Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV spot

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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby lizzytysh » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:12 am

And [watching] the MAKING of the ad is as ~ if not more ~ amazing than the ad itself. So EASY to understand why Leonard was so willing to work with Arev. I remember seeing the scene in Nuit Blanche, which follows it, too. The ad with Leonard uses his voice and words with maximum effectiveness 8). If I didn't already know, I would sure want to find out who he is, too 8) .
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby Stamatina » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:53 am

I wonder if it will be shown in theatres here. They do show 3D ads in 3D screenings, so I might get to see it (and HEAR it) next time I watch a 3D movie.

I hate watching movies in 3D (it's really annoying, having to wear those glasses above my own), but I might make an exception soon... :)
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby lightasabreeze » Fri Oct 14, 2011 12:35 pm

I too think it is a work of art and done brilliantly. I have always thought that well known artists are degrading themselves by advertising, but this is rather different. It is not as though leonard is holding up a can of anything in our faces saying "buy". This is just a gentle voice over, which blends perfectly, who else could speak in such a mesmerising way. Who knows, those unfortunate souls who seem never to have heard of Leonard, will start to say, Who is the man with the beautiful sexy voice??
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby Kenadian » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:49 pm

MarieM wrote:Leonard recites a poem. Leonard records that recitation. Sony puts that recitation on a record and sells it to me for X amount of money. Sony gets rich. This is good.
Who would pay for a 60 second recording? And if Sony gets rich as a result so does Leonard, through his art. He did it for the music/poetry and the fans perhaps?
MarieM wrote:Leonard recites a poem. Leonard records that recitation. Sony puts that recitation in a commercial and gives it to me for FREE. Sony gets rich. This is offensive.
Presumably Leonard got paid once to shill. Sony keeps getting rich using it over and over and selling more stuff as a result.
MarieM wrote:The distinction makes no sense. Making a record is and always was a commercial enterprise. There were Sony commercials selling Live In London. There were AEG commercials advertising Leonard's concerts. No one objected then. The only distinction is that on a personal level you want to buy the album, attend the concert, and you are willing to pay the money.
The distinction is that Leonard and Sony both make money from the art. Every time you buy the cd/dvd/concert ticket that is what happens. Leonard does not get paid when you buy a TV, unless he negotiated that for the commercial.
MarieM wrote:You don't want Sony's 3-D TV. Fine, but others might and in a free society, they are entitled to learn about it and buy it. Further, who are we to dictate how Leonard earns his money, to suggest that his work can only appear in a commercial for a charity. Do I tell you that you can only earn your money working in a not for profit enterprise?
Dictate? That was an opinion! And in a free society, one is entitled to an opinion. It is clear that Morgan didn't say HOW Leonard could earn his money, she only put forth an opinion for a more palatable way for her. And I happen to agree.
MarieM wrote:Finally, a world-wide, free-to-all beautiful and artistic rendering of Leonard's work is the biggest self-promotion campaign ever. How many people will be hearing Leonard's poetry for the first time and become fans for life?
Yea, but you need to have Sony TV or Sony laptop to see it :-)
MarieM wrote:As I understand it Leonard participated in this project because he appreciated the artistry of director Arev Manoukian and his team. By participating he and Arev could insure that art was the priority. It is a one minute commercial with 4 seconds of branding limited to the end of the piece. And we get it for FREE. Really, what is there to complain about?
FREE??? The whole point of an advertisement is to take our money. It's not like Sony went, "Oh hey, I know, let's give LC's fans a present, and make beautiful art, and a recording just because we love them! And heck if we happen to sell a few TVs good on us!" The entire purpose of an advertisement is to be paid back many times over by selling their product. Now if they gave a book of Leonard's poetry or CD with every TV sold...

Tom Waits turned down Frito-Lay so they used an impersonator. He sued and he won!
Elvis Costello turned down a boatload of money when This message has been classified as spam and will be deleted by the moderators wanted to use "Pump it Up' for their pump shoes.
Neil Young even covers up the logos on the signage in the arena stadium (or at least he used to).
I like these guys and would not like it if they sold out some day.

