not wanting out-takes made available. I can't understand why this is such an issue with him, as there are relatively few (compared to say, Dylan) and most of them are floating around on bootlegs or the internet.

It makes perfect sense to put these on a compilation and benefit financially from it. Furthermore many people would presumably only buy it for occasional reference and completist reasons.
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by Vicomte » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:21 pm

John Etherington wrote:Vicomte - I forgot to mention that it is presumably a thinly-disguised song about fellatio. :neutral:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyjtKY-Chy8

Meanwhile, perhaps I could make my fortune by selling lollipops in the shape of unified hearts?
No doubt about it, John, it will be a big seller for sure and when the tour finishes, one can either put it way until the next tour, or just suck it to a satisfactory ending. I wonder how Max would have sung the infamous line Chelsea Hotel etc? "I remember your lollipop in the Chelsea Hotel, whilst the ice cream vans wait in the street" perhaps?
I guess it all started for me sometime around Christmas 1967 and now, goodness me, it's.........2018 and over fifty years later.
No one ever listens to me. I might as well be a Leonard Cohen record.
Neil from The Young Ones
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hydriot
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by hydriot » Sat Jan 05, 2013 10:45 pm

What an interesting thread ... at long last. I've been getting quite bored with the forum recently.

I agree that there was a distinct change of gear in 2008 when admiration became adoration. My explanation is that when Leonard started touring again, we all found each other, and this amplified our appreciation.

I first heard Leonard in 1969 at a party in Hampstead (yes, Leonard was played at parties, often, as a chill-out number) but the experience was a little different for me: I remember thinking then merely "Oh yes, that's the guy from Hydra".

But as I began to appreciate his work more and more in the following years (especially Songs of Love and Hate when I was at university and desperately in love with someone who did not reciprocate), his music spoke to me in a very personal way, so personal that I did not feel inclined to share him with anybody. I am not a Catholic, yet it seemed to me that listening to him in those days was an experience that was probably very similar to going into the confessional box: a moment of intimate communion with a disembodied voice.

I think a lot of people kept Leonard to themselves, and this is why Leonard himself was dubious in 2008 that a tour would be successful. Certainly, I was amazed when I stumbled across this website and found that so many people share my appreciation. Then when his tour started in 2008, suddenly people were talking about him openly, and we all began to find each other. For example, a neighbour I had known well for eight years suddenly mentioned that she too was a fan: I had had no idea.

Interesting to read that both John Etherington and Vicomte were at the Isle of Wight Festival in 1970. Any others care to admit to being aged hippies like us?

I went to IoW to see primarily not Leonard but Melanie Safka. We found a spot near the stage-left light-tower and remained there permanently, abandoning the tent completely, with only one of the four of us allowed to scavenge for food at any given time for fear of losing our place. I recall the weather being good, because we slept by the light-tower in just sleeping bags brought from the camp-site with no trouble (apart from some moron waking me by standing on my eye: not pleasant).
“If you do have love it's a kind of wound, and if you don't have it it's worse.” - Leonard, July 1988
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Mabeanie1
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by Mabeanie1 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:07 am

hydriot wrote:Interesting to read that both John Etherington and Vicomte were at the Isle of Wight Festival in 1970. Any others care to admit to being aged hippies like us?
I would certainly admit to being a would-be aged hippy, apart from the aged bit anyway, but I was only 16 in 1970 and there was NO WAY my mother would have allowed me to go to the Isle of Wight. I did go to the Bath Festival in 1970. We went down for the day, my boyfriend (the same one as gave me Songs and introduced me to LC) driving us there in his father's Ford Cortina. I can't remember but I suspect I failed to mention to my mother exactly where we were going for our Sunday day out.

Wendy
John Etherington
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by John Etherington » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:10 am

Hi Hydriot,

Thanks for your post...you capture that early period very well. I totally agree that the original experience of Leonard's music was a very private one. It was like a personal form of meditation or catharsis, and as Leonard himself has said "seriousness can be a very agreeable thing". However, I had friends round on the day that "Songs of Love and Hate" was released. I darkened the room, insisted on silence and let the music unfold. The freakiest moment was when I heard the words "where are you Judy, where are you Anne?", because my first proper girlfriend (a nurse) was named Judy, and the girl who came to Leonard's 1970 concert at the Albert Hall with me was named Anne.

I've enjoyed meeting individuals or small groups of people who appreciate Leonard's work, but I've stayed well clear of fandom, because I've never thought of Leonard appreciation as being about some sort of club experience. Having witnessed Dylan fandom, I found it tended to be an exercise in obsessiveness and one-upmanship. The only Leonard collective gatherings I've been to were the Lincoln Event in 1999, the meet-up at Barbican after the Phillip Glass concert, and maybe three pub gatherings (Manchester Opera House, Liverpool 2009, and the Albert Hall where I met yourself and a few others). I was pleased to make some good acquaintances at those events.

At the Isle of Wight, I was central, near the front, just behind the press barrier. I woke to Melanie singing “Mr Tambourine Man” while the morning stars were rising.

All good things, John E
John Etherington
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by John Etherington » Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:17 am

I listened to the programme again to see if my opinion had changed, but my feelings about it were pretty much the same. I think the main problem was that the woman who introduced it used some some pretty dreadful leading lines. After the references to pessism and razor-blades at the beginning, she comes out with lines such as:

"I call him Laughing Len".

"He has come come in for a lot of stick for that voice".

"I felt so depressed when I heard "Death of a Ladies Man" and (to one of the other guys) "You look apalled by it!".

"You don't have to know what he's on about to get something out of it".

"People laugh at us for being fans of 'Laughing Len'".

All of this tended to drag the programme into a tabloid type of direction (and even Sylvie throws in references to "Don't Go Home With Your Hard On" and depression). Also irritating are the Scottish guy badly imitating Leonard's speaking voice, and some unecessary chatty parts while more explanation could be given elsewhere. Some of the sequencing is quite bad too...the Jennifer Warnes part would have been better used near the beginning as justification for Leonard's supposed "depressiveness".

Consider some of the things that were omitted...no references to Layton, Marianne and Hydra, poetry, or the novels. Virtually no reference to the NY era...Nico, Joni etc. No reference to "Recent Songs", the spiritual quest, "Book of Mercy", "The Future", "Ten New Songs", Anjani and "Blue Alert", or Roshi (as a friend) and Balsekar.

The only useful new bit of information I gained (and I may have heard about it before) was Adam's description of Leonard staying in the trailer in France. It would also not have hurt to have at least given a mention to Adam's and the Webb Sisters solo albums. Ultimately, the best parts were where Leonard's own voice was heard.
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leonardthecat
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by leonardthecat » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:13 pm

It was a 55 minute radio programme for Christ's sake! Not a big in depth meaning of life and death discussion. Get over it.
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Mabeanie1
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Re: BBC Radio Scotland - Leonard Cohen Special,1st Jan 2013

Post by Mabeanie1 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:31 pm

leonardthecat wrote:It was a 55 minute radio programme for Christ's sake! Not a big in depth meaning of life and death discussion.
I so need the "Like" button.

Wendy
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