Leonard Cohen is a very important part of my life and always will be. I disagree with the decision of shilling for a giant corporation. That is not an attempt to dictate anything to anyone. Nor is it an attempt to try and limit this 'free society'. It is just an opinion.

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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby Kenadian » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:52 pm

Kenadian wrote:Elvis Costello turned down a boatload of money when This message has been classified as spam and will be deleted by the moderators wanted to use "Pump it Up' for their pump shoes.
I'm pretty sure I typed N I K E :-)
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby kalinowt » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:21 am

Hi Ken (adian)

I agree people making comments on this forum shouldn't slag others for expressing their opinion. Discussion and disagreement are part of the normal discourse of any society. But what I don't understand is what everybody is getting so charged up about. Is Leonard Cohen a saint? Is he is more saintly than any other musical performer or entertainer out there? He is special, but he's human like the rest of us. If he wants to make a commercial for Sony, he can make a commercial. Nobody owns Mr. Cohen's art except Leonard. He's inordinately generous with allowing fans to cover and reproduce his work, or quote his work, without too many quibbles. I've read both left and right wing commentators in the States quoting from Anthem, Everybody Knows and Democracy extensively lately. He doesn't get paid for that. All the You-tube videos people have been enjoying from his recent world tour and extensively sharing; he doesn't get paid for that either. Sony and Cohen have a longstanding business relationship that works for both of them otherwise Cohen wouldn't have agreed to do the project. Shill? What's that anyway? We are a society full of shills; that's the world today. If people don't like it they should organize and go out and change the world. Being a writer myself, I wouldn't blame Leonard Cohen for making a buck or two on his own voice, words and talent. The paychecks are awful small down here, and a long time coming, when you work in the medium of words for a living. Especially when you do so dilligently and honestly for so many years as Leonard has done.

Perhaps this came out more cynical than I intended. LOL. Here I am again speaking out against people getting worked up, and here I go too. I'm going to go get some coffee now. I've vented enough spleen for one day.

Kalinowt
Kenadian wrote:
MarieM wrote:Leonard recites a poem. Leonard records that recitation. Sony puts that recitation on a record and sells it to me for X amount of money. Sony gets rich. This is good.
Who would pay for a 60 second recording? And if Sony gets rich as a result so does Leonard, through his art. He did it for the music/poetry and the fans perhaps?
MarieM wrote:Leonard recites a poem. Leonard records that recitation. Sony puts that recitation in a commercial and gives it to me for FREE. Sony gets rich. This is offensive.
Presumably Leonard got paid once to shill. Sony keeps getting rich using it over and over and selling more stuff as a result.
MarieM wrote:The distinction makes no sense. Making a record is and always was a commercial enterprise. There were Sony commercials selling Live In London. There were AEG commercials advertising Leonard's concerts. No one objected then. The only distinction is that on a personal level you want to buy the album, attend the concert, and you are willing to pay the money.
The distinction is that Leonard and Sony both make money from the art. Every time you buy the cd/dvd/concert ticket that is what happens. Leonard does not get paid when you buy a TV, unless he negotiated that for the commercial.
MarieM wrote:You don't want Sony's 3-D TV. Fine, but others might and in a free society, they are entitled to learn about it and buy it. Further, who are we to dictate how Leonard earns his money, to suggest that his work can only appear in a commercial for a charity. Do I tell you that you can only earn your money working in a not for profit enterprise?
Dictate? That was an opinion! And in a free society, one is entitled to an opinion. It is clear that Morgan didn't say HOW Leonard could earn his money, she only put forth an opinion for a more palatable way for her. And I happen to agree.
MarieM wrote:Finally, a world-wide, free-to-all beautiful and artistic rendering of Leonard's work is the biggest self-promotion campaign ever. How many people will be hearing Leonard's poetry for the first time and become fans for life?
Yea, but you need to have Sony TV or Sony laptop to see it :-)
MarieM wrote:As I understand it Leonard participated in this project because he appreciated the artistry of director Arev Manoukian and his team. By participating he and Arev could insure that art was the priority. It is a one minute commercial with 4 seconds of branding limited to the end of the piece. And we get it for FREE. Really, what is there to complain about?
FREE??? The whole point of an advertisement is to take our money. It's not like Sony went, "Oh hey, I know, let's give LC's fans a present, and make beautiful art, and a recording just because we love them! And heck if we happen to sell a few TVs good on us!" The entire purpose of an advertisement is to be paid back many times over by selling their product. Now if they gave a book of Leonard's poetry or CD with every TV sold...

Tom Waits turned down Frito-Lay so they used an impersonator. He sued and he won!
Elvis Costello turned down a boatload of money when This message has been classified as spam and will be deleted by the moderators wanted to use "Pump it Up' for their pump shoes.
Neil Young even covers up the logos on the signage in the arena stadium (or at least he used to).
I like these guys and would not like it if they sold out some day.

Leonard Cohen is a very important part of my life and always will be. I disagree with the decision of shilling for a giant corporation. That is not an attempt to dictate anything to anyone. Nor is it an attempt to try and limit this 'free society'. It is just an opinion.

Cheers,
Ken(adian)
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby johnny7moons » Sat Oct 15, 2011 12:36 pm

This makes me sad.

"Here's the deal, folks. You do a commercial - you're off the artistic roll call, forever. End of story. Okay? You're another whore at the captialist gang bang and if you do a commercial, there's a price on your head. Everything you say is suspect and every word that comes out of your mouth is now like a turd falling into my drink." - Bill Hicks
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby hadley » Sat Oct 15, 2011 1:49 pm

To people getting upset about this........ How do we know he's even being paid for it or that he isn't giving the money to charity? People are so quick to judge. It's not like he's selling guns or anything, or even telling people to go out and buy sony stuff. Who here actually feels like getting a new TV now anyway?! All he did was to contribute a few beautiful lines to what is at least a tasteful project. I assume noone was hurt during the making of the ad :lol: Reminds me of the fuss when Dylan appeared in a lingerie advert with Lovesick playing in the background, I always thought they should have used Light As The Breeze instead ;-)

Anyway as far as I'm concerned after all the moments of joy, grace, comfort and wisdom Leonard has brought us over the years he could probably commit a good few murders now and still qualify for heaven (were there such a place) ;)

Stop moaning and give the guy a break!!
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby lizzytysh » Sat Oct 15, 2011 3:47 pm

DAAAAaaaaaaaaaang. "Here's to the few who forgive what you do, and the fewer who don't even care." And as though anything has even occurred HERE that even remotely relates to a need for forgiveness!

The distinctions Marie has made in her posting absolutely hold up from my perspective.

Leonard chose to participate in an exquisite creation of Arev's made even moreso by the inclusion of Leonard's voice and words, the majority of which were written long ago and spoken many times since. Virtually, if not literally... none of us here would even be aware of Leonard, much less heard or seen him, were it not for some commercial endeavour in which he participated. Now, however, some 'property exchange' ["You're ours now"] has taken place... and 'our' approval is required for him to continue in other endeavours?

I wholly defend people's rights to express their complaints. What I can't defend is their presumptuousness that led to their complaints in the first place.

Bill Hicks chose his drink based on which ads to which he apparently wholly subscribed?

Well, hopefully, those who are self-righteously, on 'behalf' of Leonard's integrity, of course ;-) , will carry their indignation into the marketplace where Leonard has been being bought and sold, and for the sake of their own 'integrity,' bypass attending any of his likely upcoming commercially-driven concerts... thereby, freeing up a seat to give some newcomers the opportunity to see him for the first time.


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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby MaryB » Sat Oct 15, 2011 7:41 pm

With LC's voice and words, this commercial becomes perfection.
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby holydove » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:15 pm

It was very generous of Leonard to lend his incomparable voice & words to this commercial, which was quite an artistic endeavor, & therefore a very wise & understandable choice on his part. And if he received some money for it, I'm very happy for him.

Leonard Cohen's art/music/poetry is supremely beautiful no matter where he chooses to put it. And IMHO, anything that is touched by Leonard's art or integrity is uplifted by it, & there is nothing that could ever taint the beauty & brilliance which he so generously shares with this twisted world.

And about this distinction that people keep making between "saints" & "people" (e.g., "Leonard is a person, not a saint"), I thought this might be worth mentioning: Saints are people. I've never heard of a saint that wasn't a person, have you? In fact, from my tiny perspective/understanding, one thing that makes a person a saint is his/her willingness & ability to completely accept & embrace every part of his/her humanness, & therefore, they are able to accept & embrace every part of everyone else's humanness.
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby RainDog1980 » Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:24 pm

There are always some who feel "their" artist is above being in a large commercial endeavor, particularly those who have managed success without it.

I am not one of those people, because this is not the first time his music has been used in film or television. But here is some perspective: "Natural Born Killers" has "Waiting For the Miracle" open the movie. When I heard it, I froze me in my seat. I HAD to know where that voice was coming from.

Naturally, I found out it was Leonard. Since then, I have bought all of his albums, attended two concerts, and continue to follow him and plan to attend more and buy his albums. So, you can't say he won't make money from this- it is self promotion. With the ease of finding information, people can learn who the voice is, and head over to itunes and whatever else, and discover the history like I did.
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby kalinowt » Sat Oct 15, 2011 10:53 pm

Hi Holy dove,

Of course saints were human, but they are also represent a super-humanly high standard of morality, sacrifice and ethics. I would never think of Leonard Cohen that way. Good point though!
holydove wrote:It was very generous of Leonard to lend his incomparable voice & words to this commercial, which was quite an artistic endeavor, & therefore a very wise & understandable choice on his part. And if he received some money for it, I'm very happy for him.

Leonard Cohen's art/music/poetry is supremely beautiful no matter where he chooses to put it. And IMHO, anything that is touched by Leonard's art or integrity is uplifted by it, & there is nothing that could ever taint the beauty & brilliance which he so generously shares with this twisted world.

And about this distinction that people keep making between "saints" & "people" (e.g., "Leonard is a person, not a saint"), I thought this might be worth mentioning: Saints are people. I've never heard of a saint that wasn't a person, have you? In fact, from my tiny perspective/understanding, one thing that makes a person a saint is his/her willingness & ability to completely accept & embrace every part of his/her humanness, & therefore, they are able to accept & embrace every part of everyone else's humanness.
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby st theresa1 » Sun Oct 16, 2011 5:36 am

hmmm--suppose for the sake of argument that someone like Leonard found himself elevated to the level of a spiritual leader, although he himself
insisted time and again that he was not and had no wish to be so perceived. Suppose again for the sake of argument that all the human foibles that he manifested with (eg weakness for wine, women and song) were not enough to convince those who put him up so high of his less than transcendant state. Suppose that this person like Leonard, like so many of us, was capable of subterfuge. I am not talking about appearing different than he is here, but about fooling himself even about who he is. What better way to convince the maddening devotees of his humanity than by doing something that he knew would be questioned even by his most devoted followers. Shilling for _______fill in the blank. I am not saying that he was aware of this reason. Like many another, he might have perceived his acceptance of this work as meeting an altogether different purpose than what anyone has any idea of. He like so many others might be quite shocked to see the motivations that are being attibuted to him. Money, pride, ignorance, fear, etc etc. While I don't know what his purpose was, I do feel that all he has done and continues to do, have given me so much over the years, that I can allow for this---as I would for another woman, man or glass of wine, should he choose to imbibe.
One thing Leonard's poetry has done over the years has been to reach the common man (or woman). He is a poet of modern times, like perhaps Shakespeare was in his time, a poet who has chosen to perform on the stage and produce his songs. His poetry has not sat on dusty bookshelves or been shared only among a select few. He has brought it to the world stage. Why not a commercial is what I am asking now?
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Re: Leonard recites That is What I Heard You Say in new TV s

Postby lizzytysh » Sun Oct 16, 2011 2:16 pm

Right on, all of you who followed my posting with your own.
Plain and simple, a beautiful and artistic project he became involved with and that I enjoy watching and listening to... and, hopefully, many more will discover him as a result of it. I love the additional things you said, holydove.
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